Why kill new CMDRS?

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

Hmmm. So those players who camp at starter stations and instakill defenceless sidewinders... They use the term care-bear for anyone using solo "cheat mode" (*their* language, not mine).

What you're saying is that it is only *them* that are "allowed" to use the term care-bear - as a derogatory term - for others escaping their insta-killing - by using "cheat mode"? Is this what you are trying to say?


So, what about those who "cheat" and go after defenceless "easy" targets in massively superior ships at spawn sites? These targets are even easier to kill than NPCs who are programmed to at least react "appropriately" to hostile fire. You know - the same NPCs that those who enter solo mode will face. So here we have spawn camping that, in reality, is *easier* going than the so called "care-bear" mode that those same players throw vehemently at those who escape them using an intelligently designed mode of play - what could really be more fitting as a description of their cheating and easy mode play than the very term they use themselves? Killing noob CMDRs and then using the term care-bear is utter hypocrisy. If you are familiar with the term hypocrisy, then you'll also understand that the term care-bear also has meaning in the reverse sense as those that use it.




Someone else said "kill or be killed". In this context I cannot believe their plain unadulterated stupidity. Please explain how a noob CMDR in a Sidewinder and with very little experience of this game can kill a seasoned player in a PvP combat optimised larger vessel.


We are discussing the deliberate targeting of noobs at spawn sites. An indefensible and very low tactic. "The game allows it blah, blah, blah" where have we heard this before? Oh yeah. Developers have gone on record before stating in no uncertain terms that this behaviour is not one which they see as part of their game, so that notion of "game allows it" is moot, at best. And yet quite a few people still use the justification as if it is an OK thing to do. It is really as if they want to be the big fish in the small pond by encouraging new players to either stay out of open or quite the game altogether. What are we - 5 year olds in the playground bullying people out of " their spot".


Simple fact here is that spawn camping is not acceptable. Never has been. Never will be. No amount of *noise* can change that fact.


Cheerz


Mark H

Look, buddy... If you want to use words in a way that no one else uses them then you are 100% free to do so, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously. That's all I have to say on this point.


"So, what about those who "cheat" and go after defenceless "easy" targets in massively superior ships at spawn sites?"


Haha... 'cheat'... Now if that's not disingenuous language I don't know what is.


"Killing noob CMDRs and then using the term care-bear is utter hypocrisy."


No because the term has a specific commonly accepted meaning that is different than the one you are trying to foist on us. A griefer is not a carebear because a carebear refers specifically to someone who avoids pvp. If you want to be taken seriously you are not free to choose any definition of the word you want just because (in your mind) it is similar in some way to the accepted definition. If you invent a definition and then accuse me of having a double standard because I do not subscribe to that definition that does not make me a hypocrite; it makes you a disingenuous person who is playing with words for his own gain.

""The game allows it blah, blah, blah" where have we heard this before? Oh yeah. Developers have gone on record before stating in no uncertain terms that this behaviour is not one which they see as part of their game, so that notion of "game allows it" is moot, at best. And yet quite a few people still use the justification as if it is an OK thing to do. It is really as if they want to be the big fish in the small pond by encouraging new players to either stay out of open or quite the game altogether. What are we - 5 year olds in the playground bullying people out of " their spot"."

All of which is completely compatible with the statement that griefing, spawn camping, etc. are allowed. The devs want to fix the problem by providing more appropriate in-game mechanics to deal with it; not by getting out the ban hammer.

"Simple fact here is that spawn camping is not acceptable. Never has been. Never will be. No amount of *noise* can change that fact."

I agree. It is an absolutely pointless and nasty thing to do to someone who is just starting the game. However the other simple fact here that will never change is that it is allowed.


“An indefensible and very low tactic”
Indefensible as a player; totally defensible as a legitimate choice, even as I disapprove of it as a player. Everyone is free at every time to do anything for any reason no matter how low it is in your opinion. The only restrictions on this freedom are (a) legal restrictions, and (b) the TOS, including but not limited to cheating, obscene language, etc.

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

Oh dear. Seem to have struck a raw nerve there.

