Why Not Play Another Game?

Take On Mars was better in beta, IMO, because you could choose from several pre-made scenarios and just basically live on Mars without limits. That’s all gone now, and it killed the game for me.

That, and no VR implementation planned.
I like to dabble with the scenario editor. There are lots of them available in the Steam Workshop too. "Vanilla Scenarios" adds back the outdated ones.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=813864952

VR would be cool. I haven't bothered with it yet because reading instruments in the cockpit is not very practical at present, what with the low-res displays. Although, familiarity with the layout would help I guess. As you can tell, I'm on the edge with VR at present.
 
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I can see that it is difficult for you to find another game, OP.
And you sure seem to have had a good lookaround.
If sci-fi/spaceship games are the only thing that interest you, then your options are certainly rather limited.
And nobody can force themselves to have interests elsewhere, when they honestly don't.
Bit of a conondrum that, really.
Perhaps the game you wish for simply hasn't been made yet.
And yeah, i know, that's not much help either.
 
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You don't want to play another game?

How strange! I've got a backlog of games i'm not playing because of ED, and only get to play them when i'm having a break from ED.

As much as a space game fan i am, and as much as i love ED, there are other games to play that i enjoy.

If you only play space games, then you are probably missing out on a whole load of great non-space games.
 

verminstar

Banned
I do play other games when the notion takes me, but this is the only spaceship sim game I play...still me number one choice to play but not my only choice.

I have 5 weeks playtime in mass effect andromeda...10 weeks plus in mass effect 3 (online very high level number of hours played can only be guessed)...gears of war 4...the hitman series of games, GTA5 on both xb1 and pc...I can go on here and list another several but ye get the picture yes?

I would never put all me eggs into one basket...much as I love this game, I do have alternatives fer when I need a timeout but as space based games go, elite has always been the best one yet, and Ive been playing space based games since the days of freelancer. Before that it was mostly shooters like unreal tourny, quake 3 arena, counter strike etc...

Point being that as good as elite is, at the end of the day its just another game and all games have a shelf life whether anyone likes it or not ^
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
I think ED's excellent, the dev's deserve nothing but praise.

I don't see why they should at all - simple, repetitive game mechanics are not worthy of praise imo. Shallow gameplay is not either. I get that YOU like it but going by industry standards (i.e. game mechanics of this century, not the last one), ED is stuck in the past relying on things like USS's to make gameplay.

Take On Mars was better in beta, IMO, because you could choose from several pre-made scenarios and just basically live on Mars without limits. That’s all gone now, and it killed the game for me.

That, and no VR implementation planned.

I was looking at that a while back - is it really that bad?

Try Subnautica if you haven't. It has VR too iirc
 
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As a console gamer, I have even less alternatives. Now when Subnautica and Ace Combat 7 come to the PS4 later this year, then I'll have some very good games that, granted, aren't space games, but they do scratch many of the same itches.

FWIW, I'm not looking to replace Elite Dangerous. ED will always have a place on my small console hard drive. I look for alternatives to play when I get bored with 'the grind' and / or frustrated with the bugs. And I'm not a one genre pony; sometimes I like playing games that are totally 'other' like Overwatch, Elder Scrolls Online, HZD, etc.
 
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Hello,

What I'd really love is I-War 3. Or a Reboot. Has potential to tick all the boxes really. Complex but fun space flight, good combat, good travel system with potential for multiplayer choke points (at Lagrange Points) and even a potential for a full sized galaxy like EDs.
since it is on GOG =r Steam, there is no problem anymore to play I-War2 on modern computers. it still is a great game!
But it is no Elite, you don't have the freedom of playing.


Yeah, if you want a huge beautiful galaxy and you like to shoot stuff in engaging battles, this game is the way to go.
- Eve is impressive, but it's a spreadsheet. Best PvP-MMO in the universe because it has actual wars with losses and gains, but you're not a pilot. You are a weaponized project engineer with an uranium-tipped pen and big grudges.
- X3 is brilliant, because it is one of the few games that makes the grind truly rewarding. And it is the only game where capital ships are CAPITAL ships where your broadsides feel like they can level empires. But it is old, its galaxy is unimpressive, it's UI is a mess and you never feel immersed in the more advanced ships, you simply observe them.
- Star Citizen is, well, ambitious but a far cry from where it needs to be.
And most others are generally very limited, very focused on one thing or very old. I'll shout out to Avorion for being a great game that strikes a good balance between the things it tries to do, but if you think Elite sometimes seems, well, "overly procedural"... then you ain't seen nothing yet. Still, for a small indie game it is well worth a try.
I'd say Elite is still the undisputed king of the space genre where you want to feel like the pilot. Especially its VR implementation is simply top notch.
I fully agree.
The only game which is comparable with Elite is the X-series. But you nailed the pros and contras quite good. Ok, the trading part is much better in X3 especiall when using scripts (Lucike).
The fighting is totally different and much easier than in Elite. One reason - the NPCs are dump.
AND - X wouldn't work as a multiplayer game, like Elite, despite any critism, does.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
As a console gamer, I have even less alternatives. Now when Subnautica and Ace Combat 7 come to the PS4 later this year, then I'll have some very good games that, granted, aren't space games, but they do scratch many of the same itches.

