Why I percieve the "new" scan as broken

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Are all the nay sayers forgetting something?

We've got that heart rate monitor thingie that'll show if something is worth scanning once you've learn what the wiggly lines mean.

So the OPs new routine is wrong.

You honk, open the new scanner, check the heart rate monitor thingie (I'll remember it's name eventually), notice anything interesting? Carry on. Nothing? Leave. Done!

You just need to learn(or keep a reference guide too) what the juicy signals are.
 
Vash627, thank you for the polite reply. Repped for being civil.

Braandlin, thank you for giving me something to laugh at. People that are that hypocritical always amuse me, at least when they aren't in the White House. Doing EVERYTHING you accuse me of in the same sentance you accuse in is... impressive.

the100thmonkey, I couldn't tell whether you are being sarcastic or not; either way, you need to work on the delivery.

As to the various, "you are wrong" elements, I notice that you talk about the new mechanics without addressing my points or proving me wrong in a specific fashion.

Am I wrong that you'll have to point the ship at each object to see the analysis of that object? That is the core of my objection, after all because THAT will take more time than the system map TO REACH THE DECISION POINT of the system's worth in terms of further exploration. I don't want to waste the time looking at potatoes, even if it is only TO DETERMINE that they are potatoes not worth my time in the first place. With the current system, I have visual queues IN AN AGGREGATED image of the bodies, even if I don't have specifics.

Yes, you are wrong about that. You don't need to point anything - the spectral analysis graph is there regardless of where you're pointing and you will be able to determine a potato from an ELW just by looking at the signal. Just like how with a little practice you can tell say mesosiderite from outcrops on the SRV wave scanner. But this system looks a lot clearer than the SRV one.

If you then say "I think that's an ELW" and decide to scan it, you don't move your ship, just the reticle and perform the scan. A scan which previously would have made you travel to within 100ls of the planet to perform.
 
Are all the nay sayers forgetting something?

We've got that heart rate monitor thingie that'll show if something is worth scanning once you've learn what the wiggly lines mean.

So the OPs new routine is wrong.

You honk, open the new scanner, check the heart rate monitor thingie (I'll remember it's name eventually), notice anything interesting? Carry on. Nothing? Leave. Done!

You just need to learn(or keep a reference guide too) what the juicy signals are.

People havent forgotten anything, you simply haven't been listening to what people have been saying over and over. The problem isn't that you cant see what planet is what on the scanner. The problem is that some explorers aren't interested in that. When you are interested in the 'shape' of a system, you now need to scan all bodies whereas previously this would be given by the honk. So for them the new system is slower. For everyone else its faster. It just depends on what you are doing.

And FD knows this. They said they were aware of it, thought about it, but considered the new system to be an improvement to most types of explorers so the few who dont like it are basically just going to have to deal with a change that may now work out for them as well as for others. As it is with every single change. Which is why we always get these topics, no matter what happens. Which is fine, but at least let us understand each other's position a bit better...
 
Or, maybe they are shifting the reason for exploration, not how we actually do it.

Currently the "excitement" comes from opening the system map and seeing that you are in a system worth exploring, now they are moving the excitement over to checking to see if the system actually IS worth exploring.

Columbus didn't land on the shores of America and take a quick scan to decide if it was worth his time, he actually had to explore to it.

TLDR; you now have to explore what you have, to see if its worth further exploring. Thats the point of exploration.

Columbus also didn't sit on his behind at his home port at Genova, pointing at blue balls and calling it exploration either...

1 - Opening the system map after the honk wasn't exciting.
2 - Opening the system map after a while spent pointing at blue balls sure isn't exciting either.
3 - Whatever comes after either (1) or (2), is (or may be) exciting (or not).

The only actual change, is that now the potentially exciting part will be mandatorily and repeatedly preceded by a boring game of "pointing the balls" for a variable duration of time, before we can actually proceed (or not) to the potentially exciting part.

TLDR: - Before, the pre-requirements to start exploring a system wasn't particularly interesting (the honk) but at least it wasn't annoying either. Now it will be equally not interesting, but it will have added annoyance.
 