So now the justification for killing noob CMDRs is that killing noob CMDRs doesn't really happen?
Well. <ahem>
Actually.
It does.

Witness this quote from a previous page in this thread:



So, me continuing this thread is not the *real* problem. I'm just doing the honourable thing - what *ought to be done* - in highlighting that players who kill new CMDRs are, amongst a few other things, creating a problem for Open play mode. You know, the very mode that is so precious to PvP players, such as yourself, it would appear. That is the *real* problem here. To me, it appears that you want to argue to justify the actions of people who are damaging the number of potential PvP Open players. Which is lacking in analysis on your part, it would seem.
.
By all means call me a kinderplayer, I'm not at all phased by that. In fact, I kinda like it, LOL. It fits me like my well worn white leather flying gloves.
.
But telling me to get out of this thread. Now that is not something that you can really ask of me. I'm guessing that you like to PvP in the game. Why not on here? Is the logical truth too much for you to bear, or something?
.
I don't just *want* to coin the term care-bear. I already did. It already happened. It is now a thing. It is the most apt and fitting description of those loathsome individuals who want to subvert the game by playing in a mode that is even easier than solo mode. You know - the original care-bear mode. If it is logically even easier than that, then it comes under the same definition. Your anguish is doubled.

Cheerz

When we can get them, we fight griefers. Mostly none have turned up in the past weeks, so we spend our time fighting other groups or in combat community goals.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I advise everyone to completely ignore Rampant; while there was some semblance of sanity in his previous arguments, at this point he's just become a complete and utter troll.

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

Why do people like to hunt us Explorers? We open new systems by providing comprehensive information about them. Stop at a station I've been to, & you get the info. Stick a missile up my ass & you get nothing. Frontier needs to clamp down on griefing, because people will leave the game, and tell others, who won't buy it, depriving Frontier of business. Griefing and murder hurt the bottom line, pure and simple.

They should definitely, but with game mechanics, not rules. Even as a non-griefer it would be a huge turnoff for me if they suddenly started telling us what kind of PvP is and is not allowed. I would probably quit the game.

 

[xondk]

Open play mode. You know, the very mode that is so precious to PvP players, such as yourself, it would appear. That is the *real* problem here. To me, it appears that you want to argue to justify the actions of people who are damaging the number of potential PvP Open players.

This exactly, yet for some reason to some people they don't realize that by ruthlessly and needlessly destroying those that have no chance to defending themselves, instead of the many other options available to do towards them, they are actually doing the harm to themselves if the really want more people in open.
People don't seem to think that ruthless is anything more then killing people, but there are a ton of other ways to be ruthless, even more ruthless then slaying.

This has nothing to do with the people in open are weaker or worse fighters then anyone else, they just don't find getting ganked for no other reason then some kid laughing at them, fun, so they avoid it, to get more people in open, get the griefers to stop griefing and be actual pirates that hunt for money not kills.

 

[OZYMANDlUS]

Unfortunately you get a lot of this on any popular online game, GTA v is rife with it, I remember back when the first Halo was current, I went on a beginners server and was trolled by a high ranker who felt like hurling abuse at me whilst he did it, it didn't seem to occur to him the reason I was crap was cause I was a beginner Tw@s may have to pop over there in my alternate gt , the one with the harmless rank.. Might even be fun.
Just imagine a wing of A rated sideys kicking ass and taking names, is there an upper limit to wings?

4 is the maximum number for Player Character Wings.

-Ozy

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

This exactly, yet for some reason to some people they don't realize that by ruthlessly and needlessly destroying those that have no chance to defending themselves, instead of the many other options available to do towards them, they are actually doing the harm to themselves if the really want more people in open.
People don't seem to think that ruthless is anything more then killing people, but there are a ton of other ways to be ruthless, even more ruthless then slaying.

This has nothing to do with the people in open are weaker or worse fighters then anyone else, they just don't find getting ganked for no other reason then some kid laughing at them, fun, so they avoid it, to get more people in open, get the griefers to stop griefing and be actual pirates that hunt for money not kills.

