I applaud your assistance to your fellow wing members and think thats in great spirit. However the ability to manipulate this to accelerate progress (read credits) in a lowly ship hauling nothing in real terms for massive (in context to ship capacity) rewards troubles me. Hauling 1 tonne of cargo should never ever be able to give you millions of credits. This is possible with helpful friends currently. They fill T9's do the donkey work, you tag along in a Sidey with 1 tonne in the hold and bingo you just got an 8 mil payout for nothing. Don't imagine FD wanted this happening, but I may be wrong.
Why would I take a wing mission for 2 mil @ 4000 tons instead of a non-wing mission for 4 mil @ 180t
- Thread starter Sentience
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I applaud your assistance to your fellow wing members and think thats in great spirit. However the ability to manipulate this to accelerate progress (read credits) in a lowly ship hauling nothing in real terms for massive (in context to ship capacity) rewards troubles me. Hauling 1 tonne of cargo should never ever be able to give you millions of credits. This is possible with helpful friends currently. They fill T9's do the donkey work, you tag along in a Sidey with 1 tonne in the hold and bingo you just got an 8 mil payout for nothing. Don't imagine FD wanted this happening, but I may be wrong.
May I ask this....
As a wing member of a wing delivery mission do you actually have to contribute to shifting the stuff or can you just fly as fighter escort and be rewarded ?
As a wing member of a wing delivery mission do you actually have to contribute to shifting the stuff or can you just fly as fighter escort and be rewarded ?
As far as I know you have to carry at least a tonne of the cargo to be included in the equal share payout.
As already explained, they did want this happening (according to comments on a live stream) however they will evaluate it as time goes along. I don't see an issue with the current implementation, I agree that someone can get a nice payout for doing little work, however everyone else in the wing has to compensate, not sure how many would agree to that unless it is someone they wanted to help.
There will always be exploitable loopholes, for example, a friend of mine started a few weeks back, had no cash. He flew with me out to the Pleiades, I gave him around 10 mill of meta alloys. It was good hanging out with him, but I'd rather we had done haulage missions together and earn money, even if I was doing the bulk of the work. We did a bit of bounty hunting together.
Even back in version 1.0, the amount of guys I'd drop gold or Palladium for, they would make millions flying from the edge of the NFZ back to the station. The devs are aware all of this happens, seems they are trying to encourage actually taking part in missions.
It is difficult one to get right, but we have to remember this is a game trying to encourage co,op play.
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FD need to let players decide how to play instead of creating all these separate functions.
Wing Missions should be renamed Bulk Missions.
FD should do what was needed in the first and integrate all missions with Wings.
This 4x reward nonsense also needs to stop.
The reward for a mission should be based on its worth, not on how many people do it.
If me and my mate want to fly together then let us share the rewards of whatever we are doing instead of trying to force us down a bulk grind route.
Wing Missions should be renamed Bulk Missions.
FD should do what was needed in the first and integrate all missions with Wings.
This 4x reward nonsense also needs to stop.
The reward for a mission should be based on its worth, not on how many people do it.
If me and my mate want to fly together then let us share the rewards of whatever we are doing instead of trying to force us down a bulk grind route.
Don't see any compensating really, they get the same payout whatever they haul.
wing missions should pay in excess of solo due to the volume hauled I have no issue at all with that, but it should be pro-rata, you do more hauling you get a bigger share. If the wing missions effectively paid a premium on top of solo this would still encourage winging up for them, but would also reward a solo who did his grind 4 times the length of a wing. Otherwise this feature is simply penalising solo traders or those, like me, who have no friends playing the game to wing with.
This really isn't any different than say a WOW type MMO in that everyone in a group can take a mission (quest) and all get paid the same when it is done regardless of weight pulled. The point is to have fun with friends not simulate real life. If we simulate real life, we would most likely be dirt farmers dying of some disease instead of flying about in high tech space vehicles.
This looks like a point of contention that neither side is going to convince the other of changing their mind on.
Cynical me says that frontier will nerf it, however.
This looks like a point of contention that neither side is going to convince the other of changing their mind on.
Cynical me says that frontier will nerf it, however.
