Why isn't this in the game?

[SlickReed]

Lol good jump avoiding the point!



Given that the only Eve mechanic I mentioned was the ability to form fleets/wings, which Elite has copied... The rest are all just indications that this is predominantly a single player game, which you are denying.

ELite IS at the core a single player game. If you revert back to my older post you will see me stating this. It's a single player game with co op and PVP mechanics. Are you trying to bring up that old subject from the first page of this thread? I thought that was pretty clear.

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Lol good jump avoiding the point!



Given that the only Eve mechanic I mentioned was the ability to form fleets/wings, which Elite has copied... The rest are all just indications that this is predominantly a single player game, which you are denying.

I think you should try wing in Elite and then try Fleet in a EVE and come back to this thread. In EVE you can slave your warp drive to a 1500 man fleet, in eve you can lock on to any pilots ship ANY where in a system and instantly warp to that ship, even in dead space. In eve. You can communicate with pilots anywhere in space ( even in warp) instantly without any radio break up in comms. Do you believe this is exactly how Elite does wings?

EVEs fleet mechanic is not a space sim wing mechanic at all, it's a run of the mill MMO raid group mechanics that's exist is every MMO on the market. I original ask for a game with a wing mechanic like the real sim one we have currently in Elite. I have yet to see this example.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

ELite IS at the core a single player game. If you revert back to my older post you will see me stating this. It's a single player game with co op and PVP mechanics. Are you trying to bring up that old subject from the first page of this thread? I thought that was pretty clear.

This was your response to someone commenting on Elite being, essentially, a single player game:

No it's not, and there the argument ends, your a troll looking for an argument to your comment, pathetic!!

I think you should try wing in Elite and then try Fleet in a EVE and come back to this thread. In EVE you can slave your warp drive to a 1500 man fleet, in eve you can lock on to any pilots ship ANY where in a system and instantly warp to that ship, even in dead space. In eve. You can communicate with pilots anywhere in space ( even in warp) instantly without any radio break up in comms. Do you believe this is exactly how Elite does wings?

EVEs fleet mechanic is not a space sim wing mechanic at all, it's a run of the mill MMO raid group mechanics that's exist is every MMO on the market. I original ask for a game with a wing mechanic like the real sim one we have currently in Elite. I have yet to see this example.

Elite's wing mechanics are in no way unique, I'd even go so far as to say they're very basic. The only difference is that you control the "warp", it is no different to say forming a party in WoW and walking/flying over to your party members.

Except in WoW once you reach your party members, you'd probably have something to do with them

 

[Traven Mayhem]

I think you should try wing in Elite and then try Fleet in a EVE and come back to this thread. In EVE you can slave your warp drive to a 1500 man fleet, in eve you can lock on to any pilots ship ANY where in a system and instantly warp to that ship, even in dead space. In eve. You can communicate with pilots anywhere in space ( even in warp) instantly without any radio break up in comms. Do you believe this is exactly how Elite does wings?

Uhh.. in elite you can slave your SC drive to a wing mate, you can also instantly SC to a wing mate from anywhere in a system (though most have not seemed to figure out how yet).. In EVE you cannot warp in deadspace, and you can only warp into a deadspace beacon. In elite, you can communicate with pilots anywhere in space via txt -- as long as their P2P architechture is able to reach the other client. As for radio break up, i mean.. it's just a static effect applied to all comms.

Your examples are poor. EVE and Elite wing/fleet mechanics are pretty similar in capability, except for numbers of members allowed. (4 vs 256)

 

[SlickReed]

Uhh.. in elite you can slave your SC drive to a wing mate, you can also instantly SC to a wing mate from anywhere in a system (though most have not seemed to figure out how yet).. In EVE you cannot warp in deadspace, and you can only warp into a deadspace beacon. In elite, you can communicate with pilots anywhere in space via txt -- as long as their P2P architechture is able to reach the other client. As for radio break up, i mean.. it's just a static effect applied to all comms.

Your examples are poor. EVE and Elite wing/fleet mechanics are pretty similar in capability, except for numbers of members allowed. (4 vs 256)

The point I was making with the difference in warp is in EVE you can instantly warp a 1500 man fleet, you cannot do this in elite, you follow a person in a wing to another star. In EVE you CAN warp in dead space, either WARP TO or create a magical save point to warp to anywhere in a system. In Elite a player has to exit SC then light a wing beacon for you to find there location and this does not land you on top of them like a WARP TO ZERO in EVE.

EVEs fleet mechanics are based on MMO typical rules. Elite did not go that route, and for that I am thankful.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

The point I was making with the difference in warp is in EVE you can instantly warp a 1500 man fleet, you cannot do this in elite, you follow a person in a wing to another star. In EVE you CAN warp in dead space, either WARP TO or create a magical save point to warp to anywhere in a system. In Elite a player has to exit SC then light a wing beacon for you to find there location and this does not land you on top of them like a WARP TO ZERO in EVE.