I agree. The trouble is that piracy is not a viable way of making money. At present the only meaningful form of PvP is killing people.

 

[OZYMANDlUS]

I agree. The trouble is that piracy is not a viable way of making money. At present the only meaningful form of PvP is killing people.

Really???? If you are so interested in being a "Pirate" wouldn't it be far more intelligent and lucrative in the end to just shoot out someones's drives? Or even drop their shields and use a hatchbreaker limpet? By blowing people up needlessly you just drive them to solo. Thereby taking away your prefered 'targets'. If you want "meaningful" PvP, then go fight other players in similar ships. Then it would a test of skill instead of bullying someone in a ship that has no chance of beating you. Besides, the point of this thread is not about picking a fight with experienced CMDRs. The point is those that deliberately go after new players (or the derogetory term "noob") who barely have learned to dock let alone fight. There is no "meaningful" PvP to be had with such acts. They are nothing more than self-grafitifying acts of bullying. I care not, whatever dysfunctional issue the individual commiting said acts has. I really can care less if their Mommy & Daddy didn't give them enough affection. As the saying goes, "What is the maximum effective range of an excuse?" answer: ZERO.

As I have said before people who commit such acts should just be given the boot. In the long term interest of building a thriving gaming community.

-Ozy

 

[Comrade Error]

Really???? If you are so interested in being a "Pirate" wouldn't it be far more intelligent and lucrative in the end to shut shoot out someones's drives? Or even drop their shields and use a hatchbreaker limpet? By blowing people up needlessly you just drive them to solo. Thereby taking away your prefered 'tarfets'. If you want "meaningful" PvP, then go fight other players in similar ships. Then it would a test of skill instead of bullying soneone in a ship that has no chance of beating you. Besides, the point of this thread is not about picking a fight with experienced CMDRs. The point is those that deliberately go after new players (or the derogetory term "noob") who barely have learned to dock let alone fight. There is no "meaningful" PvP to be had with such acts. They are nothing more than self-grafitifying acts of bullying. I care not whatever dysfunctional issue the individual commiting said acts has. I really can care less if their Mommy & Daddy didn't give them enough affection. As the saying goes, "What is the maximum effective range of an excuse?" answer: ZERO.

As I have said before people who commit such acts shoukd jusy be given the boot. In the long term interest of building a thriving gaming community.

-Ozy

He does have a point Ozy. Piracy was never my main form of income, it was trading/smuggeling. I would pirate for fun and do trading when I needed money, same thing could be done if you do want to kill noobs for no reason at all and you would come out of it just as rich.

Altough I do not at all agree with going around and killing what I hope some time in the future when FDev does make piracy viable source of profit and driving them into solo.

 

[OZYMANDlUS]

He does have a point Ozy. Piracy was never my main form of income, it was trading/smuggeling. I would pirate for fun and do trading when I needed money, same thing could be done if you do want to kill noobs for no reason at all and you would come out of it just as rich.

Altough I do not at all agree with going around and killing what I hope some time in the future when FDev does make piracy viable source of profit and driving them into solo.

I understand Piracy is broke. Probably why I don't do it. I tried it against NPCs when I first started playing. More hassle than it was worth. IF I ever decided to pirate another CMDR, I surely wouldn't kill them just because. I guess the old adage: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" doesn't mean what it used to. I wouldn't mind being pirated for in game reasoning. But being griefed is a whole different thing entirely.

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

Really???? If you are so interested in being a "Pirate" wouldn't it be far more intelligent and lucrative in the end to just shoot out someones's drives? Or even drop their shields and use a hatchbreaker limpet? By blowing people up needlessly you just drive them to solo. Thereby taking away your prefered 'targets'. If you want "meaningful" PvP, then go fight other players in similar ships. Then it would a test of skill instead of bullying someone in a ship that has no chance of beating you. Besides, the point of this thread is not about picking a fight with experienced CMDRs. The point is those that deliberately go after new players (or the derogetory term "noob") who barely have learned to dock let alone fight. There is no "meaningful" PvP to be had with such acts. They are nothing more than self-grafitifying acts of bullying. I care not, whatever dysfunctional issue the individual commiting said acts has. I really can care less if their Mommy & Daddy didn't give them enough affection. As the saying goes, "What is the maximum effective range of an excuse?" answer: ZERO.

