Why I won't buy the next season.

I must admit, the live Q&A stream put a bit of a downer on the game for me today.

Pretty much every question was answered with, "no" or "not really", "it would take too long" or "we can't do that because of technical limitations".

I mean, half the stuff people are asking for with missions is either too big a job or not possible because of the games design.

It makes me worry about the games future, will they even be able to do half the things they promised during the kick-starter?

I have posted this
[video=youtube;EvJPyjmfdz0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvJPyjmfdz0&list=FL5FaQ-mxWMccj11H8Kw-oAQ&index=1[/video]
a number of times...I suggest you watch it, since it explains how the game functions.

Once you understand this, it becomes painfully obvious that the game cannot do a lot of what people want it to...unfortunately.

It CAN do everything that the devs promised...but it cannot be the game everyone dreams of....

This video, and my experience with the Lugh War...and what we learned from that extravaganza, are why I take the positions I have in discussing the game, it's relationships, PvE, and PvP.

When you tie the above to a PtP networking experience....it all really makes a lot of sense....and has a lot of shortcomings to peoples desires.
 
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@ OP: Get away from the grinding mentality asap, as you can see for yourself that it isn't any good.

For fun, motivation and a feeling of success, have you tried the background simulation (BGS) yet?
The BGS is what keeps me playing since january.

My recent successes when working the BGS are flipping a hi-tech system to the Alliance, expanding into a system i want to flip to the Alliance and triggering an expansion of an Alliance corporate faction.

More information is in my signature. :)
You are a valuable asset to our cause.
 
I must admit, the live Q&A stream put a bit of a downer on the game for me today.

Pretty much every question was answered with, "no" or "not really", "it would take too long" or "we can't do that because of technical limitations".

I mean, half the stuff people are asking for with missions is either too big a job or not possible because of the games design.

It makes me worry about the games future, will they even be able to do half the things they promised during the kick-starter?

Hmm. I listened to that same Q&A, but I didn't come away feeling nearly as "down" as you. Indeed a few of their answers made me feel quite optimistic about the future-like more ways of gaining missions away from mission boards, smoother branching missions, having mission branches being optional. The only thing that left me a bit down was them saying they had nothing new to announce regarding passenger missions for 2.3. I shall wait & see, to be honest.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
Hmm. I listened to that same Q&A, but I didn't come away feeling nearly as "down" as you. Indeed a few of their answers made me feel quite optimistic about the future-like more ways of gaining missions away from mission boards, smoother branching missions, having mission branches being optional. The only thing that left me a bit down was them saying they had nothing new to announce regarding passenger missions for 2.3. I shall wait & see, to be honest.

OK, I'll shut the hell up now. I just routed my first capital ship... in a fight that I cared about. That was totally worth it!
 
I must admit, the live Q&A stream put a bit of a downer on the game for me today.

Pretty much every question was answered with, "no" or "not really", "it would take too long" or "we can't do that because of technical limitations".

I mean, half the stuff people are asking for with missions is either too big a job or not possible because of the games design.

It makes me worry about the games future, will they even be able to do half the things they promised during the kick-starter?

Most interesting comment of the stream for me was how the mission developers aren't in full control of the mission development process and have to fit in with development of other mechanics. Unable to use mechanics that aren't in yet (of course) even existing mechanics are also subject to change (overhauls) and it sounded to me like a large part of the work so far has been in developing a mission authoring system. As major mechanics become more locked down, mission development is set free but Frontier are plainy (and rightly imo) not quick to lock a mechanic down until they're sure about it in context of future mechanics. I don't share the view that the game won't be capable of fulfilling that original vision, or that it would even be healthy, to keep mission developers in a headspace where it's obvious to them on a daily basis that some of their work is being written in shifting sands. I got a feeling these guys had already had seen several versions of their work torn up, for them to rewrite. Inevitable, but rough on them as they need to treating every mission as the finished article. I'll be buying Season 3 though because 2.2 Passengers .. but also because, White Dwarfs. Be honest, who saw that coming?

ED is too much of a grind. It lacks fun and that's not how you can keep people playing your game especially those with little free time. People with a busy life and few hours to spare want to make serious progress and feel rewarded, not get lost due to lack of instructions in-game and grind for hours on end.

Unless you're a self-starter maybe? If you're more interestied in having your hand held, and progressing just for being there, than going for the full on Bear Grylls, space survivor mantle ..
 
