The beef I have with your original comment is to simply ban the use of keyboard and mouse. That is a very narrow minded and short sighted view to take. While you may be able to use the joystick better then everyone else there are some people who simply don't want a joystick or can't afford one. There are some people, like me, that are perfectly happy using a keyboard/mouse setup. I may one day get a HOTAS setup but until then why should I be banned from playing ED? What about the XBOX users and game pads? Should they be banned as well because Microsoft don't have a joystick for their console?
Why I use a mouse rather than a joystick
- Thread starter SentineI
- Start date
The beef I have with your original comment is to simply ban the use of keyboard and mouse. That is a very narrow minded and short sighted view to take. While you may be able to use the joystick better then everyone else there are some people who simply don't want a joystick or can't afford one. There are some people, like me, that are perfectly happy using a keyboard/mouse setup. I may one day get a HOTAS setup but until then why should I be banned from playing ED? What about the XBOX users and game pads? Should they be banned as well because Microsoft don't have a joystick for their console?
The mouse controls for ED are just fine, it has way more options and tuning than any other "sim" type game I've played.
Remiel
Banned
Well, it worked for Alliance. ^_^
I use Keyboard and Mouse, but that's because I play other games and it would be too much of a pain to move my Joystick out of the way due to desk space issues. If I wasn't renting, then I would probably have a room with 3 monitors and joystick setup with VR just for the absolute immersion.
As a keyboard Mouse User (G510s Keyboard G402 Mouse) I fail to see (due to lack of experience with a Joystick) how it can beat the precision of a mouse, is there something I'm missing? I play with a Point-Click setup I suppose.
I'm at work so can't check how I have it set up, but I love my keyboard and Mouse Configuration. The lack of being able to continuing aiming while changing where you're looking is something that annoys me though, does this not happen on the Joystick?
As a keyboard Mouse User (G510s Keyboard G402 Mouse) I fail to see (due to lack of experience with a Joystick) how it can beat the precision of a mouse, is there something I'm missing? I play with a Point-Click setup I suppose.
I'm at work so can't check how I have it set up, but I love my keyboard and Mouse Configuration. The lack of being able to continuing aiming while changing where you're looking is something that annoys me though, does this not happen on the Joystick?
Bet those flight sims didn't limit pitch, roll and yaw to maximum constraints, though, did they?
Stick advantage comes from variable input. That advantage doesn't exist in ed.
The only benefit to using a stick is immersion. You cannot pitch, roll or yaw any faster than I. And I have my mouse settings tweaked to allow precise movements and faoff boost turns, without losing control.
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Remiel
Banned
The only person you're fooling is yourself. And other people who deny joystick superiority of course, but all I'm saying is I have no stake in players who want to limit their own capabilities. You still rely on the keyboard for a huge portion of your maneuvering, no matter how tweaked your mouse is, there will still be a number of sweeping hand movements that you have to make in certain situations. HOTAS with pedals or a twist-stick removes that completely, and your hands are in one place 100% of the time. The same thing can be said for the difference between having a sidestick or a jockstick in a fighter plane - doesn't seem like a huge difference because fundamentally, it's the exact same control layout. However, by putting less strain on your stick arm, it not only becomes more capable of endurance in hard combat situations, but it's also more comfortably positioned and a pilot becomes ~30% more responsive to threats as a result of simply moving the stick to the side instead of having it in the middle.
There are more factors to consider than just variable input. Variable input applies to all controls, which actually makes it entirely irrelevant. A good control layout that reduces unnecessary body movement as much as possible and reduces strain automatically gives a pilot an advantage over one with a control layout that doesn't do these things. And a joystick setup that provides all-aspect flight control without having to flail about on a keyboard is one such advantage.
Shame my mouse has 20+ buttons.
As I said, settings. I barely have to move my mouse 95% of the time. You do know they've come on a long way since Microsoft intellimouse... And playing FPS games since Quake means mouse control, even where pickup is required at times, is second nature.
ED's mouse input design is the best I've seen. You're only fooling yourself to justify spending so big. There isn't a move you can do that I can't. You are absolutely right that most (if not all) flight sims put you at a huge advantage using a stick. I'd never play a driving game without variable input if I had the choice, too. But Ed has been designed very smartly for balanced control choices. You cannot move faster or more accurately than I on the basis that your stick allows it.
So your argument now comes down to "I move my body less". Hmm, yes... £200 well spent, there.
The best control method is the one you prefer. You prefer stick. So it's best for you. I do not. I'm at no disadvantage whatsoever. Had ED not limited pitch, roll and yaw then I'd have bought a stick. It's that simple.
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Remiel
Banned
Buttons are digital, which means on or off. Sure, you can adjust the DPI, but if you were to assign your roll control to some of the side buttons, for example, you could only ever get full roll movement, or none at all, and nothing in between. That's the nature of buttons, and the potential for overshooting on manoeuvres when using such setups is much higher than someone with full analogue control over their craft's attitude. In other words, analogue gives you precision control, whereas digital is all-or-nothing. A mouse with 20 buttons also seems kinda redundant, given the dexterity required to make them all useful on a mouse. One of the principles of maximising efficiency in aerospace combat is reducing complications for the pilot. Too many buttons doing too many different things is a huge complication.
So sure your opinion is the right one, you are willing to bet your arguments on guesses.
Pitch and roll are assigned to the mouse axis. Not digital buttons. The rest don't need analogues due to the input range being tiny (due to the maximum input being limited) and the thrusters having inertia (you can't go from strafing left to strafing right instantly, even if you use maximum analogue input - you can do it the same speed as me).
I'll say it again... There isn't a move you can do that a mouse cannot. There isn't a move a mouse can do that you cannot.