Columbus also didn't sit on his behind at his home port at Genova, pointing at blue balls and calling it exploration either...

1 - Opening the system map after the honk wasn't exciting.
2 - Opening the system map after a while spent pointing at blue balls sure isn't exciting either.
3 - Whatever comes after either (1) or (2), is (or may be) exciting (or not).

The only actual change, is that now the potentially exciting part will be mandatorily and repeatedly preceded by a boring game of "pointing the balls" for a variable duration of time, before we can actually proceed (or not) to the potentially exciting part.

TLDR: - Before, the pre-requirements to start exploring a system wasn't particularly interesting (the honk) but at least it wasn't annoying either. Now it will be equally not interesting, but it will have added annoyance.

Which is basically it: do you think some skill-based gameplay added to the process is 'a nuisance' or a way to make exploration more engaging? There is no right or wrong answer, but there isn't much to discuss either. Its with almost anything in the game; you can always say you want [gameplay x] removed and the results/rewards just given to you, because using the rewards is what you are interested in. However, for years the boards have been filled with people wanting a more engaging mechanic than 'hold the button for a few seconds'. We will now get that.
 
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Well I would just wait and see, I am not very optimistic about this new feature but I am willing to give it try. I am just pleased that something new is on the horizon as I am quite bored now.

I wonder how people will perceive the new mini-games after 50-60 systems of it.
 
Agreed OP. Those are my concerns too. Those who are happy with the new system, dont bother to understand that IT IS possible to solve this for everyone and that it is very important to make the new system allmost perfect, because clearly it isnt. Its flaws will come to surface sooner or later.
For the goody guys that say "wait and see", i just have to say that "wait and see" was a disaster so many times before in this game. If noone speaks NOW, and this thing goes live like this, we will end up with something less than half baked like multi crew.
If we wait and see, no major changes will happen during the beta, it never has. Frontier had always an extremely slow development cycle and until everyone understands that the new system has major flaws, we will all stick with this forever.
So i suggest for some guys to stop being so selfish and:
remember the cqc
remember the power play
remember the multi crew
remember the alien optional invasion

Example: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...stascan-amp-system-map-minigame-for-explorers
 
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OP, try it first before passing judgement. And mean 20 - 30 systems, so you get used to it and understand it. If you still don't like it then, fill your boots and make suggestions for changes.

But, I have say it sounds like another 'I want to explore without exploring' thread.

Let me ask, are you a completionist? By that, I mean, do you scan EVERY object you encounter?

As an example, your course takes you through a Class M. The ADS reveals that the there are a total of 10 objects in the system. When you open the System Map, you find a typical Class M and nine non-landable, beige hunks of rock in various orbits. It is literally the stereotypical system that most of the galaxy is made up of with minor variations such as a Tauri instead of a Class M.

Are you going to go and scan each of these to ensure they are in your personal database?

As to the various people that have corrected me on the scanner suite as opposed to the ship, thank you for the clarification. I would point out though, that it is a technical clarification, not a refutation of my argument. You still have to play the mini-game to get to the point of determining whether the above system is worth taking more time on.

Call it a god honk if you like, but I want to be able to see that system and move on because I got over the need to scrawl my name on every piece of star dust I encounter on my way out to Beagle Point.

I've scattered a bit more rep around to the people that made good faith attempts to enlighten me. To them, thank you for taking the time.
 
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The guys on OA's round table stream last night asked a great question:

If the game had launched with the Chapter 4 system for Exploration, and then Frontier changed that system to match what we've been using since launch, would anyone be happy with that?

Probably not.

Some players have gotten so used to the sub-par system we've had to endure, that now we finally get a new and improved process for exploration, there's concern about time to fully scan a system (when 3.3 will actually be quicker), rewards (which will be equal in 3.3 if not more), viewing system make-up after honk (still available in 3.3 with a more involved and learn-able process to boot).

It was interesting to hear OA saying that while the changes will make it longer to do some of his videos, he (as a content creator) would rather have the Chapter 4 changes compared to what's been on offer now. As would I.

