PvP Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

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To be fair, it depends what you mean by PvP, if you mean exclusively PvP and organised fights, then you're probably right, it's a small number, probably below 10% of the playerbase.

But I think the vast majority of players (80-90%?) take part in PvP to some extent, even if it's just the occasional scuffle with player pirates, it's still PvP.
 
Fight or flight.

Pvp will evoke one of two responses, sweaty palmed fast heart rate excitement or abject terror followed by looming loss.

They are somewhat interchangeable but those who don't respond to a situation with fight and enjoy the thrill of it (even if they lose) are left with the other set of emotions which many find it hard to deal with, particularly as the pve side of the game makes even the most inept CMDR feel like a god. The sudden change can be jarring and many can't digest that or take something from it to get enjoyment.

Those that can't bring themselves to fight want to take flight but in this game they can't because it is very possible to wing gank and powder a ship or disable drives and for people without the experience to escape or the grit to laugh it off (it is just a game after all) it removes even the flight option for them.

All they are then left with is a sense of powerlessness and no one enjoys that.
 
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I’ve never seen Elite as an opportunity to sit in my backyard and shoot other players.

Most players purchased ED to wonder at our galaxy in their own time in their own way. For them PvP is just a waste of time and effort.

...and this sums it all.
 
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Possibly because the majority of players are old(er), played the original Elite and want to see the game as they imagined it all those years ago, and just cannot be bothered doing the shooty shooty ramming rebuy stuff. There is an entire galaxy to explore and as an older player I enjoy taking my time to explore and shoot NPCs as I see fit.

I don't really see the point in all these solo vs open vs private threads. Play the game as you want, there are different modes there for a reason.

Elite isn't just PVP.
 
Being a sole-trader, an utterly insignificant mote lost in infinity. All alone in my tin-can, navigating through the deep unforgiving blackness of space, and somehow, despite all, surviving and even prospering. This is Elite for me.

I'm not the chosen one, I don't form part of any band of super anythings, I don't have some special destiny to find, nor some particular someone to rescue, nor evilness to destroy.

I am a pilot in a ship, you'll find me somewhere that no-one's much heard of, let alone visited. I try to stay on the right side of the law, unless the money's right, and every repair and refit bill makes me wince. But if you mess with me, try to stop me from doing what I've set out to do, or scratch my paintwork, you'll either find yourself in a fight, or chasing a vapour trail. I'm not some honourable warrior, I'll fight the fights I think I can win, and run from those I think I can't, and from those I'm losing.

It's very unlikely I'll ever make any Elite rank, but I don't care. I doubt I'll ever be some faction's vice admiral, I don't care. I care about my ship, the next one I want to buy, and the sheer fun of doing what I want when I like.

See you in the black Cmdrs o7
 
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Deleted member 38366

D
My reasons why it's not high on my "ToDo" list :

- played way too many PvP Games in the past, good Coop Games were extremely rare in comparison (hence my distinct appreciation for good Coop)
- PvP isn't "properly in place" in ELITE for the most part and riddled with severe flaws
-> broken mechanics, massive issues with Balancing and Exploits/Cheats/Hacks, total lack of C&P System, plus Instancing limitations to top it all off

No idea how Frontier plans to one day properly implement PvP so it fits nicely into the Game... but I reckon they have a very long road ahead of them once they try.

I have nothing against PvP per default nor against any Players that enjoy it.
Just as a mechanic in the Game, with all its flaws, shortcomings and omissions, it just happened to open the door to alot of abuse.
Over the last 2 years, that cancerous and toxic combination has naturally earned it (and ELITE as a Game) a "less-than-stellar" Reputation. That damage alone is already done and would be very hard to undo at this point.

To me, outside of a Conflict Zone or encountering the oddball rare Pirate, PvP simply doesn't make any logcial sense in ELITE.
But then, I try not to play ELITE in a "Gamey" way, I'm looking for the Simulatory part.
I guess that's the biggest difference.

If I just saw it as "just another Shooter/Game", sure, I'd probably hop right into the frenzy just for fun. It's just not how or why I play ELITE.
 
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Fight or flight.

Pvp will evoke one of two responses, sweaty palmed fast heart rate excitement or abject terror followed by looming loss.