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Ripbudd

Banned
I will buy Season 3, if Star Citizen is still not released yet. If SC starts before season 3 you can forget my money, ever. :)
 
the engineer grind... naww if I have something for an engineer and I'm like within 50ly of his base, then I'll visit

Mark these wise words, people. It's exactly the way how interacting with engineers is engaging and interesting and I suppose it's the gameplay style the devs had in mind when designing the engineers.

Focusing too much on nothing but getting the best engineer mods without doing anything else will naturally result in a tedious grind, but just incorporating them as one part of many into your playstyle is way more fun and works pretty well.
 
You're putting different consumption models on top of each other. If they asked full price for a game to be as stated on release, and it was not, and that game had to take 18 months to get to that point of content, then yes, you'd have a point. This is the NMS issue, where what was alluded to at point of purchase, didn't exist. There, you have an issue. With ED, that was never the case. It was clear that content would be added, that the season pass could be purchased at any time (not just at the beginning). So there was no mis-direct. The only issue was any definitive dates for development. They gave projected milestones, but no ongoing development can give specific dates. They have delivered updates, and patches in between.

The reason this model is more tenuous in the gaming industry as to delivery is because development is inevitably unique; you are building unique products - there is no clear development plan as you would have in building a car or a house. In such development you can give relatively good milestones (although they can shift and change too, if hitches appear on the way, or set backs). ED is doing what hasn't been done before, there will be delays, and on a long term delivery plan, we are still at bare-bone stages.

Doesn't mean you can't be bored, but it does mean you can at least be assured things will change, and this model of investment has in no way been unfair or manuipulative to the consumer. It's been very clear, and continues to deliver to that promise.

It makes absolutely no difference to the customer.
He has paid in advance and is then at the whim of the company.
They decide what is being delivered and they can deliver in a time frame of their own choosing.
I am not discussing whether FD has delivered, and i am not accusing them of anything, least of all any similarity to what HG pulled off.
But a season pass is the lock box of business models.
You buy one and all you're left with is hoping for the best.
That "hope" being based on prior experience, abstract factors like trust and faith, and information given to you from the people who are going to profit.
My personal experience has nothing to do with the post you quoted btw, i never bought season 2, as i'll wait for it to be completed before considering.
Season passes are a travesty in my book, nothing less.
 
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But the discussion here (at least from my standpoint) is not whether or not I've gotten a fair deal for what I've paid thus far, but whether or not I anticipate getting a fair return on future investment.

And by "fair" I mean something that I desire, not something that someone else desires.
WRT potential ROI in regards to future expansions it is impossible to determine what that might be until FD release the details on the next season. If anything, those of us that paid for the life-time expansion pass either pre-release or at release of Horizons possibly have the greater cause of complaint since at least some of use may have gambled on the theory of a 10yr plan on the principle of one season per year. Though arguably even if it turns out to be only 1 season every other year then we still probably have got our money's worth and if it evolves over a longer time period then there is still no real cause for complaint. Overall, any discussion of potential future expansions and whether they are going to be worth the investment is sheer speculation until FD actually formally announce the corresponding price (for non LEP owners and new players) and guaranteed content (or content focus).

Where Horizons is concerned, I think there is only really v2.3/multi-crew to go before they have actually met their Horizons obligations from it's release. I would anticipate atmospheric planet handling to be part of a future season, and for v2.4 perhaps there will be alternative SRVs and/or SRV engineers. I also suspect that v2.4 may (also) be focused on perhaps a new (or old - e.g. Thargoid) alien faction(s) (providing additional content for both Horizons and non-Horizons players). Either way, v2.4 will surely be announced formally in due course and will be whatever it will be. We are still not 100% sure of what exactly will be included in v2.3 except in a minimalistic sense.

Also, it's not a matter of entitlement. It's a simple matter of supply and demand.
Not exactly, there is a difference between supply and demand and people complaining about an evolving product. Whether any of us individually realised it or not, ED is an evolving product that is being developed in accordance with FD's IP not ours. We are all just along for the ride in the main and while they may or may not react to specific feedback ultimately they are not obligated to (with-in reason). There are at least some that fail to acknowledge this and seem to feel they are entitled to have more influence than they actually have (and are truly entitled to).

