Why Elite: Dangerous is a PvP game at heart

Globusdiablo

Globusdiablo
By its very design.

There are no real mechanics in place to support any kind of PvE mode. The Group and Solo modes are intended for friends or individuals who don't enjoy random PvP. There are no real consequences to killing another player. By design.

This game has been out quite some time now. No crime and punishment. No PvE mode. Simples. The way FD made the game.

Just because FD haven't come out publicly and said "Elite: Dangerous is intended to be a PvP game", doesn't mean it isn't so.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all! :) [up]




 

Genar-Hofoen

Genar-Hofoen
Globusdiablo said:
By its very design.

There are no real mechanics in place to support any kind of PvE mode. The Group and Solo modes are intended for friends or individuals who don't enjoy random PvP. There are no real consequences to killing another player. By design.

This game has been out quite some time now. No crime and punishment. No PvE mode. Simples. The way FD made the game.

Just because FD haven't come out publicly and said "Elite: Dangerous is intended to be a PvP game", doesn't mean it isn't so.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all! :) [up]




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Someone's had too much of the xmas spirits already I see XD

Have a cool Yule ;)
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Globusdiablo said:
By its very design.

There are no real mechanics in place to support any kind of PvE mode. The Group and Solo modes are intended for friends or individuals who don't enjoy random PvP. There are no real consequences to killing another player. By design.

This game has been out quite some time now. No crime and punishment. No PvE mode. Simples. The way FD made the game.

Just because FD haven't come out publicly and said "Elite: Dangerous is intended to be a PvP game", doesn't mean it isn't so.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all! :) [up]
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.... apart from the fact that Solo is pure PvE (with the shared galaxy state offering indirect PvP, of course).

Merry Christmas to you too! :D
 

verminstar

Banned
verminstar
Globusdiablo said:
By its very design.

There are no real mechanics in place to support any kind of PvE mode. The Group and Solo modes are intended for friends or individuals who don't enjoy random PvP. There are no real consequences to killing another player. By design.

This game has been out quite some time now. No crime and punishment. No PvE mode. Simples. The way FD made the game.

Just because FD haven't come out publicly and said "Elite: Dangerous is intended to be a PvP game", doesn't mean it isn't so.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all! :) [up]




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Solo mode is not designed fer friends to play together...quite the contrary actually. Solo mode is pve mode...same as open is pvp mode. Theres little benefit in adding a crime and punishment system that will affect open players the most and does nothing fer solo and group. If solo and group combined have more players than open, then its effectively creating content fer a minority.

While this may not be factually correct, it would actually make sense. The alternative is they dont care or dont know...or both.
 

Spiridon

Spiridon
verminstar said:
Solo mode is not designed fer friends to play together...quite the contrary actually. Solo mode is pve mode...same as open is pvp mode. Theres little benefit in adding a crime and punishment system that will affect open players the most and does nothing fer solo and group. If solo and group combined have more players than open, then its effectively creating content fer a minority.

While this may not be factually correct, it would actually make sense. The alternative is they dont care or dont know...or both.
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I would never say they don't care for their product. Especially wouldn't say they don't know. We must take for granted both of those are "yes".

Then it comes down to creating content for minority.
 

Deleted member 38366

D
If ELITE Dangerous was a PvP Game at heart...

- we wouldn't have any Modes to choose from, only Open Play
- we wouldn't have 400 Billion Systems, but instead no more than a few thousand (very similar to the restricted Alpha/Beta Cylinder in the very early days)

But since it isn't ("Blaze your own Trail" instead of "Blast other people's Trails"),
they're slowly (over 2 years too late but nonetheless) recognizing the devastating effects of lacking a Crime & Punishment System in Open and running ELITE : Toxic instead.

Either way, we'll see what comes from all that in 2017 :)
 
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biohazard15

B
ED was never, ever designed as PVP-focused game.
There is absolutely no reward for participating in PVP. All the available activities (trading, exploring, bounty hunting etc) are purely PVE.
 

Globusdiablo

Globusdiablo
FalconFly said:
...they're slowly (over 2 years too late but nonetheless) recognizing the devastating effects of lacking a Crime & Punishment System in Open and running ELITE : Toxic instead...
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Who have you been talking to? I've seen or heard nothing to support that notion.

biohazard15 said:
ED was never, ever designed as PVP-focused game.
There is absolutely no reward for participating in PVP. All the available activities (trading, exploring, bounty hunting etc) are purely PVE.
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Please. What are the real rewards for PvP? There are only two. The bragging rights and the salty tears. Any true PvPer knows this.
 
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verminstar

Banned
verminstar
Spiridon said:
I would never say they don't care for their product. Especially wouldn't say they don't know. We must take for granted both of those are "yes".

