Why I and many others will rarely play open

[Deleted member 182079]

Last time I ran into some they had interdictors, but that was a while ago.
They were tenacious enough to track my exploration-fit DBX all the way out to KN Muscae though, which I liked. Sadly, at the end of the day they were still unengineered vipers and flying unarmed ships is against my religion, so they were dispatched in fairly short order.

It's a start though. I honestly want that kind of tenacity from all NPCs, and not just from powerplay. Since swapping ships is all it takes to get rid of bountyhunters (no chance of them coming after your taxi ship for crimes you committed in your murderboat) it's like there's zero consequence to upsetting powerful people in this game.

Some of the NPC dialogue for "incoming enemy" targets reads like it was supposed to be used for assassins to come after you if you abandon missions - what happened to that, that would have been awesome.

I experienced a (sort of) tenacious NPC bounty hunter last night in the CG system - was flying my T10 (which has a 112m bounty attached to it, that I'm quite fond of so not going to pay that off) towards a CZ and noticed the NPC making their move on me. I managed to drop into the CZ before they could interdict me, I still think they dropped in but I already pledged to one faction and they buggered off ...

 

[Amanojaku]

Yes that's true - was at the receiving end of this ages ago when I didn't know this, and another player just opened up on me in a RES without showing up as 'wanted' on my screen. I asked him after he blew me up, which is how I learned that particular lesson

Yeah, I realized you probably knew that right after I posted the reply, and you were mainly talking about NPCS.

You're welcome from Captain Obvious

 

[Robert Maynard]

But at the same time they are shooting and doing combat- if they don't learn by then (which is a fair amount of time and much longer than the other two) its down to their own ineptitude.

Not everyone seeks to be a combat expert - for some "that's good enough" applies when they can achieve what they want. There seems to be some conflation between inclination and incapability.

And yet for a feature like Powerplay that cries out for better NPCs, you say keep it the same?

In both these cases you can easily grade NPCs to players and establish an actual link between risk and reward for activity.

As you know, I've agreed for some time now that Powerplay NPCs could do with a bit of rework to scale the challenge.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Never said they had to, but you also can not condemn people for thier play style within the constraints of the game mechanics.

Which holds for players engaging others in PvP in Open just as much as it does for players engaging in pan-modal features in Solo and Private Groups.

I rarely take part in PVP but if somebody wants to pull me from witch space and test their pilot skills, then depending on what am flying will define if am going to run or make them earn their engineering. But thats the beautiful aspect of Elite! Nothing is one sided. Only pilot experience and knowledge defines it.

What is not one sided about a gank-FdL "taking on" a ship optimised for a role other than combat?

Elite is not a pickup and dakka dakka with the best of them. You need to earn your pilot skills.

If one is in any way interested in combat, yes, if not then not so much.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Not everyone seeks to be a combat expert - for some "that's good enough" applies when they can achieve what they want. There seems to be some conflation between inclination and incapability.

And yet, in a game where combat is a central pillar why is it that scaled combat is seen as secondary?

As you know, I've agreed for some time now that Powerplay NPCs could do with a bit of rework to scale the challenge.

I know, and every time you say so I give you a big hug

 

[Thimeus]

If one is in any way interested in combat, yes, if not then not so much.

I think, avoiding to be ganked in open is a pilot-skill, too

 

[Robert Maynard]

And yet, in a game where combat is a central pillar why is it that scaled combat is seen as secondary?

So central that two (soon to be three) Elite ranks are able to be gained without firing a shot in combat.

We have scaled combat already - in areas where Frontier have chosen to implement it.

I know, and every time you say so I give you a big hug

Indeed.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I think, avoiding to be ganked in open is a pilot-skill, too

Indeed - just as it requires the inclination for the player to want to play along with the ganker mini-game.

 

[Screemonster]

Thats the sad part about ED- if NPC scaling did not suddenly plateau at such a low level things might be different and modes seen differently. If NPC scaling was done right solo would be sometimes harder than PG or Open I imagine.

I don't mind it being easy for people who fly around just trading or whatever, but like...

If you go around getting wanted you should have bounty hunters after you. And they should scale to the size of your bounty. And yes, the scale should go into "hey, you know those wing assassination targets? The engineered FDLs that bring a party of engineered vultures? Your bounty is into the hundreds of millions so we're just going to skip the vultures, replace them with more of those FDLs, and have them come after you no matter what you're flying. No warnings in supercruise either, you'll be minding your own business in a signal source and these dudes will just drop on you from time to time. Get a bounty in the billions? You're going to have cutters with FDL escorts. You're going to be minding your own business mining and never be sure, even half an hour into the instance, whether this gank wing of NPCs is going to come for you. They're going to bring stealthboats too. One minute nothing, next minute you're getting the INCOMING TORPEDO warning and a pair of diamondbacks are next to you that you never knew were there. They're reverbs as well. Get dunked on."

Seriously, the upper end of the bounty hunter scale should be downright unfair in terms of the gear they bring to the party. Nothing cheaty like ATR and their reverb lasers, nothing that isn't available to players, just...
Once your bounty gets that high, they should be as dangerous as players.
I'm not talking "a couple of murders for some massacre mission" for this, I'm talking bounties in the hundreds of millons, the kinds you can only get through serious ganking or BGS mass-murder. A price that big on your head, and you should be looking over your shoulder wherever you go.