If Frontier can't please all the different types of explorers, then they can please the majority of those types. If the reaction I've read on these forums is any indication, then mission accomplished.
 
Yes, you are wrong about that. You don't need to point anything - the spectral analysis graph is there regardless of where you're pointing and you will be able to determine a potato from an ELW just by looking at the signal. Just like how with a little practice you can tell say mesosiderite from outcrops on the SRV wave scanner. But this system looks a lot clearer than the SRV one.

If you then say "I think that's an ELW" and decide to scan it, you don't move your ship, just the reticle and perform the scan. A scan which previously would have made you travel to within 100ls of the planet to perform.

You just proved my point for me, but thank you for the reply. I added an emphasis to YOUR STATEMENT showing what I have been trying to get across.

People havent forgotten anything, you simply haven't been listening to what people have been saying over and over. The problem isn't that you cant see what planet is what on the scanner. The problem is that some explorers aren't interested in that. When you are interested in the 'shape' of a system, you now need to scan all bodies whereas previously this would be given by the honk. So for them the new system is slower. For everyone else its faster. It just depends on what you are doing.

And FD knows this. They said they were aware of it, thought about it, but considered the new system to be an improvement to most types of explorers so the few who dont like it are basically just going to have to deal with a change that may now work out for them as well as for others. As it is with every single change. Which is why we always get these topics, no matter what happens. Which is fine, but at least let us understand each other's position a bit better...

I know you and I often are on opposite sides of specific discussions, often to the point of incivility, but thank you, this is very well said.
 
I know you and I often are on opposite sides of specific discussions, often to the point of incivility, but thank you, this is very well said.
It's a result of the forum interaction. People read posts not to get to grips with what the poster is saying, but to be able to make a devastating counter point at the end. If the post doesn't happen to provide that because it is nuanced, the devastating counterpoint is all dressed up, but has nowhere to go.

All that pent up pressure is building up and looking for an outlet not provided by the post that is being read, so the reader has to be the one releasing that pressure to ensure the climax of the devastating counterpoint and relieves himself by recreating the circumstances .... is it getting hot in here?
 
Which is basically it: do you think some skill-based gameplay added to the process is 'a nuisance' or a way to make exploration more engaging? There is no right or wrong answer, but there isn't much to discuss either. Its with almost anything in the game; you can always say you want [gameplay x] removed the results/rewards just given to you, because using the rewards is what you are interested in. However, for years the boards have been filled with people wanting a more engaging mechanic than 'hold the button for a few seconds'. We will now get that.

Taking the other post's Columbus reference as an example, when FD announced a revamp to what was a rather dry exploration experience, I was kind of expecting that the future process of "exploring the americas" would bring stuff along the the likes of dynamic ocean conditions, sea storms, friendly and hostile natives, environmental hazards, diseases, discovering new forms of life, new plants, new geology, bringing back new and extraordinary things and such kind of stuff that made exploring the americas a hard but rewarding grand adventure. Instead, we just got a minigame to play while still at port in Genova, while venturing out into the ocean to explore the great unknown and venturing through unknown lands remains exactly as insipid as before, completely untouched.

Metaphores aside, I was hoping/expecting gameplay to be added to the act of exploring systems, stuff that would/might happen while I explored a system, more actual interactions with the environment, having all those numbers, temperature, pressure, etc, actually play a part on survival, more discoverable things with different interactions and more ways to extract info/data about them, both in space and planets. Instead we get to play, over and over again, a vapid (imo) minigame before starting to explore each and every new system, while the actual system space and planetary exploration, which is where the meat was most surely missing, remains exactly the same as it was without anything new added to it. This is what truly irks me. That the actual system exploration will still be just the same rather dry experience it always was, but now there's a constant, mandatory bland minigame as pre-requisite to start exploring each and every system.