FWIW, I'm not looking to replace Elite Dangerous. ED will always have a place on my small console hard drive. I look for alternatives to play when I get bored with 'the grind' and / or frustrated with the bugs. And I'm not a one genre pony; sometimes I like playing games that are totally 'other' like Overwatch, Elder Scrolls Online, HZD, etc.

Be prepared to lose your life to Subnautica. I bought it ages ago and started playing it a week ago and already played something like 30 hours. Not only is there loads to do but the graphics are amazing and it supports VR (I don't have VR so can't comment but I'd imagine it's awesome)
 
I don't see why they should at all - simple, repetitive game mechanics are not worthy of praise imo. Shallow gameplay is not either. I get that YOU like it but going by industry standards (i.e. game mechanics of this century, not the last one), ED is stuck in the past relying on things like USS's to make gameplay.

ED is the current industry standard, there simply isn't any competition. It delivers exactly what I was expecting an update of Elite with extra's, huge open world games always emphasize the huge at the loss of detail and ED is likely to be the hugest for some time.

When I want a game with more in depth mechanics I have other options for that, but I have to accept the literally astronomical loss of scale.

I doubt it's possible for any one game to deliver on both let alone all, which is why I play different games.
 
Might have missed it in the text wall but surprised OP didn't mention the X games.

Terran Conflict is a classic and even Rebirth was just about playable after the patches.

Okay for the most part it's a made up galaxy but plenty to do and in TC if you ever reach the Xenon Hub mission... you will learn what grind is.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
ED is the current industry standard, there simply isn't any competition. It delivers exactly what I was expecting an update of Elite with extra's, huge open world games always emphasize the huge at the loss of detail and ED is likely to be the hugest for some time.

When I want a game with more in depth mechanics I have other options for that, but I have to accept the literally astronomical loss of scale.

I doubt it's possible for any one game to deliver on both let alone all, which is why I play different games.

You think ED is the current industry standard but offer no evidence to support that claim. A game that's game mechanics are at least 2 decades old, no matter how pretty, is not industry standard. A game describe as "a mile wide and an inch deep" is not industry standard (actually, maybe it is with the current realease of rubbish like Star Wars Battlefront and stuff like that LOL).

If it's not possible then what you're saying is ED will always be shallow and repetitive (but offers an amazing VR experience by all accounts)

But I disagree - of course it can be engaging and deep - what's stopping it? Evochron Legacy btw is ED's competition and made by one guy. Flies exactly the same pretty much but also has no speed limits.
 
Then don't even start.

No, that doesn’t cut it with me. I’m not the type to ever just roll over and accept what is without at least trying to better it. I get that you enjoy the game and that’s great, but I don’t understand why you have such a problem with other criticizing the game if you just accept what comes anyway.

I’m not a professional writer but I do enjoy it and I think it’s absolutely imperative for others to be hypercritical of my works especially before I’ve completed them. It’s a definite punch to the gut sometimes but in the end I’m usually better for it. I don’t see ED as some abstract peice of work that’s left to interpretation. It has a purpose, a vision, and at one point a plan. I would hope FD is professional enough to take even the heaviest criticisms and learn from them.
 
Another good question is: Why isn't there a better game than Elite in this genre?
I have 0 experience in development/coding, but I assume these games are not the easiest to develop. The bigger you try and make it, the more varied your playerbase gets, and eventually everyone starts asking for different features. And in a game that strives for realism, there's no end to feature requests.
Indeed. There are lots of major problems in trying to make a game set in space. The main one to my mind is that space is:
a) big
b) empty
and these are generally the opposite of the properties that make for good gameplay. But compressing the gameworld so it is small and full ... you then have to ask what was the point of setting it in space at all, not to mention losing the majestic scale which for some players is the *point*.

That's tough enough to manage in singleplayer where tricks like time compression, time skips, and similar can be put in place. Open-world multiplayer just adds even more complexity.

Additionally, the commodity game engines are unlikely to be well-optimised for a space setting: high polygon counts per-model, relatively low draw distances, relatively small (but full) maps with definite boundaries, relatively low travel speed, and a defined "up" direction are their general use-case ... none of which apply much in space. So you have to write your own, which adds more effort for everyone.


