Why FSS mode must stay

[Darkfyre99]

I’m a huge fan of the FSS as well. My favorite part about it is that while it may be used like a “minigame,” it’s also a flexible information gathering tool in its own right. This makes it possible to deduce a lot about any particular body within a system without having to actually resolve it.

Can it be improved? Certainly. There are some persistent VR bugs that still haven’t been fixed, we have to throttle down to use it, which eliminates some potential strategies to use the FSS, and we need a roll function as well. I also wouldn’t mind some optional modules that could enhance or supplement FSS functionality, including one that would restore some of that old ADS functionality for those who actually liked that soul sucking monstrosity kind of thing.

But for an entry level exploration tool, Frontier did a fantastic job. [up]

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

Allow FSD charging in FSS mode and also allow mode to activate with full throttle and it will be wonderful


if you crash while doing the above or overheat well... thats your own fault - we don't need a nanny out in space.

 

[SMcA]

I’m a huge fan of the FSS as well. My favorite part about it is that while it may be used like a “minigame,” it’s also a flexible information gathering tool in its own right. This makes it possible to deduce a lot about any particular body within a system without having to actually resolve it.

Exactly! And a good tool it is too.

 

[JustJon]

I like the FSS, but it does need a couple of tweaks
- the speed at which geological sites resolve is way too long
- the requirement to set throttle to zero before activating the FSS needs to be removed (I can't set a macro to do it as I'm on Xbox.) This is disruptive to the flow of the gameplay. I can enter the sysmap at full throttle and hope I don't crash into anything, why not the FSS?

In theory great in practice not so - when I flick into the system map and back out it is maybe for 5/10 seconds

But going into the FSS I am going to be in it for at least a minute if not more.

And the only thing I am going to be doing while in the FSS is getting further and further away from everything - so lets say the two inner most planets have geo sites - by the time I have scanned the system etc I am now 4k ls from the primary - ok potentially I may be near that gas giant which is 4k from the primary - potentially I am 8k away on the other side of the system!

It would be useful just to be able to flick into the FSS to see if there is anything but icy bodies/rocky worlds but best option is after your honk and while still scooping, throttle back flick into the FSS and check for anything interesting - it there is then go back move a few ls from the star throttle back n scan away - if I see nothing then target next jump accelerate and engage!

 

[SMcA]

Allow FSD charging in FSS mode and also allow mode to activate with full throttle and it will be wonderful


if you crash while doing the above or overheat well... thats your own fault - we don't need a nanny out in space.

If instead of throttling down you create a macro that sets your throttle to zero then goes into FSS. When you exit the macro your throttle via your HOTAS will be at 100% and your velocity should be > 30 m/s. It is probably just phycological but it feels better than actually throttling down manually.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I find it more odd to look at a frequency band than the actual thing, kind of like the difference between these two:

I rather have both and I have yet to see a compelling reason why it's not possible to do so.

You do know that you can do both. Nothing is stopping you from flying over to something you want to take a closer look at and surface probe it if you so wish.

In the old way you discovered everything in the system with a 5 second press of a button. You didn't ever need to do anything. Now it's interactive and you also have a reason to go to planets to probe them (POIs). There is not much reason to go to non-landable planets and there wasn't before this update. The main reason was for tags and credits and that hasn't changed.

For things like odd orbits, well that gameplay is still available too. The only thing that is missing it the travel extreme effiiciency type of exploration where someone would jump, fuelscoop while honking and start up their FSD drive while looking at the system map. Even I wasn't that extreme when I was trying to get somewhere fast.

That is why I would like this to happen when you honk:

So that when we honk, we can have a rough idea of what is in the system which will help the travel extreme efficiency type explorers. You wouldn't have to enter the FSS to get a rough idea of what is in a system it will be right there in analysis mode and it would give that mode a purpose too. If you like what you see with the amount of bodies and the type of bodies you will want to discover more about that system, time to use the FSS and then fly to what you want to explore more of, I think that would fix a lot of the issues for some.

