Why is being a "prey" of a pirate in open a bad game design...

[MarkAusten]

Is

These complaints make sense. Since there are Pve players who also complain about Pvp players for breaking their Pve style of play. The difference is that Pve players have tools to counteract, and Pvp players do not have such tools. If Fdev had described the concept of open mode and the principle orientation of the game to Pve mode as accurately as possible at the very beginning of the development of this part of the game. Now there would be outrage among the players. Maybe some people wouldn't even buy it.

I have to confess that I don't understand that. How do these complaints make sense from either side. Surely from a PVP point of view the "problem" is not going to go away. Players are inaccessible even in Open mode due to instance restrictions and different platforms and if that were not the case, then the players could just be on the other side of the galaxy.

Still, I have to leave you here, I have to get back to my real job.

Fly safe commanders.

 

[wrmiller]

Pucker factor is something we military types sometimes refer to when in combat or combat training. For example, as a gunner on an MRAP in Mosul I was always on edge and hyper-alert, scanning constantly for threats. Some of that carried over for a short time, when I redeployed back to the States.

While that can only be simulated to a certain point in a video game, some folks like the pucker-factor in gaming, and those folks seek the cat-and-mouse piece with other players in-game - even if they're usually playing the role of the mouse.

When I'm PvP'ing, I prefer the role of the fox, stalking prey and striking them at times and location of my own choosing. If I'm hauling stuff, exploring, or mining, not so much.

Thankfully, Frontier gives us an option - and that's a good thing.

Once out of the military the only real 'pucker factor' moments for me were when I was riding a motorcycle, very fast, on a mountain road. Entering a decreasing radius turn with a knee on the road and hoping the tires hold to keep you from slamming into a mountain was a real pucker factor moment. Anything on a PC is just kid's stuff.

 

[Alsteif]

These complaints make sense. Since there are Pve players who also complain about Pvp players for breaking their Pve style of play. The difference is that Pve players have tools to counteract, and Pvp players do not have such tools. If Fdev had described the concept of open mode and the principle orientation of the game to Pve mode as accurately as possible at the very beginning of the development of this part of the game. Now there would be outrage among the players. Maybe some people wouldn't even buy it.

Oh, aboslutely! There are many, many different decisions, that Fdev made and can't change now. If some things apeared at the beggining of said thing's development, let's say Power play being open only - then the discussion would be fairly different. But it was made in a way, which allows everyone, from every mode, to participate in it. And it won't be changed, because it would be "taking PP away from people".
Same goes with anything else, really. In fact, i am beggining to think, that right now Elite can't change in almost any way. When it comes to the status quo between pvp and pve. Because there will always be one group, that will cry about the change.

 

[A C Ender]

I don't have time to read the entire thread now, but I'd like to make a quick point;

When I'm mining, I do it in Open, and if there's any pirates or gankers around, I am their content and provide possible enjoyment. But they are also -MY- content and provide enjoyment for me. How? They provide a thrill of possible attack even if I don't see them, and when I do see them, it become a game of avoiding them, providing a greater enjoyment still.

In Open, everyone is possible content for everyone. They are content for me, as I am for them. It's all about changing your perspective of what they give you. If you just get annoyed and think they're interrupting you, solo is a better option. If you want the excitement of the unknown and the thrill of not knowing what's going to happen, Open is great.

 

[GreySix]

Once out of the military the only real 'pucker factor' moments for me were when I was riding a motorcycle, very fast, on a mountain road. Entering a decreasing radius turn with a knee on the road and hoping the tires hold to keep you from slamming into a mountain was a real pucker factor moment. Anything on a PC is just kid's stuff.

Concur. Nothing in a video game possesses the ability to generate pucker-factor, and I'd assume the same for most (non-Fobbit) combat vets.

Ditto on the biking though - riding my BMW through Memphis over four years provided some pucker-factor.

 

[wrmiller]

Concur. Nothing in a video game possesses the ability to generate pucker-factor, and I'd assume the same for most (non-Fobbit) combat vets.