It's not impossible to make a 'good' game ... making a 'great' one might be. More competition would let people pick one more to their personal taste ... but would probably involve a lot of outright failures, and it doesn't look like anyone much is wanting to take on that risk.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
Indeed. There are lots of major problems in trying to make a game set in space. The main one to my mind is that space is:
a) big
b) empty

This is certainly an issue - what do you do with the 99.999999% of the game that literally has nothing in it? Well, you can't fill it with stuff because that would be silly. Maybe add a "cloud" of something in some systems or other objects (things floating outside the stations like some of the CQC maps) but it needs reasons to be going from one place to another.

You can do that by adding in better missions like "escort" - why on earth can't we join a stations defence force? That's not hard at all and yet, despite it being asked about a thousand times on these forums, FDev are still clueless and think we want a little bit more jump range added onto the already massive boost to jump range we already have - nice of them to be original, right? No, it isn't it's lazy and that's one of the issues with the game. In 4 years, look what their imagination has come up with.

Why aren't wars fought around stations. In what reality do you just fight in some random point in space? Where are the interesting missions around that? Why am I not being recognised in my home system when I've blown up 1000 pirates and been pivotal in flipping the system?

Why can't I buy an apartment on the space station? Why can't they add in a basic algorythm to add in a few things to make space stations look different?

Where are simple "escort this ship to this destiantion following this route"?

Don't just take my word for it, other people here have better suggestions than I do for making ED a far better game and they've posted them, some even did huge posts with screenshots to show how things could be.

and then of course there's always that DDF from 4 years ago!
 
You think ED is the current industry standard but offer no evidence to support that claim. A game that's game mechanics are at least 2 decades old, no matter how pretty, is not industry standard. A game describe as "a mile wide and an inch deep" is not industry standard (actually, maybe it is with the current realease of rubbish like Star Wars Battlefront and stuff like that LOL).

Until there's some competition ED is and will remain the only thing to measure the industry standard by.

If it's not possible then what you're saying is ED will always be shallow and repetitive (but offers an amazing VR experience by all accounts)

ED will always be what it was designed and made to be. If you are actually expecting any future drastic changes you are going to be disappointed, the games been out four years. Extra's via DLC are possible, atmospheric landings maybe even spacelegs (not bothered myself) but the basic foundation of the game is not going to change in any significant way.

I'm not just OK I'm actually happy with that because I bought the game as was, there is no imaginary version I was hoping for.

But I disagree - of course it can be engaging and deep - what's stopping it? Evochron Legacy btw is ED's competition and made by one guy. Flies exactly the same pretty much but also has no speed limits.

The Evochron games are good, exceptional even for a one man labour of love and I buy them all. But they are a one man labour of love, and that shows. I don't have any issues with Evochron for that because (again) I know what I'm buying. I'd say it also lacks a lot of ED's depth.
 
I realize some folks say "why not just play another game?" but in all honesty, what other space games are there? Unless all I want to do is shoot, what options do I have? Star Citizen is years away, most of the other space games are very limited in scope and mechanics, and quite frankly I've been looking for a Freelancer replacement since Freelancer, and Elite comes the closest. I mean, SO CLOSE you have no idea. I don't mind a little planning, I don't mind grunt work or grinding if it's going to something that will be rewarding and enjoyable, but right now Elite just isn't there yet. To put it another way, it's like meeting the man or woman of your dreams, and then realizing they don't like human contact. You can still fall in love with them, you can admire them for many other attributes, but at the end of the day, your interaction will be sorely limited, and instead of being physically involved, face to face and enjoying the moment together, you're watching Netflix for 3 hours while sitting at opposite ends of the couch.

That may not have made sense, but, yeah. I want to love this game. I already like it, I want to play it all of the time, until I log in and start playing, at which point I realize why I get frustrated.

"Go play another game if you get bored."

What if I don't want to play another game? What if there really is no other game? You know exactly what I mean: you step away, but then you itch to log back in hoping something else will catch your attention. Elite is addicting, because the potential is right there, no other game comes close. Let's look at a few of the modern space games out there:

As colorful as it is, No Man's Sky doesn't do that for me. They have amazing worlds, but meh flight mechanics and it doesn't feel "real," (as if that can be quantified in a game).

Eve Online would be more fun if it wasn't more about pewpewpew than anything, and then there's the lack of first person flight perspective, which takes away from it for me. Also, it's F2P, which is just begging for trouble.

I play Star Trek Online sometimes, but the ships are small, the mechanics boil down to "shoot this," and "scan that" which get very boring before long, and it too is F2P, though I think they do a nice job balancing it out.

Mass Effect has some incredible visuals, but it's about shooting stuff, and I'm more fascinated by the beautiful universe in which it is set. Seriously, the art department for that game needs high praise, but unless I want some cinematics and pewpewpew, I've got nothing to do.

Stellaris has some nice strategy/gameplay, but it's made in the same vein as so many other modern space games that eschew a first person, visceral experience. It sits along with the other modern space games that favor voxels and sprites, which is fine if you're into voxels and pixel, but none of it scratches the Elite itch one iota.