Obviously there are some that just don't like the gameplay for some reason, even though its pretty much the same kind of gameplay we get in every game, point, move and click or a mixture of them. Every new idea has had pretty much the same gameplay, it would just be dressed up in a different graphical representation which some will like and others will not.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

If instead of throttling down you create a macro that sets your throttle to zero then goes into FSS. When you exit the macro your throttle via your HOTAS will be at 100% and your velocity should be > 30 m/s. It is probably just phycological but it feels better than actually throttling down manually.

the purpose is to save time, marcos dont do that as you would have to move beyond the star to fully scan the system, which you have to do before opening the FSS anyway.

Xbox here but you can throttle zero and open FSS using the same button binding

what im talking about is the ability to;

- charge the FSD
- fuel scoop
- move away from the star

^^ all while in the FSS that would save ~15 seconds per jump, or ~600 LY per hour which is quite significant whilst still giving the CMDR a brief overview of the system.

The other workaround is to display the signals on the HUD like Max factor shows the image of, but that could start to look a little messy on an already cluttered HUD with duplicate and triplicate info displayed.

if it were on the Hud they really need to make it user friendly and quick to read and colour code it

equally a colour code system on scanned planet would be nice

Either way for me is an acceptable solution, but the decision making process currently is WAY WAY to slow on weather a system is worth anything (both financially and from an aesthetic point of view)

 

[Para Handy]

I really don't understand the complaint that the FSS screen "takes you out of the cockpit" - the system map takes you out of the cockpit too so why the angst about the FSS doing so?

Yes the minimal throttle, supercruise only, body's features scan time and lack of surface info other than volcanism away from the zoomed view are annoyances but overall the FSS is really enjoyable as far as I am concerned.

Now I find myself doing complete system scans and that gets rid of the horrible OCD / "not really exploring" taste of the old system where I would not travel long distances to secondary (etc) stars nor spend the time on DSS for every moon. It feels now that I am actually producing a data set that adds to the knowledge of the game's galaxy.

(Admittedly I could produce a more complete data set if I mapped every body but the travel-time aspect puts me off for large systems.)

 

[Gut Rumble]

All the fss has done is added a time sink to the start and one at the end , Enter system , plays blue Blob game ( 1st time sink ) to populate map which the ` honk ` used to do , then fly to a planet and play Missile Command to surface scan it ( 2nd time sink ) you have to get so close to planet that it takes ages to pull away again lol . to me is just rubbish and has taken the fun out of exploration.

 

[sorcer3r]

The FSS can stay - as long as I can hire 1-2 imperial slaves which could do this "job" for me.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

All the fss has done is added a time sink to the start and one at the end , Enter system , plays blue Blob game ( 1st time sink ) to populate map which the ` honk ` used to do , then fly to a planet and play Missile Command to surface scan it ( 2nd time sink ) you have to get so close to planet that it takes ages to pull away again lol . to me is just rubbish and has taken the fun out of exploration.

Gameplay = Time sink. Thats what happens. The only time you call it a time sink is when its gameplay you are not that interested in or dislike.

 

[JustJon]

I play the game to pass the time.

Also given that you seem to be scanning the EM spectrum not sure it would work so well if you were actually moving at above c.... (from a realism perspective!!!)

 

[WR3ND]

Feel free to use it for me.

In general I find even having to resort to using parallax to be more compelling and engaging.

But sure, I don't have a problem with it. I'd just prefer other options to be able to explore the cosmos in first-person while piloting my ships, or on rare occasions, SRVs.

Not particularly interested in the FSS nor DSS mini-games, and to be perfectly honestest, they seem pretty silly. But hey, I like pretending to explorer the cosmos in a sci-fi spaceship video game in my free time, and before that in the astronomy space sim Celestia, so to each their own.

Cheers.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

You do know that you can do both. Nothing is stopping you from flying over to something you want to take a closer look at and surface probe it if you so wish.

Except the fact that doing such thing would be extremely time consuming and the fact that I would not know where the body in question is.

In the old way you discovered everything in the system with a 5 second press of a button. You didn't ever need to do anything.

Right, now I have to do something boring everytime.