As I have said before people who commit such acts should just be given the boot. In the long term interest of building a thriving gaming community.

-Ozy

Believe me; plenty of people would like to, but there is no incentive for it. If you want to PvP, you might as well just kill people because there is practically no money in it either way.

"I really can care less if their Mommy & Daddy didn't give them enough affection."
This is an unconvincing assumption to begin with, not to mention highly dismissive and narrow-minded.

"As I have said before people who commit such acts should just be given the boot. In the long term interest of building a thriving gaming community."
You've made your opinion known. It's not going to happen, so give it up.

 

[ProdigyOrion]

Is this on Xbox? I'd be happy to change my ways

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

I understand Piracy is broke. Probably why I don't do it. I tried it against NPCs when I first started playing. More hassle than it was worth. IF I ever decided to pirate another CMDR, I surely wouldn't kill them just because. I guess the old adage: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" doesn't mean what it used to. I wouldn't mind being pirated for in game reasoning. But being griefed is a whole different thing entirely.

I don't care if someone randomly attacks me. Indeed, I wish it happened more often. I think I've been attacked maybe two times (outside of a conflict zone) in the entire time I've played this game by players who were not known members of enemy groups.

 

[AcademicDust894]

The first CG I took part in was the Onionhead one. bought myself an asp, kitted it out & went on my way with my 8t. jumped in at final destination, interdicted by a wing of two players . message to stop. then was shot to bits instantly. Told player to give a bit more time for us to type in chat before shooting. player appologised. I wasn't annoyed his first time pirating we are all learning. second run got left with 1% hull & 30 seconds of air left when I touched down. That was exciting. player appologised his warning shot had done alot more damage than he thought. No worries. At this point I removed all my weapons & done the rest of CG unarmed. I got pirated all week on & off. most were happy with half the cargo & let me on my way. one players message 'No weapons???? Keep cargo, safe journey'
A honourable man.
The very last run of the CG got interdicted, comms lit up with ' Dont care about cargo just like killing players ha ha ha! etc.' Rebuy screen. this player is sure to have had his pride swell over his kill. then rage quits or combat logs when things dont go thier way.
The few bad eggs wont spoil my enjoyment of the game. The credits aint real just like your glory.

 

[xondk]

I agree. The trouble is that piracy is not a viable way of making money. At present the only meaningful form of PvP is killing people.

He does have a point Ozy. Piracy was never my main form of income, it was trading/smuggeling. I would pirate for fun and do trading when I needed money, same thing could be done if you do want to kill noobs for no reason at all and you would come out of it just as rich.

Altough I do not at all agree with going around and killing what I hope some time in the future when FDev does make piracy viable source of profit and driving them into solo.

Just FYI both of you, 1.5/2.0 has given an enormous boost to piracy, NPC's are quite valuable to pirate now...so yeah.

 

[OZYMANDlUS]

Believe me; plenty of people would like to, but there is no incentive for it. If you want to PvP, you might as well just kill people because there is practically no money in it either way.

"I really can care less if their Mommy & Daddy didn't give them enough affection."
This is an unconvincing assumption to begin with, not to mention highly dismissive and narrow-minded.

"As I have said before people who commit such acts should just be given the boot. In the long term interest of building a thriving gaming community."
You've made your opinion known. It's not going to happen, so give it up.

The Mommy & Daddy comment was meant to be dismissive. That was the point of it. As making money PvPing. I guess it is the best well kept secret in ED that you earn credits for kills and victories in CQC. there is a level playing field (more or less). Granted doing well and progressing in rank does give you access to better & more varied loadouts. My opinion will not change. Nor will I change it. It is just a matter of core values. Just like I believe the American justice system is far too lenient to convicted murderers. I believe once someone commits murder and is found guilty, there sentanced is carried out the very next day. With there being only one sentence for murder. Death in the exact manner you killed another. That means if you tortured someone for a week before killing them you are tortured for a week then executed. If you starved someone to death; your punishment is death by starvation. I know that opinion is unpopular, but it would be very effective at eliminating useless incarceration. Just think of all the space that would be emptied by eliminating murderers.