Then it comes down to creating content for minority.
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Time will tell...so far they dont appear to be doing very much to change the status quo, and both sides of the coin now have entrenched points of view with zero chance of a universally agreed compromise. The only ones with the ability to break the deadlock appear to be sitting on their hands, so maybe this is intended?

But time will tell the tale.
 

SirAdelaide

SirAdelaide
If you need to argue the point (that it's a PvP game), then you've got a pretty weak position. If it were simply a PvP game, everyone would see that and there'd be no argument.

I'd say that there is a lot more evidence that it is an exploration game than a fighting game.

How many of the community screen shots shared by FD in newsletters have been of ships fighting, and how many are of ships in beautiful locations? So FD clearly value and promote exploration more than fighting.

A new bubble made: for explorers not fighters.

Passenger missions added, with tourists that want to explore.

CQC / Arena made, to try and remove PvP from the main game.

Need I go on?
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Globusdiablo said:
Please. What are the real rewards for PvP? There are only two. The bragging rights and the salty tears. Any true PvPer knows this.
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Every true PvPer I've ever talked to has said that the rewards of PvP is a good game against a challenging opponent.

Some may enjoy the bragging rights, but if you attack another player for the "salty tears," then you're engaging in player-killing, which is something very different from PvP.
 
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Globusdiablo

Globusdiablo
Darkfyre99 said:
Every true PvPer I've ever talked to has said that the rewards of PvP is a good game against a challenging opponent.

Some may enjoy the bragging rights, but if you attack another player for the "salty tears," then you're engaging in player-killing, which is something very different from PvP.
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I disagree. Name a PvP game based on an equal challenge. PvP is about getting the upper hand and exploiting it.

What PvP games do you play? Apart from Elite: Dangerous in Open of course. :)
 

Connor Caple

Connor Caple
So, all the PvE players are actually being griefed and this system was never put in place.

(From the Kickstarter page https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous FAQ Section)

How do we plan to address PvP (player vs player) “griefing”?

An obvious danger is an advanced player with a big well-armed ship in a busy system spends their time just picking off beginners, for fun.

To understand how this will be stopped requires a little bit of understanding how real player ships will be treated slightly differently to non-player ships. Players will automatically be part of a “Pilot’s Federation” and will be identified as such, together with their ranking and name. Bounties are paid by this Federation – something that is therefore much higher for those that kill other Federation members. It will be balanced so that this cannot be used as an exploit (so a beginner killing a beginner is taken less seriously than an Elite pilot killing a beginner – it will be based on the ranking difference).

There are four separate ways we will address this:

1. The offender will very quickly get a serious price on their head (bounty) and criminal record. That price on their head will attract bounty hunters.

2. Local police or military will respond very quickly and strongly to them.

3. It will be legitimate for other players to attack them for the attractive bounty without attracting a bounty for themselves, as once there is a bounty on their head they are officially a pirate and ‘free game’ for everyone.

4. If enough players complain about the offender's behaviour in a certain time, then they will be banned from this group.

Last updated: Wed, Nov 14 2012 12:52 PM +00:00
 
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Globusdiablo

Globusdiablo
Connor Caple said:
So, all the PvE players are actually being griefed and this system was never put in place.

(From the Kickstarter page https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous FAQ Section)

How do we plan to address PvP (player vs player) “griefing”?

An obvious danger is an advanced player with a big well-armed ship in a busy system spends their time just picking off beginners, for fun.

To understand how this will be stopped requires a little bit of understanding how real player ships will be treated slightly differently to non-player ships. Players will automatically be part of a “Pilot’s Federation” and will be identified as such, together with their ranking and name. Bounties are paid by this Federation – something that is therefore much higher for those that kill other Federation members. It will be balanced so that this cannot be used as an exploit (so a beginner killing a beginner is taken less seriously than an Elite pilot killing a beginner – it will be based on the ranking difference).

There are four separate ways we will address this:

1. The offender will very quickly get a serious price on their head (bounty) and criminal record. That price on their head will attract bounty hunters.

2. Local police or military will respond very quickly and strongly to them.

3. It will be legitimate for other players to attack them for the attractive bounty without attracting a bounty for themselves, as once there is a bounty on their head they are officially a pirate and ‘free game’ for everyone.

4. If enough players complain about the offender's behaviour in a certain time, then they will be banned from this group.

Last updated: Wed, Nov 14 2012 12:52 PM +00:00
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None of which is implemented in the game. Let's talk facts shall we? :)
 

Flavourless

Flavourless
I assume OP is an attempt at wry Christmas humour [up]
Otherwise it is complete fantasy and with less actual content than the game itself. PvP is possible in ED, but is almost completely insignificant.
 
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