Now it's interactive and you also have a reason to go to planets to probe them (POIs). There is not much reason to go to non-landable planets and there wasn't before this update. The main reason was for tags and credits and that hasn't changed.

For things like odd orbits, well that gameplay is still available too.

For that I need to first look at the spectrum before looking at the actual thing.

The only thing that is missing it the travel extreme effiiciency type of exploration where someone would jump, fuelscoop while honking and start up their FSD drive while looking at the system map. Even I wasn't that extreme when I was trying to get somewhere fast.

That's on you, I and many others adopted such style as we figured there was no benefit in fooling around unremarkable systems.

So that when we honk, we can have a rough idea of what is in the system which will help the travel extreme efficiency type explorers. You wouldn't have to enter the FSS to get a rough idea of what is in a system it will be right there in analysis mode and it would give that mode a purpose too. If you like what you see with the amount of bodies and the type of bodies you will want to discover more about that system, time to use the FSS and then fly to what you want to explore more of, I think that would fix a lot of the issues for some.

In short, you want to introduce the FSS spectrum in the cockpit itself? That's a good idea, however, I doubt that'd fix anything, you are just dividing the current routine and transfering it to a different HUD.

Obviously there are some that just don't like the gameplay for some reason, even though its pretty much the same kind of gameplay we get in every game, point, move and click or a mixture of them. Every new idea has had pretty much the same gameplay, it would just be dressed up in a different graphical representation which some will like and others will not.

Ermmm no, sorry but no. I already posted many examples of games that prove you wrong in another thread.

 

[Stewart_]

With the FSS I can certainly stay out in the black for longer. Pre-FSS I would soon start to get space madness.

FSS is far from perfect ( no skill required, takes user away from cockpit ), but better than what was there before - such as being able to find discoveries, POI, and faster than travelling to individual planets in order to perform [non surface] scan.

 

[marx]

First off, let me say that this thread took an already silly title (from the other one) and made it even more silly. Of course the FSS will stay, for better or for worse. Frontier aren't going to throw out the name, even if they'll eventually end up completely reworking it. (Which I strongly doubt.)

I really don't understand the complaint that the FSS screen "takes you out of the cockpit" - the system map takes you out of the cockpit too so why the angst about the FSS doing so?

Oh, that's easy. The system map opened a window inside your cockpit. It still looked the same as the galaxy, you didn't need to spend a lot of time fiddling with it. You still had to fly your ship.

Meanwhile, the FSS takes you into a separate view, where you operate a turret. The controls feel different not simply because they are different, but because you're operating a turret, not flying your ship. One of the very first requests after the beta went live was to at least add an optional roll to the FSS controls, but Frontier never did that.

In addition, the FSS takes you out of the galaxy as well, so to speak. You get a blue overlay with a grid(!) slapped on top of the visuals, not to mention all the, ahem, effects. Instead of looking at a graphical representation of the system which showed exactly how the planets looked, the FSS has you looking at a "disguised" barcode strip first and foremost. Only once you scan a body do you get to take a look at how it might look. On the system map, you had to learn to recognise bodies by visuals and perhaps sound: on the FSS, you need to learn to memorise bar positions.
All this can be said to take you out of the cockpit as well, because before, you always looked at a truer representation of the galaxy. Now you switch between the real view and one that's off.

Of course, how much this all bothers a person varies from one to another. But I think we can all agree that there's plenty of room for improvement.


As for the comments about multicrew... You know, I'd be more than happy to host Commanders who'd use the FSS with me, or better yet, for me. But in practice, that doesn't work because of two things. First, next to nobody who already knows what operating the FSS entails will queue up for multicrew. Second, crew members don't get rewarded, with anything. Reminds me of this comic strip.
NPC crew to help operate your FSS like they do your SLF would be pretty good though. Especially if they sat next to you, so there'd be somebody in those empty chairs. Before anyone complains about automatic exploration: crew are entirely optional, and can't even be "fitted" on every ship.

 

[biot]

With the FSS I can certainly stay out in the black for longer. Pre-FSS I would soon start to get space madness.