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Going around in circles mate, plus you have said you don't even fly using wings. Of course the rest of the wing has to compensate if a member is hauling a smaller amount than everyone else.
Exactly, If this was reality, ships would be hauling on autopilot and less than 1% of us would be owning a megacorp raking in all the profit. People need to understand decisions are sometimes made because this a frikin computer game.
Nah, if paying millions for a tonne of cargo delivered was the intention of wings then I concede, however I do not imagine that was ever in the mind of the Devs.
Simple fix, have your fun in a wing, do the mission, enjoy doing it as a wing with your mates, get paid per tonne delivered.
Simple, effective and equitable.
Realism is a weird argument in regards to payment, you want realistic payments then you have to lower them (solo misson or wing mission) by a lot. "Hey there, how about you fly from A to B for me for about 10 minutes? I pay you Millions!" <- whats realistic about that, lol
One last time, it was clearly explained in the live stream. Also explained that it will be evaluated over time.
I'd rather have a realistic system where more work is more money instead of more players (and thus less work) is more money.
I understand the reason behind it, but I wouldn't even want it if I were in a group.
Trying to create a realistic and believable world, and then introduce things like this.. Just no.
It simply does not compute.
I understand the reason behind it, but I wouldn't even want it if I were in a group.
Trying to create a realistic and believable world, and then introduce things like this.. Just no.
It simply does not compute.
As a Solo player, Wing Missions (attempting to complete them solo, for example bulk transport missions) are currently pointless given how little they pay compared to non-wing missions. The idea behind them is great, but Frontier seem to have this bizarre notion that actually making money to expand your scope of play is something that needs to be beaten down at every opportunity. It's frustrating.
Just wanna leave this here. IMO, they completely butchered the wing missions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=3655&v=4ocPr8DlBQs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=3655&v=4ocPr8DlBQs
It may have been mentioned in Live Stream but I still do not consider that the possibility of a one tonne delivery paying 8 mil was ever considered.
As for evaluation over time, I think times up on this one, but that's just me.
As others have said, the wing missions need to pay a realistic amount for total work required. That should then be split if completed by multiple commanders.
If FDev want to encourage team play, perhaps have a slightly wonky maths where commanders get a bit more than their technical share. Call it an "overheads" reimbursement etc.
If FDev want to encourage team play, perhaps have a slightly wonky maths where commanders get a bit more than their technical share. Call it an "overheads" reimbursement etc.
Yes, this is the whole point of wing missions as far as I can see. If you don't even do the wing missions as a wing, then there's no point in even commenting, really - they aren't aimed at you.
I agree. It's quite messy having everything on the same board, now. And if they were separated, the menu option could be blocked off for those in Solo play (I wonder how many complaints this would prevent?
).They always will be for solo players. The clue is in the name.
How can it not be considered? it was designed like that, these are not community goals. Your exact questions came up in the live stream, I'd suggest watching the live stream instead of guessing, for the forth time now, they said they are aware of how it works, and they will evaluate it. Personally I see nothing game breaking, but if people want to whinge, then whinge away.
@Crank Larson - Yup, a separate board for wing missions would be perfect, and a slight increase to low value commodity runs.
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Not a chance that they accept the possibility of earning 8 mil per tonne in any possible scenario
You are going around in circles, for a number of pages now. We get it, you have stated what you would like to see, lets let FDev decide how to proceed, shall we?
Additionally, is it affecting YOU that someone with a small ship can get an equal share of some wing mission, or is this one of those rants where someone else might be making more than you with less effort and you just can't stand it?
This whole thing sounds very much like the other thread where the OP and like 4 other CMDRs were screaming for 60+ pages how Mode switching and Smeaton were destroying the entire game. The only thing that got destroyed was players being able to enjoy the game without the worry about the credit grind when FDev killed the distance to station algorithm and then left it at 5% of what it was when 2.4 dropped.
I have become a firm believer that most of you screamers live in abject fear of someone else having fun. I have worked in this industry for more than 3 decades, and I can honestly say that I have never seen so many overly vocal busybodies as I have over the last 3 or 4 years. It's really disheartening.
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