Ditto on the biking though - riding my BMW through Memphis over four years provided some pucker-factor.

After getting shot at, shot, stabbed, and darn near blown up by an artillery shell in the Corps, this stuff is just entertainment.

 

[MadSinUN]

Is

I have to confess that I don't understand that. How do these complaints make sense from either side. Surely from a PVP point of view the "problem" is not going to go away. Players are inaccessible even in Open mode due to instance restrictions and different platforms and if that were not the case, then the players could just be on the other side of the galaxy.

Still, I have to leave you here, I have to get back to my real job.

Fly safe commanders.

Look at the essence of the complaints. For each Pve player/PvP action in ED is its content, its game, its style, expectations, fantasy and immersion. When the Pvp player enters the open mode, he does not expect "semi-open", he expects "open mode" and his expectations from the combat collision are appropriate. The Pve player enters open mode with the desire not to participate in combat collisions with other players. If a Pvp player attacks a Pve player, it breaks the expectations and game of the Pve player. If the Pve player uses the provided "blocking" tools and the ability to quickly change the game mode to solo, the Pve player breaks expectations and the game for the Pvp player. So these claims make sense on both sides. I do not support gunkers/griffers (although bullies also have the right to be present). Therefore, I do not perceive the cries of these representatives of the Pvp style.

And good luck to you CMDR!)

 

[MadSinUN]

Oh, aboslutely! There are many, many different decisions, that Fdev made and can't change now. If some things apeared at the beggining of said thing's development, let's say Power play being open only - then the discussion would be fairly different. But it was made in a way, which allows everyone, from every mode, to participate in it. And it won't be changed, because it would be "taking PP away from people".
Same goes with anything else, really. In fact, i am beggining to think, that right now Elite can't change in almost any way. When it comes to the status quo between pvp and pve. Because there will always be one group, that will cry about the change.

Maybe someone will think I'm naive. But after two days of discussing this issue in two different branches, two Pve players decided to try an open mode for themselves. This is a small success for me). I really want the players to come together and start looking for a solution for everyone, both Pvp and Pve . That it would stop being a confrontation, that it would really become a common, open galaxy for all.

 

[wrmiller]

That it would stop being a confrontation, that it would really become a common, open galaxy for all.

All? Why? Some of us do not want to play computer games with strangers. Or are you just referring to those MMO types who shy away from playing in open?

 

[MadSinUN]

All? Why? Some of us do not want to play computer games with strangers. Or are you just referring to those MMO types who shy away from playing in open?

I mean those who play in open mode. Those who play solo and PG can continue to play there.

 

[Morbad]

Nothing in a video game possesses the ability to generate pucker-factor

If I couldn't feel what you describe from a game, I wouldn't have much reason to play them. I want that 'pucker factor', without having to put my actual self in harms way...I save that for less optional concerns.

 

[wrmiller]

If I couldn't feel what you describe from a game, I wouldn't have much reason to play them. I want that 'pucker factor', without having to put my actual self in harms way...I save that for less optional concerns.

What GreySix is describing cannot be felt from a game.

 

[A C Ender]

What GreySix is describing cannot be felt from a game.

Just because you cannot, doesn't mean it cannot. Not everyone have been trained to reduce stress response or been exposed to environments to the degree that they are used to it. A non fighting situation would be someone parachuting for the first time probably have a lot of adrenaline, compared to someone who go basejumping with wingsuits daily who might not feel it unless something go wrong.

 

[wrmiller]

Just because you cannot, doesn't mean it cannot. Not everyone have been trained to reduce stress response or been exposed to environments to the degree that they are used to it. A non fighting situation would be someone parachuting for the first time probably have a lot of adrenaline, compared to someone who go basejumping with wingsuits daily who might not feel it unless something go wrong.

Good point.

 

[GreySix]

If I couldn't feel what you describe from a game, I wouldn't have much reason to play them. I want that 'pucker factor', without having to put my actual self in harms way...I save that for less optional concerns.