They are somewhat interchangeable but those who don't respond to a situation with fight and enjoy the thrill of it (even if they lose) are left with the other set of emotions which many find it hard to deal with, particularly as the pve side of the game makes even the most inept CMDR feel like a god. The sudden change can be jarring and many can't digest that or take something from it to get enjoyment.

Those that can't bring themselves to fight want to take flight but in this game they can't because it is very possible to wing gank and powder a ship or disable drives and for people without the experience to escape or the grit to laugh it off (it is just a game after all) it removes even the flight option for them.

All they are then left with is a sense of powerlessness and no one enjoys that.

Of course it is also very likely that those people who like to bully others in a game are acting out fantasies of power they are quite incapable of in real life.

Lots of possibilities.

:)
 
I have a "big picture" theory...

PvP in Elite is unpopular for a number of reasons...

1) Space is big. Really big... and it's also very, very empty.

A lot of the time, if you're fighting one spaceship with your spaceship, it's going to be out in space, away from asteroid belts in empty space. There is no cover, nothing to hide behind. This means that the battle is always going to be jousting or orbiting within that 3D volume and with 6 degrees of freedom of movement.

Every time, it's a battle of attrition - who will wear the other down first? Whose shields will fail first? Whose modules will wear down quicker? Whose hull will break earlier?

Ultimately, if you've been through one Space Fight, you've been through them all - and frankly, this is boring. If you've watched one recorded video of a fight in Elite, you've seen them all. They're really, really boring to watch.

The only exception to this is fighting in an asteroid belt, where you have places to duck behind, and it is a bit more interesting to take part in and even watch on video. But those fights happen less than the majority, which are in open space.

2) Lack of any meaningful Crime & Consequence system, and/or Karma system...

Currently, and since release in December 2014, the consequences for being blown up far outweigh the consequences for the player who perpetrated the blowing up of another player's ship. The game does not care about why a ship was blown up. The punishment is almost always entirely dealt on the player whose ship was blown up - maybe it's an explorer who's been out of the bubble for months and has just lost multiple tens of millions of credits worth of data, plus a ship rebuy? Maybe it's a trader who's just lost all their cargo plus a rebuy?

Meanwhile, the player who blew up their ships gets a tiny fine in comparison - and that's if the blowing up was done in non-Anarchy space.

Basically, this game actively rewards those players who choose to indiscriminately kill every other player. It's not financial rewards, though, it's the rush of dopamine the miscreant players receive. Which this game gives out in spades.

3) Lack of good reasons for fighting.

At the moment, the game gives you some pretty weak reasons or motivation for fighting...

A) To prove your mettle/skill?

This seems like a good reason - but at the end of the day, point (1) above reigns supreme. It's more like a battle of attrition than of skill - maybe the skill is in how you've outfitted your ship? In that case you're going to be grinding for the most damaging weaponry and perhaps the most shields or armour on your ship? Ultimately though, you're both jousting/orbiting each other in empty space.

B) You're fighting your Powerplay enemy?

Not that much of the player base cares for Powerplay, a lot seem to partake in it only as a means to obtain whatever toy the Power rewards one with, after 4 weeks of participating in it.

C) Piracy?

Due to point (2) above, piracy was still-born. No Crime & Consequence system means no pirate can be deterred from blowing up another ship. So traders, explorers, miners etc. simply cannot trust that the player who interdicts them, is genuinely playing the pirate role. Piracy is dead.

D) Bounty-Hunting?

Same fate as Piracy due to point (2) above. You can't be a bounty-hunter and live off the proceeds purely by going after other miscreant players.

E) Ganking

Being ganked is tedious, and boring. It is never something to be feared as such. To the player being blown up for apparently no good reason other than 'just because', is just dull. You've been ripped out of supercruise by one or more gankers, and they've quickly destroyed your ship - it is not exciting game play, it's just tedious, especially if you've had this happen a few times.

The game rewards the gankers though, as outlined above.



In summary - space fights are boring as hell, and there's no particularly good reason to be involved in them.

Here endeth my 'big picture' theory.
 
