Why you have to zero throttle for the FSS

[marx]

This aspect of the FSS turret is pretty much universally disliked, but here's a little experiment to show that it was a needed decision, that you have to be still (or moving very slow) for it to be usable.

First, find a system where you have some targets you need to zoom in on. Already-discovered systems should do nicely here, as you can check the system map to see the body configurations. (With a tinge of nostalgia.)
Once you've found some, target it and start flying away somewhere. Not directly at your targets, but do note their locations. Build up some good speed, so that if you zero your throttle, it'll still take some time for your ship to come to a (relative) halt.

When you've done this, zero your throttle, and quickly try to resolve your targets via the FSS. (Note that if you do this near a body that slows your deceleration down, you'll have more time.) Depending on your speed and distance, you can make it so you won't be able to: you should notice the blobs are moving, and they might even be moving faster than you can move your turret view.

So, there you go. If Frontier let us use the FSS whenever, you might be able to move in a way that you couldn't use your FSS. (I assume this would especially be true if you were accelerating.) So they decided to limit it instead. Perhaps it could be done via increasing the max turret speed, but seeing the quality of the implementation in general, they probably didn't have the time to fine-tune for this.

 

[YinYin]

I don't think it's possible to fine tune this given the varying scales involved.

After all that would be trying to mesh 2D view and mechanics with super luminal 3D displacement. There is no turret speed to manually account for that. The only solution would be auto focusing on a general area, but which layer do you pick when things start to parallax past each other?

 

[Rooster Podunk]

I agree with YinYin. I was scanning some tight moons around a GG last night and their orbit speed (while trying to get to where I could zoom in) had them passing beyond the field of the scanner pretty quickly. I would like to see more of a 'lock' employed also but I also get why they can't at the moment.

 

[disorganise]

Just let there be throttle control.

If you need to slow down to resolve, do so.
It's the throttle zero before you can enter the FSS interface that feels clunky [to me]. Let it (the fss) open and let us figure out you need to slow right down.
Likewise, I want to mash the throttle before I exit the fss interface. Those extra couple of seconds could mean the difference between being able to hit hyperspace right away or not.

I think it would just flow better, even if we end up having to be close to zero anyway. It feels stilted at the moment.

 

[Darkfyre99]

This aspect of the FSS turret is pretty much universally disliked, but here's a little experiment to show that it was a needed decision, that you have to be still (or moving very slow) for it to be usable.

First, find a system where you have some targets you need to zoom in on. Already-discovered systems should do nicely here, as you can check the system map to see the body configurations. (With a tinge of nostalgia.)
Once you've found some, target it and start flying away somewhere. Not directly at your targets, but do note their locations. Build up some good speed, so that if you zero your throttle, it'll still take some time for your ship to come to a (relative) halt.

When you've done this, zero your throttle, and quickly try to resolve your targets via the FSS. (Note that if you do this near a body that slows your deceleration down, you'll have more time.) Depending on your speed and distance, you can make it so you won't be able to: you should notice the blobs are moving, and they might even be moving faster than you can move your turret view.

So, there you go. If Frontier let us use the FSS whenever, you might be able to move in a way that you couldn't use your FSS. (I assume this would especially be true if you were accelerating.) So they decided to limit it instead. Perhaps it could be done via increasing the max turret speed, but seeing the quality of the implementation in general, they probably didn't have the time to fine-tune for this.

I’ve done similar experiments, by using the mass lock effects of gas giants to extend the braking period, and while it is more difficult to resolve planets at speed, it’s not impossible. In fact, during my last two sessions, I’ve been encouraged enough by my experiments to use braking periods at planets I want to probe to resolve parts of the system I haven’t resolved yet. I’ve had mixed results, but I’m confident I can refine this technique.

 

[marx]

@ YinYin: introducing jerk to the turret view might solve that. By which I mean the time derivative of acceleration, not jitter. (Or at least remove or increase the speed limit.) Of course, it still wouldn't "snap" to the target, but it could be feasible. Otherwise, as you noted, auto-aim would be the only solution, but that could be finicky, and even more importantly, feel cheap to the user.