As ED is officially marketed as an MMO with Private Group/Solo modes, I believe that focusing on single player focused content as such is likely to be a secondary concern if not a footnote. Similarly, PvP focused content is also likely to carry a comparable level of bias. Arguably though, they are not ignoring either the single player content as development of mission content is not off their radar nor are the ignoring the PvP concerns with both CQC gameplay mode and the hints of a future Karma system. FD are more likely IMO to be focused on gameplay in the long term that can be played either with or without other players (either competitively or co-operatively). I also hope they steer clear of the e-Sports trap that certain other games have got caught up in as I personally believe such a thing could ruin an Elite type game. The only exception to this might be e-Sports in terms of CQC tournaments.
 
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Focusing too much on nothing but getting the best engineer mods without doing anything else will naturally result in a tedious grind

Do what other things? There's only fighting and deliveries. Well, and exploration, i suppose. Mining at a stretch.
 
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Something for nothing? No, I enjoy putting effort in. I play World of Tanks on my iPad more than I do Elite Dangerous. Why? Because while it is a grind, it's also easy to find other people to play with. Just jump into any game. My focus is always on the next tank, or the next upgrade. I've got a fair number of Tier X tanks, then I'll go back to the beginning of another tech tree and grind my way up them. But it's always many short hops to goals, and they are something you obtain forever. Clearly I own all the tanks at once! But I've unlocked them. That's something I'm rewarded for, even if the tank turns out to be poo lol. But I get to play with that tank, which is a pretty good reward and a clear focus..

I will only be addressing your comments towards 'grind'. You make it clear you feel that Elite is a grind I disagree with you completely. I quoted the above post to highlight some things I think you need to understand... Grind is subjective.

You play WoT, a game that is known for it's pure grind mechanics. Everything about WoX games are designed to be a grind which you can bypass with real cash, I wonder how much you have spent on WoT although I think I know what you will say already. Fine, your not happy with Elite but you chose to 'grind' in the game, nothing forced you to like you were with WoT.

You've used the grind in WoT to unlock all the tanks? That is no small task and takes a lot of doing the same things over and over and over and over and ... you get the point... or do you? Unlocking the top tier Imperial ship does take a lot of work which can seem like a grind if you dedicate yourself to that end. However, Elite unlike any WoX game allows you to do so many varied other activities that you have the opportunity to never feel like you have been fooled into a grind.

I have had a passion for WW2 warships since I was a small child so when WoWS came out I of course tried it so I do know just how much of a grind their games are. You are stuck with a few maps for a long time while you rank through the levels... And on and on it goes... Despite the fact it's as arcade as PacMan it was fun for a while but very fast became boring to the point it was un-installed 3 weeks after starting it and I'll never be going back all due to it's pure grind or pay mechanic - at least with Elite I get to decide what I do.
 
Hi,

I've invested a reasonable amount of money in Elite Dangerous Beta and then Elite Dangerous horizons. But I won't be purchasing the 3rd season of this game. Why?

The biggest reason, is that the game is just one big annoying grind, with hardly anything explained. Everything I know about Elite Dangerous comes from 3rd party websites, individuals outside the game have created.

For example. I wanted to upgrade my FSD using engineers. Great, fantastic. But the information presented on screen doesn't tell you how to get the materials required.

Combat is too "balanced" this means it's very hard to get an upper hand in the game. I don't want to be stressing about how much insurance money I have to pay every time my ship dies. There's largely no advantage to having a bigger ship, because that just means you get targeted a lot more. This is great if you play in wings, but I don't have time to go around making friends, organizing wing parties and logging into the game. I'm a solo player, who works for a living. I can't spend my entire like grinding to get ahead. This makes the game fundamentally not fun.

Anyway back to the main problem. I feel like an investigative journalist every time I want to do something new, find a resource, or engage in a new aspect of the game. I'm trying to find modular terminals right now, it says you get them as a mission reward. So I spent 3 hours flying around stations looking for mission rewards. With Elite the devil is in the fine detail. You must be in BOOM economic systems, you must be in Industry economic systems, and even then it's completely pot luck. Then you have NO CONTROL over which missions pop up. I just took a "go steal cargo" mission. I turned up in the system, between the times indicated, and my target never turned up. That was a waste of an hour. I visited signal sources, I scanned ships around me. No target. This keeps happening to me with these kinds of missions. So clearly there is something I'm not getting. Because IT HAS NOT BEEN DESCRIBED IN THE GAME. When you have a game this complex, you NEED INSTRUCTIONS so players aren't wasting their time ing around. I want a clear simple goal to acheive. I don't want to be searching forums and other websites trying to decode why the hell what I expect to be happening isn't happening.

Lets see what you can do in Elite as a solo player.