This isn't even Rob anymore. He's just set up a bot to macro this in to any thread with PvP or PvE in the thread title.

edit.. deleted sorry bad morning i seem to be having a pop at everyone today and its not cricket. need more coffee

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i know it is not elite and is not what many are after for pvp in elite

but as an aside, i am surprised at the lack of interest in CQC

i think is decent enough but no one plays it.
 
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I’ve been trying to understand why the vast majority of people are not interested in PvP in Elite Dangerous.
I’d like your thoughts on it, here are my thoughts.

For me, I like the adventure of discovering ‘what is out there’ now I know content is slim at the moment but the fact remains. I will NEVER get in a spaceship and explore the universe/galaxy in my lifetime as much as would love to. ED gives me the opportunity to do that, find weird systems and sometime amazing glitches that add to the experience.
I’ve never seen Elite as an opportunity to sit in my backyard and shoot other players, the galaxy is too big to waste time with that in my opinion.
There are thousands of games out there where the purpose is to shoot each other and do it very well. ED gives me a Galaxy to explore, why on earth would I want to do peew pew when there is a Galaxy to discover? (I’ll repeat at this point that I am aware content is thin on the ground for exploring) But at least I can find cool places to re-visit when content is added.

TLDR?
Summary – Most players purchased ED to wonder at our galaxy in their own time in their own way. For them PvP is just a waste of time and effort.

Thoughts?

Nutter
O7

Why is it not popular?

Doing What?
Powerplay, hot on the heals of Wings, I thought was going to offer some meaningful PvP. So CMDRs could sign up to a power and undertake interesting, meaningful combat for some measured outcome.

Two years on, I'm still waiting.

The game offers basically no involved combat scenarios, let alone for PvP (or PvE). Instead, it seems PvP is all too often simply mindless interdiction of CMDRs culminating in very one sided destructions...

Until the game offers some meaningful and interesting PvP, along with meaningful penalties for psychotic behaviour, PvP will stay in the funk it's currently in IMHO.

The Engineers
With the introduction of The Engineers, you now need to dedicated a lot of time and effort (grind) to keep "competitive". I'd suggest many individuals can't be bothered with this inane arms race.
 
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Of course it is also very likely that those people who like to bully others in a game are acting out fantasies of power they are quite incapable of in real life.

Lots of possibilities.

:)

Not passing comment on anyone's motivation for pvp, I will say bullying is not cool, but it's so rare in games I can't think of any example of bullying I have ever heard of in ED. Can you think of an example of players houding a specific individual for out of game reasons?

What I was doing was passing comment on the OP, why people don't like pvp. Liking something refers to an emotional state, so the answer has to be based in emotion too. :)
 
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I’ve been trying to understand why the vast majority of people are not interested in PvP in Elite Dangerous.
I’d like your thoughts on it, here are my thoughts.

For me, I like the adventure of discovering ‘what is out there’ now I know content is slim at the moment but the fact remains. I will NEVER get in a spaceship and explore the universe/galaxy in my lifetime as much as would love to. ED gives me the opportunity to do that, find weird systems and sometime amazing glitches that add to the experience.
I’ve never seen Elite as an opportunity to sit in my backyard and shoot other players, the galaxy is too big to waste time with that in my opinion.
There are thousands of games out there where the purpose is to shoot each other and do it very well. ED gives me a Galaxy to explore, why on earth would I want to do peew pew when there is a Galaxy to discover? (I’ll repeat at this point that I am aware content is thin on the ground for exploring) But at least I can find cool places to re-visit when content is added.

TLDR?
Summary – Most players purchased ED to wonder at our galaxy in their own time in their own way. For them PvP is just a waste of time and effort.

Thoughts?

Nutter
O7

I really think it is a misconception fostered by two extreme's.
I don't believe PvP is unpopular, however the cases you do hear about are events so lopsided that there really isn't any "PvP" in it, more highly powered player vs low powered player, which is so lopsided it is silly, I've seen plenty of actual PvP in game where people are fairly close in power and as such no one walks away from it feeling the need to create a community thread on it. Unfortunately, not only in Elite but other games as well, you see this more and more often of late or so it would seem. Which is just a shame. At least in my eyes since I enjoy actual PvP where you are fighting against someone, testing and challenging yourself.
 
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