And I'm saying this as a dude who's primary occupation in the game is crime.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If NPC scaling was done right solo would be sometimes harder than PG or Open I imagine.

Solo already is harder than either of the multi-player game modes with respect to the challenge posed by NPCs - because it must be faced alone and not in a Wing.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Play Open or Solo is everyone's choice. It'll be interesting to find out how it all evolves when Odyssey is released..

You know what? I keep asking myself that (even made a thread about it before). I'm in two minds about it - apart from the fact that I think it'll be quite rare (beyond player hotspots, of which we might get more of as part of EDO) to meet other players on foot, I didn't particularly like how the animations are when I saw other players. Quite unnatural and arcadey really, plus in my experience in the Alpha they just run around (often right through you) and don't really add much value to my game.

If they still have the ability to change the state of settlements when I'm on a mission that wouldn't be great either and I'd be forced to switch to Solo to be able to complete those missions without them bugging out on me. Again probably small chance of that happening (i.e. another player being present at the same site in a much larger bubble compared to Alpha).

Performance was a major issue i.e. Solo ran much smoother for me, then again Alpha etc.

The biggest issue for me will be FPS combat - I'm playing with a pad and won't have a chance when it comes to competing with M&K players. Since I'm playing on PC the majority will be on the latter control method though.

Some food for thought for sure. I'll keep playing in Open and see how it goes I guess.

 

[Amanojaku]

I've always thought it would be cool if enemy PP NPCs were scaled to your PP rank.

If you were rank 5 you'd have serious NPCs come after you. Of course, you'd have to yawn your way to rank 5 in PP for a chance of a tough enemy spawn, so there's that.

Everything about PP needs a rework... So much potential sighs

 

[Thimeus]

Indeed - just as it requires the inclination for the player to want to play along with the ganker mini-game.

I don't have this inclination, but I accept, they are part of the game. I am somebody who plays the whole game and not turn a blind eye to parts of it

By increasing my pilot-skills I learned how to handle them. After a few failed gank-tries and more than one time I have laughed at them in the system-chat, most of them leave me alone.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I don't have this inclination, but I accept, they are part of the game. I am somebody who plays the whole game and not turn a blind eye to parts of it

They are a completely optional part of the game - and exist simply because players can shoot at anything they instance with in either of the multi-player game modes.

By increasing my pilot-skills I learned how to handle them. After a few failed gank-tries and more than one time I have laughed at them in the system-chat, most of them leave me alone.

Glad it's working out for you.

 

[TheMindBuddah]

If one is in any way interested in combat, yes, if not then not so much.

Yes, as somebody who is not interested in PVP I agree! But as it's a factor built into the game that can be encountered, so Thier is also a need to learn to be able to defend yourself or know how to run.

What I like about Elite is it reflects real life in that it's basically unfair! Run your unshielded Mining T9 to sell at a high paying station and you might lose everything. Run your T9 with shields, jump to a lower risk and less payout. Better chance of reward.

Elite is my escape, it lets me live in space but it also doesn't mean I don't want it and other players to challenge me. It also allow me to think for those hours in-game. I am CMDR TheMindBuddah: Space Beagle and Open supplies me with that because of the real CMDRs I encounter. From a 07's to the Code trying to steal my platinum! I wish more people after bad encounters would persevere and join a living breathing galaxy!

https://imgur.com/xVxtxDe

Source: http://imgur.com/xVxtxDe

 

[Thimeus]

They are a completely optional part of the game - and exist simply because players can shoot at anything they instance with in either of the multi-player game modes.

My bad. The possibility for gankers to exist is the part of the game is what I meant.

Of course I can hide in the shadows of a private group or the solo-mode, but I don't like too. I makes more fun with the possibility of meeting other pilots

 

[Robert Maynard]

My bad. The possibility for gankers to exist is the part of the game is what I meant.

Indeed.

Of course I can hide in the shadows of a private group or the solo-mode, but I don't like too. I makes more fun with the possibility of meeting other pilots

Whether one is "hiding" or simply disinterested in, what is for some, a tediously predictable waste of limited game time depends on the player.

There's no requirement to play among other players when purchasing the game (unless one wishes to engage in CQC, of course) - so it's no surprise that there are those who choose not to.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Nowadays meeting real pirate is quite rare experience. Mostly it is just somebody wanting to shoot you to pieces for the lulz...

 

[Screemonster]

Nowadays meeting real pirate is quite rare experience. Mostly it is just somebody wanting to shoot you to pieces for the lulz...

Much like meeting a trader that doesn't engage cloak the instant you open comms. It's the most vicious of circles.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Nowadays meeting real pirate is quite rare experience. Mostly it is just somebody wanting to shoot you to pieces for the lulz...

Much like meeting a trader that doesn't engage cloak the instant you open comms. It's the most vicious of circles.

Indeed - the gankers started spoiling the game for "real" pirates from the beginning.