FSS is far from perfect ( no skill required, takes user away from cockpit ), but better than what was there before - such as being able to find discoveries, POI, and faster than travelling to individual planets in order to perform [non surface] scan.

The above sums it up perfectly for me. In the last 3 weeks of DWE2 I have visited and scanned more systems outside the bubble than I have in the previous 3 years using the ADS. I don't say this because I had a particular dislike of the old way of doing it, but it was hard (for me) to sustain the activity for any appreciable length of time. I don't feel that with the FSS yet ... that may come in time but already my own experience is that I have FSS-ed more than I have ADS-ed. I feel the new process rewards my time invested better than the old one (not talking about credits here, I'm talking about recreational value).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Except the fact that doing such thing would be extremely time consuming and the fact that I would not know where the body in question is.

You use the FSS to find the object in question and then you fly to it to have a look.

Right, now I have to do something boring everytime.

I find discovering things myself much more interesting then having something else do it for me. But everyone is different.

For that I need to first look at the spectrum before looking at the actual thing.

You got it in one.

That's on you, I and many others adopted such style as we figured there was no benefit in fooling around unremarkable systems.

Yup, I have nothing against that. But if atmospheric planets become a thing then there may not be many unremarkable systems anymore. Just glancing at a system map won't tell that to you.

In short, you want to introduce the FSS spectrum in the cockpit itself? That's a good idea, however, I doubt that'd fix anything, you are just dividing the current routine and transfering it to a different HUD.

Yes which would be better for some types of explorers. Isn't that a good thing?

Ermmm no, sorry but no. I already posted many examples of games that prove you wrong in another thread.

Errmmm, yes I saw that post and no you didn't prove anything. In fact everything you wrote down was a mixture of move, point and click. Do you know why its a mixture of those, because you literally cannot do anything else in a computer game. Every game ever made has a mixture of those mechanics.

 

[WR3ND]

The above sums it up perfectly for me. In the last 3 weeks of DWE2 I have visited and scanned more systems outside the bubble than I have in the previous 3 years using the ADS. I don't say this because I had a particular dislike of the old way of doing it, but it was hard (for me) to sustain the activity for any appreciable length of time. I don't feel that with the FSS yet ... that may come in time but already my own experience is that I have FSS-ed more than I have ADS-ed. I feel the new process rewards my time invested better than the old one (not talking about credits here, I'm talking about recreational value).

Funny enough, it's the opposite for me. I just can't stomach the FSS and DSS gameplay for long at all. It's not what I want to be doing when exploring nor when playing this game, so I try and make well enough without having to use them on DW2. In game terms (jump-honk not withstanding), I'm exploring much, much less, even while on a trans-galactic exploration expedition.

Even the thought of the gameplay loop...

Jump to a new system, look forward to using the FSS to reveal new worlds...

Supercruise to new worlds, look forward to shooting probe balls at them to locate surface POIs...

Now repeat several thousands of times...

[ugh]

Sorry, but that isn't the game I want to spend my time playing in theory nor in practice. I even find just jump-honking while looking at the changing galactic view as I go to be more compelling.

Shame it came to this.

 

[Para Handy]

All the fss has done is added a time sink to the start and one at the end , Enter system , plays blue Blob game ( 1st time sink ) to populate map which the ` honk ` used to do , then fly to a planet and play Missile Command to surface scan it ( 2nd time sink ) you have to get so close to planet that it takes ages to pull away again lol . to me is just rubbish and has taken the fun out of exploration.

Essentially your post is completely opposite to reality. Complete scanning of any system, no matter how distant any far bodies might be, is many orders of magnitude quicker than the old system. Detail-scanning a body in the old method required a degree of proximity, now you can do it all from the arrival point.

You cannot possibly compare mapping with probes to any part of the previous exploration system. Under the old system if you wanted to find anything on the surface you had to fly over the surface looking for POI blue-circles. Seriously, you think that is better than "space darts"?

This Luddite, knee-jerk rejection of something that replaces a familiar method is disappointing. If people considered the features of the system with a non-biased mindset they would see its very many advantages. Yes it can be improved but the arguments against it are empty.