PvP Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

But do you do it for the 'salt' or to get people to try to stop you? The latter I can understand & respect (playing the bad guy is fun), you want to be challenged. The former is just being bitter and taking your frustration out on others, you are only interested in soft targets.

Who said that every griefer interested in sotf targets only, or, at least, singular amounts of them?
I do not say that there is no real scum around in ED. People have traumas of sorts sometimes. It can be argued, but no person is inherently evil, and about each of them have some kind of justification about their actions. And thing is, behavior presented by some people here, is nothing but the same stuff with slightly different outcome.

 

[Riverside]

Who said that every griefer interested in sotf targets only, or, at least, singular amounts of them?
I do not say that there is no scum around in ED. People have traumas of sorts sometimes. And thing is, behavior presented by some people here, is nothing but the same stuff with slightly different outcome.

I was asking ALGOMATIC. I am not generalising, different people play different ways and for different reasons. I'm interested in ALGOMATIC's response, should s/he care to give one.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

But do you do it for the 'salt' or to get people to try to stop you? The latter I can understand & respect (playing the bad guy is fun), you want to be challenged. The former is just being bitter and taking your frustration out on others, you are only interested in soft targets.

Both. 200mil bounty in Eravate alone. Come and claim it.

 

[Riverside]

Both. 200mil bounty in Eravate alone. Come and claim it.

Thanks, this is kind of what I was expecting. It implies that while you would like to be challenged, deliberately frustrating other players is a self-motivating activity.

It's understandable that you would want more purpose and direction, but inherently the attempts to embarrass the less committed players will continue.

Of course we're looking at a sample of one here, but from my experience, ALGOMATIC is straight talking and his/her responses are consistent and honest. Many may not like what they read, and may think the style of play is disgraceful, but it is what it is, and is in line with my recent findings from several threads, including this one, my meaningful PvP proposal etc.

The attacks on so-called 'lesser players' is unlikely to get much worse than now, because those few that remain are already doing it as much as they can be bothered to do, and if even herculean effort is expended on improving the PvP experience, that player gap will remain and the attacks will continue. They may be reduced a little, but really, no big change in behaviour from now.

I think that adversarial contact between players is a popular and largely healthy activity, which would benefit from a few tweaks to ships and loadouts here and there, but there is an element, a sub-set of that community that considers themselves to be morally a step above the majority, and whatever changes are made to the game that gap will remain.

Comments & criticism welcome, I look forward to reading your feedback and any rebuttals.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Both. 200mil bounty in Eravate alone. Come and claim it.

Algo, you're basically a Dark Souls boss at this stage. When a wing and I came upon you by chance in Eravate we had quite the blast.

Oh, and to anyone thinking about going after him or anyone else: be proper and rock that KWS.

 

[jasonbarron]

Both. 200mil bounty in Eravate alone. Come and claim it.

Too bad only a small percentage of that is actually claimable.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

, I just mine salt, try and stop me.

No. Mine away. Just don't start making demands of FD when you end up on block lists or people switch to PG/solo.

I guess you think PvP is in a good place at the moment yeah? All this toxicity about being slaughtered in CGs, in eravate, in engineer systems is appealing to you? Been going this way since beta, here is for 4 more years of salt amirite?

Toxicity about being slaughtered even goes on in PvP focused games, eg: EvE. Its not something unique to ED. Any game where you have PvP you get toxicity.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Algo, you're basically a Dark Souls boss at this stage. When a wing and I came upon you by chance in Eravate we had quite the blast.

Oh, and to anyone thinking about going after him or anyone else: be proper and rock that KWS.

I heard rumors about some Code conda with a billion in bounties.

Too bad only a small percentage of that is actually claimable.

Its actually not worth to bounty hunt players in this game.

 

[lenna]

No. Mine away. Just don't start making demands of FD when you end up on block lists or people switch to PG/solo.

Exactly - like meaningful PvP for example, we already have meaningful PvP but it is not of the form that some seem to want. Personally, I think those that are after meaningful PvP or a better PvP challenge need to look at how CQC can be changed to provide what they want without affecting the main environment for the rest of us. Alternatively, ask for a new game to be developed that is based from the outset around their chosen playbook.

Toxicity about being slaughtered even goes on in PvP focused games, eg: EvE. Its not something unique to ED. Any game where you have PvP you get toxicity.

Not entirely true - it is only really an issue in games that mix PvE and PvP elements in the same environment. In pure-PvP environments (e.g. Quake, Doom), there are some poor behaviour patterns (e.g. spawn camping) but they tend to be mitigated in the majority of cases.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Not entirely true - it is only really an issue in games that mix PvE and PvP elements in the same environment. In pure-PvP environments (e.g. Quake, Doom), there are some poor behaviour patterns (e.g. spawn camping) but they tend to be mitigated in the majority of cases.

It does varry, and you can get toxicty in even pure PvE games, but its a lot rarer.

Even within ED you see a difference between different sub forums and player styles.

Between the PvPers you see toxicity between PvP player groups. If you hang out on some PvP discords or reddit, you regularly see one group talking negatively about another. Epeens must be waved! Our groups is better than another group. The other group are scum, etc. Its almost like politics or sports.