EVEs fleet mechanics are based on MMO typical rules. Elite did not go that route, and for that I am thankful.

The only difference is that you control your ship during travel between two points. It is still just rudimentary MMO party mechanics.

 

[SlickReed]

This was your response to someone commenting on Elite being, essentially, a single player game:





Elite's wing mechanics are in no way unique, I'd even go so far as to say they're very basic. The only difference is that you control the "warp", it is no different to say forming a party in WoW and walking/flying over to your party members.

Except in WoW once you reach your party members, you'd probably have something to do with them

Never said Elite wing mechanic is unique in any way, just that they FDEV did it it's own way, nice try changing the subject tho
EVE and Elite are both in space and like any video game ever with mutiplayer or co op there is the ability to group up in some way. If this is the point you are trying to make I can safely say this is a well known fact.

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The only difference is that you control your ship during travel between two points. It is still just rudimentary MMO party mechanics.

Being able to only warp from point to point or gate to gate like you do in EVE is the exact same as being able to jump to or super cruise to any point in any system at any time as far as your fuel will carry you are the same things? I guess we have very differnt views on actual freedom travel

 

[Simi Kusoni]

Never said Elite wing mechanic is unique in any way, just that they FDEV did it it's own way, nice try changing the subject tho
EVE and Elite are both in space and like any video game ever with mutiplayer or co op there is the ability to group up in some way. If this is the point you are trying to make I can safely say this is a well known fact.

My point was that Elite, a game being presented as a sandbox MMO, launched without the capacity to form parties. Even now it has that capacity, it has no content for parties to actually engage in.

Hence this comment, that you dismissed as trolling, having some merit:

You said it yourself, OP. Because it is essentially a single player game. And a half-baked one.

Perhaps you think the single player is extremely in depth, and enjoy the broken missions and NPC trading. But he is entitled to his opinion, and I'm inclined to agree with him.

 

[Malloryn]

Aside from fuel, bullets, ships and ship upgrades, players don't purchase anything. Players don't produce any of those things either, so there isn't any player controlled economy. My understanding is that players to contribute in some small way to the prices when they trade, but that seems very limited given our population when compared to the NPCs.

Will there ever be any player crafted items and ability to trade those in game? If the fear is of gold traders ruining the game, then I'd guess the answer will be "nope". While gold farmers did impact the economy in World of Warcraft, I think you'd be hard pressed to say they ruined the game (given the continued player base willing to spend $15/month to play the game).

At the end of the day, it feels to me like a depth of game issue.

 

[SlickReed]

My point was that Elite, a game being presented as a sandbox MMO, launched without the capacity to form parties. Even now it has that capacity, it has no content for parties to actually engage in.

Hence this comment, that you dismissed as trolling, having some merit:

Never called you a troll, I think that was the other guy. Elite has always ( even in beta) gave players the ability to fly together. " hey I am headed to X station wanna meet me there? Sure I am heading there now". What exacty was stopping anyone from doing this in the game before? Wings is great for the game, but lets be honest all it does is allow players to see/track eachother. From your logic, pilots could not fly together EVER until 1.2 for released and this is simply not true. FD made is alot easier to do so but it was easy to do before wings.

[video=youtube;S9WOm9COijg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9WOm9COijg[/video]

 

[Poseidal]

Why cant we ride horses through the station?

When ship-walking / station-walking becomes a thing, I want this. I will have a stable on ship, then use it to ride up to the local security office to pay fines, and get fines in some stations for transporting live animals.

The disadvantage of the stable is it fills your hold with bio-waste slowly over time.

Thanks to Imperial genetic engineering, you can also buy an Imperial Unicorn for many credits.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

Never called you a troll, I think that was the other guy. Elite has always ( even in beta) gave players the ability to fly together. " hey I am headed to X station wanna meet me there? Sure I am heading there now". What exacty was stopping anyone from doing this in the game before? Wings is great for the game, but lets be honest all it does is allow players to see/track eachother. From your logic, pilots could not fly together EVER until 1.2 for released and this is simply not true. FD made is alot easier to do so but it was easy to do before wings.

I know your comment was aimed at the other guy, I was defending his position.

And yes, Elite had the capacity to fly together prior to wings. Sort of, ignoring instancing issues and the lack of effective in game comms.

I'll also agree that there isn't really anything you need wings for: flying to and from stations and RES farming does not really necessitate a wing of players, and even the "strong signal sources" are usually either worthless or capable of being done solo.

So basically I guess my point is that the guy you called a troll is right, and while his comment didn't exactly go into detail for some of us the game is a half baked single player game with rudimentary multi-player functionality tacked on.