Imagine most folks in the Western world who haven't experienced dangerous situations IRL as part of a profession or occupation seek thrills through various means. Can't speak for other nations, but less than one percent of Americans serve in any of the five branches of the US Armed Forces in any form or capacity at any one time, and less than ten percent ever have. Of those who have, only a small percentage of those have experienced direct-engagement or close-quarters combat.

Of course we also have LEOs and firefighters who face hazards as well, but for the most part - most Americans don't and won't face life-threatening danger as part of their chosen occupation. So its only natural that many such folks would seek adrenaline rushes through other outlets such as hazardous activities, sports, or online gaming.

For folks like me, its just a fun time-waster. We see no thrill from taking an under-armed vessel into open in games like ED - its just calculus: There's no logical reason we'd drive one armored HMMWV into downtown Mosul in the middle of the night on a red or black route, regardless of how well-armed we were - it would just be a stupid risk. Similarly, when playing games like ED similar calculus comes into play - i.e. taking an under-armed vessel not designed primarily for combat into an area rife with highly-engineered, triple-elite players looking for targets. We don't seek or need the pucker-factor, nor could anything in open provide it to us anyway, so we seek fun in our own way.

I do play PvP, usually in Star Citizen as part of org play on weekends, but that's more for camaraderie, team-building and just having fun. I'm sure other combat veterans PvP as well, but few get an adrenaline rush our pucker-factor out of it.

 

[Morbad]

There's no logical reason we'd drive one armored HMMWV into downtown Mosul in the middle of the night on a red or black route, regardless of how well-armed we were - it would just be a stupid risk.

This is one of my main complaints about ED. Even if I as a player can place certain constraints on my play that are rightly beyond the purview of my character (modes for example), the setting we have prevents me from playing a character that has any rational incentive to take on life threatening risk. Indeed, the game has no such risks.

So, I'm forced to compromise by having my character engage in less rational behavior and still getting a less acute thrill. It's much better than nothing though and much safer that looking for real-life danger, which I've had plenty of. Sure would be nice if the game could meet me half-way though.

 

[A C Ender]

This is one of my main complaints about ED. Even if I as a player can place certain constraints on my play that are rightly beyond the purview of my character (modes for example), the setting we have prevents me from playing a character that has any rational incentive to take on life threatening risk. Indeed, the game has no such risks.

So, I'm forced to compromise by having my character engage in less rational behavior and still getting a less acute thrill. It's much better than nothing though and much safer that looking for real-life danger, which I've had plenty of. Sure would be nice if the game could meet me half-way though.

Not that I'd want to chase you away from here, but perhaps another game would be able to provide you that thrill better?

I have have very infrequently got my adrenaline pumping by playing any game, the few times it's happened have been very narrow escapes of death in FPS/MMO PvP situations, where you know you only escaped alive due to luck. It's never been consistent however.

 

[Morbad]

Not that I'd want to chase you away from here, but perhaps another game would be able to provide you that thrill better?

If you can think of a first person fantasy space flight MMO that does this better than Elite: Dangerous and is actually out, I'm all ears.

 

[vapidaphid]

Working in retail has given me such a dislike of people, I do everything I can to avoid them. There's nothing that I can do in Open that I can't also do in Solo, but in Solo I have the added bonus of being by myself. For me it is a no-brainer. I can see the appeal for others to play together, but for me...no thanks.

 

[MadSinUN]

Not that I'd want to chase you away from here, but perhaps another game would be able to provide you that thrill better

The only worthy competitor for ED in a similar performance and genre is still in development.

For example, you live in a house. Another person lives in the same house. You really like this house, maybe even expensive because of what memories, etc.. But you don't like that your neighbor is Smoking, watching TV loudly, or burning car tires for fun and you have to breathe this smoke. What will you do? Will you leave this house? Why do many people offer to leave? Do you really think this is the way out?