-Ozy

 

[Bieltan]

So, are these griefers often winged up, or do they tend to fly solo? Gathering some buddies and ganking the gankers seems like it could be fun...

 

[OZYMANDlUS]

So, are these griefers often winged up, or do they tend to fly solo? Gathering some buddies and ganking the gankers seems like it could be fun...

They are usually winged up. They tend to gank in the same system and picking on the smallest craft by themselves. But if one doesn't immediately role over and die, then buddies jump in on the action.

 

[Bieltan]

They are usually winged up. They tend to gank in the same system and picking on the smallest craft by themselves. But if one doesn't immediately role over and die, then buddies jump in on the action.

Oh wow thats pathetic. Might have to start sparring with my buddies whilst I wait for them to get better ships, Im assuming these gankers all have Pythons/Condas/FDLs yes?

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

The Mommy & Daddy comment was meant to be dismissive. That was the point of it. As making money PvPing. I guess it is the best well kept secret in ED that you earn credits for kills and victories in CQC. there is a level playing field (more or less). Granted doing well and progressing in rank does give you access to better & more varied loadouts. My opinion will not change. Nor will I change it. It is just a matter of core values. Just like I believe the American justice system is far too lenient to convicted murderers. I believe once someone commits murder and is found guilty, there sentanced is carried out the very next day. With there being only one sentence for murder. Death in the exact manner you killed another. That means if you tortured someone for a week before killing them you are tortured for a week then executed. If you starved someone to death; your punishment is death by starvation. I know that opinion is unpopular, but it would be very effective at eliminating useless incarceration. Just think of all the space that would be emptied by eliminating murderers.

-Ozy

Yeah, you earn credits for victorys in CQC... like 10k a match. Wow. Let's see how long it will take to earn enough to buy anything with that, shall we? Call a match seven minutes. That's 10,000*60/7 cr/h, which is about 85.7k cr/h. Now, a vulture costs around 5m. My outfitted vulture is around 30m. So to afford my vulture, you would have to play around 350 hours (14.6 days) of CQC. Or you could just go grind a RES for three hours. How about an Anaconda? 146m for the stock version alone. That's about 17 hundred hours, or 70 DAYS of playing CQC non-stop with no sleep, meals, bathroom breaks, etc. How about a PvP anaconda? 700m? 340 DAYS of non-stop grinding CQC with no sleep, bathroom breaks, etc. No. You do not get money from CQC. Don't you dare try to say that you can make money from CQC.

"I believe once someone commits murder and is found guilty, there sentanced is carried out the very next day."

Are you seriously saying that you don't even believe in due process? I'm glad you have no power over anything.

"Death in the exact manner you killed another."

"That means if you tortured someone for a week before killing them you are tortured for a week then executed. If you starved someone to death; your punishment is death by starvation"

You know who I think you'd fit right in with? ISIS.

"I believe once someone commits murder and is found guilty, there sentanced is carried out the very next day. With there being only one sentence for murder. Death in the exact manner you killed another. That means if you tortured someone for a week before killing them you are tortured for a week then executed. If you starved someone to death; your punishment is death by starvation. I know that opinion is unpopular, but it would be very effective at eliminating useless incarceration. Just think of all the space that would be emptied by eliminating murderers."

Then you are a fanatic. I see now that arguing with you is truly pointless. You don't believe in justice; you believe in revenge. You're just another right-winger who puts his emotions before reason, so it should come as no surprise that this attitude extends to the game. The justice system is not an instrument of revenge just as the report system is not. Good-bye forever.

 

[Comrade Error]

Just FYI both of you, 1.5/2.0 has given an enormous boost to piracy, NPC's are quite valuable to pirate now...so yeah.

Eh?! Weren't they just ment to make getting cargo easier?