 

[SlickReed]

So basically I guess my point is that the guy you called a troll is right, and while his comment didn't exactly go into detail for some of us the game is a half baked single player game with rudimentary multi-player functionality tacked on.

I did not call the other guy a troll either so to keep the discussion from become a flame war I respectfully ask you to refrain from using such a term. In response to the rest of your comment, Elite Dangerous has always been( AFAIK) a follow up game from the older Elite titles with multiplayer open world as a addition to everything else the Elite series is at its core, which brings me to the same question, what exactly were you expecting? From your previous post it seems to me that you expected ED to be like every other MMO you have played in the past? This is the wrong way to look at any new game from any developer EVER. FD is making the game THEY want to make not the game YOU want them to make.

If you like the way other games handle multiplayer then why not play those games?

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Aside from fuel, bullets, ships and ship upgrades, players don't purchase anything. Players don't produce any of those things either, so there isn't any player controlled economy. My understanding is that players to contribute in some small way to the prices when they trade, but that seems very limited given our population when compared to the NPCs.

Will there ever be any player crafted items and ability to trade those in game? If the fear is of gold traders ruining the game, then I'd guess the answer will be "nope". While gold farmers did impact the economy in World of Warcraft, I think you'd be hard pressed to say they ruined the game (given the continued player base willing to spend $15/month to play the game).

At the end of the day, it feels to me like a depth of game issue.

Agreed, until ED has more ways to get ships and modules like crafting or missions, being able to buy cr is a terribly idea.

 

[Ragnvald]

I know your comment was aimed at the other guy, I was defending his position.

And yes, Elite had the capacity to fly together prior to wings. Sort of, ignoring instancing issues and the lack of effective in game comms.

I'll also agree that there isn't really anything you need wings for: flying to and from stations and RES farming does not really necessitate a wing of players, and even the "strong signal sources" are usually either worthless or capable of being done solo.

So basically I guess my point is that the guy you called a troll is right, and while his comment didn't exactly go into detail for some of us the game is a half baked single player game with rudimentary multi-player functionality tacked on.

Guess that's what it's leading up to. Aside from teaming up and killing pirates in a wing there's not much we can do in MP. We can chat, sure or fly together. Do a bit of dogfighting but that's it. We can't share the missions we do, the profit we earned with mining or trading. That's basically what I'm trying to say. To make this a more MP world there has to be certain things like trading between players.

I've ran with a friend last night doing rare commodities and it felt as if I was playing the game with a ghost. There was no interaction other than his ship being there at the station and his name in the Contacts list.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

I did not call the other guy a troll either so to keep the discussion from become a flame war I respectfully ask you to refrain from using such a term. In response to the rest of your comment, Elite Dangerous has always been( AFAIK) a follow up game from the older Elite titles with multiplayer open world as a addition to everything else the Elite series is at its core, which brings me to the same question, what exactly were you expecting? From your previous post it seems to me that you expected ED to be like every other MMO you have played in the past? This is the wrong way to look at any new game from any developer EVER. FD is making the game THEY want to make not the game YOU want them to make.

Sorry, you said he was trolling: mea culpa.

What I was expecting was a single player game with some kind of challenge, perhaps an in depth trading system and, given their sales pitch on the ED home page, the capacity to engage in other activities such as piracy or single player missions that actually work and engage the player. Meaningful exploration that wasn't just jumping from one procedurally generated system to another would have been cool too, from what I can tell very few players actually bother with exploration currently.

And yes, I was also expecting the capacity to engage in a multi-player environment that actually involved meaningful interaction with other players. I apologise for being so ignorant as to assume that ED was going to be like "every other MMO" and include actual content.

If you like the way other games handle multiplayer then why not play those games?

Because I paid £40 for this game?

Oh wait, you think the game is great so all the mediocre reviews and dissatisfied customers should shush and go away :/ Thank you white knight, for correcting me in my sinful ways.

Don't get me wrong, the graphics in ED are great. As is the flight system, and some things are well put together like docking/undocking, subsytem targeting is neat. But it lacks actual content, and much of the content it does have has serious balancing issues and other aspects are still plagued by game breaking bugs and poorly implemented mechanics many months after release (assassination missions spring to mind).

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Guess that's what it's leading up to. Aside from teaming up and killing pirates in a wing there's not much we can do in MP. We can chat, sure or fly together. Do a bit of dogfighting but that's it. We can't share the missions we do, the profit we earned with mining or trading. That's basically what I'm trying to say. To make this a more MP world there has to be certain things like trading between players.

I've ran with a friend last night doing rare commodities and it felt as if I was playing the game with a ghost. There was no interaction other than his ship being there at the station and his name in the Contacts list.