And I've seen players using the stick in ED. They have to move their hand way more than I do. A full pitch demands that I move my mouse up a few mm and hold it. If that. On a stick you have to physically move it just add much. And the players I've seen are bashing it all over the place.
Probably because it's fun!
And is a stick advocate really arguing that too many buttons is complicated?
Mate, give over.
The stick is the flight sim enthusiast's choice and is the only way to really immerse yourself in the game. But FD have done an incredible job making mouse work for the game without forcing players to buy a stick if it's not their preferred method.
My opinion is the right device is the one you prefer. Yours is "mine is the best for everyone". Good luck proving that based on your tests with a totally different game.
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Used this mouse
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-trackball-m570?crid=8
and keyboard till version 1.1 now I am using x55
My verdict: Aiming is better with mouse, but immersion and flying is better with x55.
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-trackball-m570?crid=8
and keyboard till version 1.1 now I am using x55
My verdict: Aiming is better with mouse, but immersion and flying is better with x55.
In my experience, joystick can't beat the precision of a mouse. That said, I have no experience with top of the line joysticks either (using an affordable Logitech one myself).
What I've read on these forums and seen in Youtube videos of E: D gameplay supports this opinion though.Keeping the opponent in front of your guns and while looking elsewhere - without head-tracking (or Oculus etc.) it's the same with joystick, you may have a POV hat (analog in some more advanced configurations?) which you can use for that (I use mouse for the looking around).
BTW, you could post your bindings file for others to use in the Hardware & Technical section, I bet a working config would lessen many newbie frustrations.
I played ED with both mouse+kb and double joystick. They're both good but they offer two different approaches.
The first one is more "intellective" and technical, with more precision and better micro-management of ships maneuvers. The second one is more "physical" and instinctive and offers a better feeling of flight physics (eg. ship's weight and maneuverability).
For my experience there's no winner, just a matter of tastes. Mice vs Joy will be an eternal struggle and we could write tons of threads without a true winner.
The first one is more "intellective" and technical, with more precision and better micro-management of ships maneuvers. The second one is more "physical" and instinctive and offers a better feeling of flight physics (eg. ship's weight and maneuverability).
For my experience there's no winner, just a matter of tastes. Mice vs Joy will be an eternal struggle and we could write tons of threads without a true winner.
You're right. But ED has no winner. Both are viable equally. It's those who default to "flight sim = stick" without actually knowing how good mouse control is, with the right settings, who are trying to win the argument.
There's a difference between "the best for you is the best" and "my choice is best for all".
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I think Frontier Developments made a wonderful job balancing the different inputs and controls...I've played with m+k, with xbox pad and with hotas and any control scheme can be as effective (and enjoyable) as any other (obviously with its pros and its cons). This last statement is not true at all for any other game (think about first person shooter where mouse is the ONLY viable solution). In Elite Dangerous instead is only a matter of personal preference and how much you are able to spend in gaming devices. ALthough I like Hotas because of the immersion, I remember a post few days ago where a user said he can aim with more precision with fixed weapons with a mouse instead of the stick...so..really...it's just a matter of personal preference. Use whatever control scheme you want if it fits with you! You will enjoy the game as any other player and there will be not missing feature you can achieve with your choice.
Nice work by the OP, but it's just personal choice, either financial, experience or preference. I've always used a mouse in ED, but used a Logitech joystick in Oolite to great effect too. Similar game mechanic (for some reason!)
One thing I found out entirely by accident is that the middle mouse button can be used as a qualifier, like a shift key. For example, I use Z, X, C and V and 0%, 50%, 75% and 100% Throttle. I have "Mouse 3 + Z" set up as -100% Throttle, and a few other things now too. As the MMB can be clicked very easily in combat, it means you can do twice as much with half the number of keys. Well, technically twice as much with the same number of keys. Or the same with... oh, you get the idea.
One thing I found out entirely by accident is that the middle mouse button can be used as a qualifier, like a shift key. For example, I use Z, X, C and V and 0%, 50%, 75% and 100% Throttle. I have "Mouse 3 + Z" set up as -100% Throttle, and a few other things now too. As the MMB can be clicked very easily in combat, it means you can do twice as much with half the number of keys. Well, technically twice as much with the same number of keys. Or the same with... oh, you get the idea.
The website isn't loading on my phone for some reason. Which is it you use?
I use the g600. It's actually designed for MMO games but the side buttons (12 of them) are brilliantly placed. It has two buttons set on top, the mouse wheel can be flicked left or right and it has three main buttons (not just left and right click). It's an amazing mouse. And I got it almost half price (£60 normally).
You can double up any button with alt (or triple with shift, or quadruple with ctrl). I only need alt, though. Sticks only have so many buttons. I have more than I need. But with any game I play, it's better to need no movement of the keyboard hand so I have all critical combat functions set to the mouse.
It took me 2 hours in the tutorial to tweak my settings and flying is instinctive to me now.
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
use which ever control method suits your play style (and your wallet). The great thing about PCs is their flexibility to cater to different people...... So long as KB&M users do not complain that they want aids put in place to artificially help control their vehicles (for instance like WarThunder, and *possibly* Star Citizen) so that they are unfairly advantaged over stick users its all good.
Clearly you have picked up on different threads to me, but the only times I have noticed people suggesting getting a stick is to people complaining that the game is rubbish and the controls suck. Even then, the threads i saw were only trying to be helpful.
There are a number of mouse users on this forum who in a head to head I would not stand much chance against... with or without my X55!.
Clearly you have picked up on different threads to me, but the only times I have noticed people suggesting getting a stick is to people complaining that the game is rubbish and the controls suck. Even then, the threads i saw were only trying to be helpful.
There are a number of mouse users on this forum who in a head to head I would not stand much chance against... with or without my X55!.
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