Star Conflict is another F2P set in a first person universe, and while it looks good, there's no time to appreciate it because of pewpewpew and "buy more credits."

Endless Space 2 looks incredible, and has gameplay and story out the wazoo, but it's not a first person immersive experience like Elite.

Eve: Valkyrie looks jaw droppingly fantastic, has first person perspective and everything, but it's just combat.

All of these games have their positives and negatives, but they're not Elite: Dangerous, and they don't have 1/3rd the potential Elite: Dangerous has.

So, yeah, I care a lot about what gets changed in Elite: Dangerous, and what path it's on in terms of development. I want a more invested experience, but not just time, I want to be emotionally involved, I want to be excited, surprised, gratified, and I think so many of the game mechanics get in the way of that. I feel that Elite brushes up against greatness, and then backs away. Like they know what they could do, but they're too afraid or unsure to do it. They gave us an entire galaxy to play in, but little to do. A sandbox should allow for stimulation, not boredom. You can do anything you want, as long as it involves this handful of repetitive actions.

I complain because I care a lot. If I didn't, I wouldn't have been brought on board by Braben's words when I was making my considerations for purchasing the game. He sold me on an incredible world, and some of you say that's what Kickstarters do, but that doesn't excuse anything. Don't we all get angry when we feel deceived by those we trust? Or when we realize we have a product that could have been amazing if the manufacturers wouldn't have half- it in the name of expediency? So many of the game mechanics scream "good enough for now," and "that'll shut them up for a while." Whether that is the intention, I can't say because the devs don't talk to people. Communication between developers and player base in this game has to be the worst I've ever encountered for a modern game in development. I know they're busy, but Jesus H. Christ, you make a little time for the people who believed in you and helped get your butt off the ground and back into the game, and are still working to keep you in that game.

"Hey, new paint jobs!" and "buy our new game!" doesn't count. So much more has to be done, and more effort is required. This game is the best game in town. That's not damnation, but it's not praise, either.


TL;DR - There are no other modern space games when it comes to wanting something like Elite: Dangerous, which means Elite has to be the torchbearer when it comes to this type of space sim. They're the only game in town for this kind of experience. Others fall short, or don't focus on the kind of gameplay that had drawn us to Elite in the first place. Talk to us, listen to us, be our friends, guys. The reason so many of these threads are happening is because it's awfully quiet from the other side of the table, so people keep shouting, hoping to be heard. You have the potential to be amazing, so just be amazing. Do it. I believe you can, and so many other players in this game believe you've got the skill and talent to make every other game in this genre be nothing but amateurs.

Just my two credits.

This

Ps freelancer woooo!!!!
 
I believe they should give us a list of certainties. The things which definitely will happen eventually and what definitely won't happen eventually. Alot of my frustration is the promises made and the bait dangle that occurs while waiting for each new update. If atmospheric landing isn't coming say... if it definitely is, say it definitely is. Every promise feels like a carrot dangle delaying tactic and so my personal frustration.

Tells us whats happening. Not what you want wish or will try. Whats coming and where does it end up.
 
I think if Frontier came out with a etched in stone road map that it would be a double edge sword.

For example.. if they came out and said that simple atmosphere landings and simple space leg related mini games weren’t coming at all then I would probably stop playing. Not sure how many other people would do the same. But those two things are big reasons that I have spent $300+ on ED. I’m trying to support them so that they can deliver what Braben and the concept art book “promised”.

A lot of folks may not care about that. Their gripes might just be about core gameplay and in turn they might leave the game of their roadmap stated no further develop will be done to it.
 
I think if Frontier came out with a etched in stone road map that it would be a double edge sword.

For example.. if they came out and said that simple atmosphere landings and simple space leg related mini games weren’t coming at all then I would probably stop playing. Not sure how many other people would do the same. But those two things are big reasons that I have spent $300+ on ED. I’m trying to support them so that they can deliver what Braben and the concept art book “promised”.

A lot of folks may not care about that. Their gripes might just be about core gameplay and in turn they might leave the game of their roadmap stated no further develop will be done to it.

I agree a set plan is a bad idea but for a slightly different reasons.

They miss a date : meltdown
It doesn't work in internal testing and has to be binned/drastically altered : meltdown
It's truly fantastic but need's to be a standalone game to do it justice : meltdown
They release it bang on time exactly as stated : meltdown anyway
 
I agree a set plan is a bad idea but for a slightly different reasons.

They miss a date : meltdown
It doesn't work in internal testing and has to be binned/drastically altered : meltdown
It's truly fantastic but need's to be a standalone game to do it justice : meltdown
They release it bang on time exactly as stated : meltdown anyway

Please accept this virtual rep, what you said is exactly me sentiments as well
 
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