Imagine you one day decide to venture out into space to explore the misteries of the great unknown, is "pointing the balls" for a dozen thousand times the kind of stuff you would wish to experience as the meat of your grand space adventure? I would wager it is not. And neither do I :)
 
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Same as everything else really, the people who enjoy themselves will be fine with it. The serial whingers will be very unhappy indeed.
Is that the 2 options I have?

I am quite concerned that not after 50 or 60 systems, but after hundreds of them, the mechanism will become a chore. Don't know whether it will be, and since I enjoy playing this game and specifically exploration I hope it won't be. But what if it has?

There's about 3 to 400 systems between me and the bubble. When Q4 drops I'm going home and I'll be using the new mechanics extensively. When I'm home I very much hope I'll be chomping to get back out again. But there's no guaranteeing it. So I do worry that the game which is easily in my top 5 games of all time next to the original Elite, will no longer entertain me. And that would be a shame. Not the end of the world, but a shame.
 
Taking the other post's Columbus reference as an example, when FD announced a revamp to what was a rather dry exploration experience, I was kind of expecting that the future process of "exploring the americas" would bring stuff along the the likes of dynamic ocean conditions, sea storms, friendly and hostile, environmental hazards, diseases, discovering new forms of life, new plants, new geology, bringing back new and extraordinary things and such kind of stuff that made exploring the americas a hard but rewarding grand adventure. Instead, we just got a minigame to play while still at port in Genova, while venturing out into the ocean to explore the great unknown and venturing through unknown lands remains exactly as insipid as before, completely untouched.

Metaphores aside, I was hoping/expecting gameplay to be added to the act of exploring systems, stuff that would/might happen while I explored a system, more actual interactions with the environment, having all those numbers, temperature, pressure, etc, actually play a part on survival, more discoverable things with different interactions and more ways to extract info/data about them, both in space and planets. Instead we get to play, over and over again, a vapid (imo) minigame before starting to explore each and every new system, while the actual system space and planetary exploration, which is where the meat was most surely missing, remains exactly the same as it was without anything new added to it. This is what truly irks me. That the actual system exploration will still be just the same rather dry experience it always was, but now there's a constant, mandatory bland minigame as pre-requisite to start exploring each and every system.

Imagine you one day decide to venture out into space to explore the misteries of the great unknown, is "pointing the balls" for a dozen thousand times the kind of stuff you would wish to experience as the meat of your grand space adventure? I would wager it is not. And neither do I :)

I would find 'pointing the balls' to be better than 'pressing the honk', to be honest. Besides, they have clearly stated they have added a bunch of stuff and new space phenomena all over the galaxy, plus added ways to find them-in game using the tools, and share them using the codex. To pretend they only added a new scan mechanism is a bit cheap, to be honest. Of course, if they showed some of it on the stream we'd return to the earlier "FD SHOULD STOP WITH THE SPOILERS IN THE STREAMS WE WANT TO FIND IT OURSELVES!" argument. And if they just say they add stuff and dont show it, so we do get to find it ourselves, we pretend they never said it and nothing is added. :(
 
Taking the other post's Columbus reference as an example, when FD announced a revamp to what was a rather dry exploration experience, I was kind of expecting that the future process of "exploring the americas" would bring stuff along the the likes of dynamic ocean conditions, sea storms, friendly and hostile natives, environmental hazards, diseases, discovering new forms of life, new plants, new geology, bringing back new and extraordinary things and such kind of stuff that made exploring the americas a hard but rewarding grand adventure. Instead, we just got a minigame to play while still at port in Genova, while venturing out into the ocean to explore the great unknown and venturing through unknown lands remains exactly as insipid as before, completely untouched.

What you're describing sounds more like a paid expansion DLC than a "free" update for all. I hope they are preparing something like that for the "new era" of Elite, and there have been subtle hints dropped that the underlying game code was overhauled much during the beyond series. This would also explain the change of heart with beyond content being available to all players instead of Horizons owners only. But TBH if someone doesn't own horizons by now... shame shame shame. But I digress. I think/hope they are paving way for something really major which is next on the menu, and probably paid. I wouldn't mind. Let's just hope it isn't more combat...
 
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