You know, I actually forgot mining even exists.

 

[Ragnvald]

You know, I actually forgot mining even exists.

That's what dragged me into this game. And some more features they promised. Still happy about the game, but sad it's not as worked out as it should've been.

 

[Soulstain]

Correction, FD didn't release the game with the mechanics YOU want. From the beginning of the KS and all previous Elite games, it has always been a single player game. I think alot of players bought a game thinking it was something it wasn't. This is not CCP that bends to the will of one small side of the player base.

Caveat Emptor

No, but they did admit it was released with mining in a bare bones state. He is basically asking what many of us have asked. When is it going to be fleshed out? He just had one idea for the fleshing out. Picking up individual pieces of rock in a billion dollar space ship is infintile and only designed to be a time sink.

 

[SlickReed]

Sorry, you said he was trolling: mea culpa.

What I was expecting was a single player game with some kind of challenge, perhaps an in depth trading system and, given their sales pitch on the ED home page, the capacity to engage in other activities such as piracy or single player missions that actually work and engage the player. Meaningful exploration that wasn't just jumping from one procedurally generated system to another would have been cool too, from what I can tell very few players actually bother with exploration currently.

Again, that was the other guy calling someone a troll, you should read the previous post again maybe? In exploration you fly to different systems and scan stuff what exactly were you expecting, some type of mini game? Is having your name on a system as first discovered by not meaningful enough for you? I have been on a 2 week long exploration trip covering over 4k lys so maybe you can add me to the "few" you know. As far as missions, you go to the station- get a mission- return after the mission is complete, what exactly were you expecting? Sound like you are just complaining to complain really.

I do believe ED has its faults, but not enough to cry on the forums about.

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Picking up individual pieces of rock in a billion dollar space ship is infintile and only designed to be a time sink.

All games are time sinks, can you name any MMO that is not? Do you have a better example of mining or are you here to just complain about the direction FD went with it?

 

[Jaeger]

Yes OP you have highlighted the second greatest failing of E D. Unfortunately it's a clone of the 30 year old game with no added sophistication.. nothing tangible anyway like a crafting or equipment economy. Suck it up and enjoy the endless proceduraly generated galaxy.

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I do believe ED has its faults, but not enough to cry on the forums about.

That's what the forums are for.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

Again, that was the other guy calling someone a troll, you should read the previous post again maybe? In exploration you fly to different systems and scan stuff what exactly were you expecting, some type of mini game? Is having your name on a system as first discovered by not meaningful enough for you? I have been on a 2 week long exploration trip covering over 4k lys so maybe you can add me to the "few" you know. As far as missions, you go to the station- get a mission- return after the mission is complete, what exactly were you expecting? Sound like you are just complaining to complain really.

I do believe ED has its faults, but not enough to cry on the forums about.

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All games are time sinks, can you name any MMO that is not? Do you have a better example of mining or are you here to just complain about the direction FD went with it?

I'm going to go ahead and assume you haven't done missions in ED. Either that or your standards for a £40 game are set really, really low.

But yeah, I get that you're defending the game, but "what were you expecting" is not constructive. We've said what is lacking, what we are unhappy with in the game and what needs improving. White knighting isn't really achieving anything, unless you are trying to get us to magically change our minds and decide the missions are fun after. And hey, maybe the assassination missions aren't broken and piracy and mining aren't pointless tiresome endeavours. I'm glad we had this conversation!

And FYI it is not "complaining to complain" just because we find major aspects of the game to be about as interesting as dipping a blender.

 

[SlickReed]

I'm going to go ahead and assume you haven't done missions in ED. Either that or your standards for a £40 game are set really, really low.

But yeah, I get that you're defending the game, but "what were you expecting" is not constructive. We've said what is lacking, what we are unhappy with in the game and what needs improving. White knighting isn't really achieving anything, unless you are trying to get us to magically change our minds and decide the missions are fun after. And hey, maybe the assassination missions aren't broken and piracy and mining aren't pointless tiresome endeavours. I'm glad we had this conversation!

And FYI it is not "complaining to complain" just because we find major aspects of the game to be about as interesting as dipping a blender.

Your whining isn't helping either. Do you have any suggestions about missions to improve them? I am a post commander with the Federation so I think its safe to say I have done a good amount of missions. I have never came across a "broken" one like i seen in beta. As I said before all you are doing is whining and throwing your toys unless you have some real constructive way to improve the systems you don't like.

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Yes OP you have highlighted the second greatest failing of E D. Unfortunately it's a clone of the 30 year old game with no added sophistication.. nothing tangible anyway like a crafting or equipment economy. Suck it up and enjoy the endless proceduraly generated galaxy.

That's a great attitude CMDR. Really helping with the games progression.