Mining... gets really boring. All the profit is in hazard area's as a solo player you'll pay more insurance than you gain profit. Either that or you spent hours and hours in low profit area's. It works out the same in terms of profit, the difference is I don't have hours and hours.
Exploring. OMG, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump, fly, scan, scoop, jump... kill me now.
Piracy... great if you operate as part of a wing, not good for solo players.
Buying new ships... why there's not a lot of advantage. you're going to get ganked by a bunch of NCP's anyway. Bigger ships just means more credit loss when they blow up.
Trading... I can do this for a while, but it's the same sort of thing. The profit to death ratio is just too low.
Community goals... ok these can be fun, taking part of the unfolding story of Elite. At least these give you a clear, and engaging reward.
Combat zones... bigger the ship, the more you get targeted. Again, this works well for wings of players. I'm a solo player. Getting ganged up on is not a lot of fun.
Planets... ok driving around was cool. Now all the planets look the same. Dead, dusty rocks with crap to blast. People complain about no man's sky. But, you know what? At least the planets were more interesting too look at. Honestly from space they look more interesting than the ground.
Power Play... is just cargo running and blowing stuff up. While getting interdicted more, plus it limits your movements between systems because of how much you get attacked.

Elite Dangerous is an impressive game. But, it lacks fun, it lacks focus, and it lacks creativity. Everything you do in it, is a grind. Crafting, is a grind. You can't build anything that is yours, you can't own systems, or plant flags, you can't build bases. These are things games like the X-series, and Eve online do pretty well. They allow clear precise goals. When I play games I want some kind of success. That's where games like minecraft, space engineers, rust, etc, excel.

What good is a big empty universe full of grind?

You may all how begin flamming me for being "a bad player who doesn't get the game.

Either way, I'm not dumping any more cash into this thing, when there are more enjoyable experiences elsewhere that won't suck days of my life only to end up in failure. I game for the carrot, not so I can be hit with a stick all the time cause I'm not doing it right.

I've tested everything to make money, to buy a better ship.
Most of the time i play alone as well, and it works pretty good. The first i did was exploring, with a very cheap ship, ~ 30mio from selling exploration data to get a better ship. And so on.
Fighting and shredding those NPC's for more money seems the easiest way, specially in Combat Zones you can get rich in 1 or 2 hours. You just need to backup before you out of combat.
Playing on PC or XBox?
 

Achilles7

Banned
Hmm. I listened to that same Q&A, but I didn't come away feeling nearly as "down" as you. Indeed a few of their answers made me feel quite optimistic about the future-like more ways of gaining missions away from mission boards, smoother branching missions, having mission branches being optional. The only thing that left me a bit down was them saying they had nothing new to announce regarding passenger missions for 2.3. I shall wait & see, to be honest.

SLF's are brilliant, & I do really enjoy passenger missions....even if I feel they need more fleshing out.

Interesting thing, Vin. Season 1 Updates were very "meh" for me, personally, even if they were frequent. By contrast, even though season 2 updates are coming out much further apart (around 5 months), each one has packed 10 times more punch. As long as Season 3 offers something similar, then I will buy it in a heartbeat :).

Horses for courses then......as 2.2 is my FAVOURITE Update so far.....with 2.1 just slightly behind it. If 2.3 & 2.4 are even half as good as these 2, then I'll rank this season a huge success.....in spite of the unfortunate delays.

I think this clip is appropriate (don't worry mods, it's not a savage insult or anything :D)..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4spJxTCtS4
 
Do what other things? There's only fighting and deliveries. Well, and exploration, i suppose. Mining at a stretch.

That's already four other things - no matter whether you like them or not.

There is also Powerplay (I know, it's not very engaging right now, but it's there anyway), CQC (great fun, IMHO), CGs, playing the BGS (quite interesting, I hear) and smuggling. There is a ton of other stuff that you can do if you don't ignore player created events like SRV races or the fuel rats.

Engineers are only as grindy as you make them by solely focusing on this one little aspect of the game.
 
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And everytime that USS thingy whizzes past your window you have the option to engage with it or not. And if you do, it leads to about another 20 or so aspects of play. You could make a journey from A to B and never arrive...
 
Just because I am open-minded to acknowledge good parts of Eve Online doesn't make me an Eve-fanboy.



The hundreds of thousands of people who bought ED and stopped playing think otherwise.

By the way I've been a member and Elite Dangerous supporter on this forum (Join Date 06/01/2013) for much longer than you (Join Date 21/07/2015).

I started playing Elite in 1984. Do I win the argument?
 
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