Then compare with the exploration subforum, where 99% of the time there is no salt, no arguments, no toxicity. People just doing their stuff or sometimes with friends, getting along, sharing what they have discovered.

The difference is quite striking.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...The difference is quite striking.

The nature of conflict.

 

[Princess Nia]

If you hang out on some PvP discords or reddit, you regularly see one group talking negatively about another.

After spending my time in pvp groups for the 2 years i was with this game, i saw this minimally, it wasn't a regular thing. If there was any badmouthing it was over someone combatlogging or generally stirring the pot. Even at the peak of SDC and AA rivalry i never saw anyone badmouth AA members being bad pilots. It only comes to this when people flaunt trying to claim they are good when they arent.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Even at the peak of SDC and AA rivalry i never saw anyone badmouth AA members being bad pilots.

Amazing, because i've seen that plenty.

And of course, from what i've seen, everyone mocks the 12.5th.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

I would love open and PVP if the following actually MEANT something:

- High Security System
- Medium Security System
- Low Security System
- Anarchy

And also if the following was fleshed out withing the above:

- Crime and punishment and consequences for unlawful actions

Then im ok. Because if i decide to take the fastest route with a fully laden T9 and cross 4 Anarchy or Low Sec system then i deserve to get my handed to me but any "PVP'er" who decide to blow me up merely because im a hollow square in a high sec system should have to think long and hard on the fact that he might very well get his handed to him by overwhelming police presence the moment he interdicts me.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

It does varry, and you can get toxicty in even pure PvE games, but its a lot rarer.

In every game, where salt mining opportunity is present, there would be a miner. Percentage is the same.

And tell me an instance of any other game where PvP is neglected by developers as much as in ED, while full volume of mechanics is present.

 

[frostypaw]

while full volume of mechanics is present.

You seem to disagree with the general consensus that a lot of extra PvP mechanics are needed to give it meaning.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

You seem to disagree with the general consensus that a lot of extra PvP mechanics are needed to give it meaning.

Do we play different games? You know what that does mean, I do not know what do you want to achieve by acting like a .

Base mechanics needed are here, and in full volume. You can attack any other ship, ships take damage, fact that you attack other player is registered on transaction server etc. There are even some PvP-specific "enchantments" present. But they are not tied to the game firmly enough.

First thing comes to mind is to incentify Open play for PP at least. I do not mean to disable doing anything in Solo, since such abomination is present already, and removal of it will cause too much outrage. But the fact that risk, skill and investments tied to playing in open, as well as in any other area of this game give you nothing in reward is the main flaw of ED in my opinion.

As things are, game disincenifies Open as much as it can.

Sure, some investments do increase your effectiveness. But you need minimum of investments to security vs PvE, further increases in defences and performance are just meaningless. And you need way more of it to play in Open. Which is simply meaningless to do since you have Solo. That goes against logic.

I do not know why things are that unnatural way. And this have to stop. This is ridiculoisly easy to change, just add some binary variable on every transaction and every cargo, which becomes false when you move away from open at least once while they are in effect. If it stays true, you get extra reward and effectiveness of your actions.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Do we play different games? You know what that does mean, I do not know what do you want to achieve by acting like a .

Base mechanics needed are here, and in full volume. You can attack any other ship, ships take damage, fact that you attack other player is registered on transaction server etc. There are even some PvP-specific "enchantments" present. But they are not tied to the game firmly enough.

First thing comes to mind is to incentify Open play for PP at least. I do not mean to disable doing anything in Solo, since such abomination is present already, and removal of it will cause too much outrage. But the fact that risk, skill and investments tied to playing in open, as well as in any other area of this game give you nothing in reward is the main flaw of ED in my opinion.

As things are, game disincenifies Open as much as it can.

Sure, some investments do increase your effectiveness. But you need minimum of investments to security vs PvE, further increases in defences and performance are just meaningless. And you need way more of it to play in Open. Which is simply meaningless to do since you have Solo. That goes against logic.

I do not know why things are that unnatural way. And this have to stop. This is not difficult to change, just add some binary variable on every transaction and every cargo, which becomes false when you move to open at least once while they are in effect. If it stays true

These people want to continue solo undermining others thats why they resist those changes. I guess they mine salt this way, I dont see other reason why they refuse to face their enemies directly.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

edit: crap, force of habit reply. So sorry for posting in this section and leaving my muddy PvE footprints all over. Post deleted

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

On the side note, solution for C-logging to some extent is easy as well, while I'm at it.

Fact that you were interdicted or interdict anyone is obviously registered and does generate a transaction.

So, if you are interdicting a player or you get intedicted while being wanted for PvP crimes, you generate a hidden bounty worth of your rebuy.
This transaction should hold while you are attacking or being attacked, with some lingering duration, about 25 seconds.
If you lose connection to transaction server during the time while this transaction is in effect, this bounty will become real one.

This will only advanced methods of Clogging on the table, and extending this to connection with other players, rather than to transaction server only, might result in cases of offencive hacking.