Oh, as for layers: although the auto-zoom makes it feel like there are layers, in reality there aren't. Zoom was (and still can be, if memory serves) continuous, it's just that after play-testing it some, Frontier decided to include auto-zooming as well, as it made things feel better. You would constantly have to zoom in and out, after all.


Now that I've read it though, I think disorganise's suggestion is better: let there be throttle control. The FSS turret view is too far divorced from flying your ship anyway.

 

[BurntJello]

In case nobody noticed during the beta, initially you had to zero (or low) throttle to use the DSS too. FDev removed that restriction for DSS, but left it for FSS. Why? I don't think we'll ever know.

 

[Winterwalker]

In case nobody noticed during the beta, initially you had to zero (or low) throttle to use the DSS too. FDev removed that restriction for DSS, but left it for FSS. Why? I don't think we'll ever know.

It's quite good fun shooting probes as your ship slides by a moving target.

As for FSS ... lore? FSD drawing throttle, from Fusion, creates too much Neutron Radiation and interferes with FSS scanner? Probably

 

[YinYin]

Oh, as for layers: although the auto-zoom makes it feel like there are layers, in reality there aren't. Zoom was (and still can be, if memory serves) continuous, it's just that after play-testing it some, Frontier decided to include auto-zooming as well, as it made things feel better. You would constantly have to zoom in and out, after all.

I don't mean the zoom layers (although they too are an automation that will struggle), but actual physical parallax layers. When things with vastly different distances to you line up.

In case nobody noticed during the beta, initially you had to zero (or low) throttle to use the DSS too. FDev removed that restriction for DSS, but left it for FSS. Why? I don't think we'll ever know.

The DSS doesn't have any of the discussed problems here, because it only works within the influence sphere of a body. The scale and amount of targets are limited.

 

[Darkfyre99]

The DSS doesn't have any of the discussed problems here, because it only works within the influence sphere of a body. The scale and amount of targets are limited.

*snaps fingers*

Oh, so that explains something weird that happened last night as I once again tried my "use the FSS while braking at my destination" technique. The approach to my destination allowed me to pass by two other moons to help slow down as I approached the innermost moon. The view in my FSS seemed to keep snapping forward for some reason. It must've been due to SOI changes as my ship went from the SOI of the Gas Giant -> Moon 5 -> Gas Giant -> Moon 2 -> Gas Giant -> Moon 1 -> Gas Giant.

I think it was particularly noticeable this time, compared to other attempts, because the remaining gas giant in the system was behind me relative to my direction of travel. My previous attempts have involved resolving other moons around the gas giant my destination orbited.

I'll have to see if there's an opportunity to catch this on video, so I can submit a bug report.

 

[YinYin]

Looks like there is a problem after all. How do you expect them to resolve it though? (I'm sure they are aware) Swapping gravity wells messing with your probe launcher doesn't exactly sound like a bug.

 

[foxoplasma]

This is a reasonable answer, however, why can't the FSS just "lock on" to planetary bodies that you aim at?

If you go way too fast to be able to select anything, though, well, that's user error.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Looks like there is a problem after all. How do you expect them to resolve it though? (I'm sure they are aware) Swapping gravity wells messing with your probe launcher doesn't exactly sound like a bug.

I wasn’t using the probe launcher, though. I was using the FSS to resolve a distant body during what is normally a relatively unproductive period of time, in an effort to make it productive.

It could very well be the case that the reason why they have us throttle down is due to an edge case issue that isn’t easily be resolved. OTOH, when they designed the interface, they could just have easily thought “nobody would be crazy enough to do attempt something like that!” and it could be an easy fix. Since I saw no bug report on either the beta or live bug report forums about this, I’m going to document it and submit it. After all, it’s better to send information that they might already have, as opposed to assume they have it, and not send it

 

[space voyager]

Just let there be throttle control.

Nice idea. I'd need to remap the controls as I use the throttle control keys for FSS scan, too (as probably most do). I'd actually have a pretty hard time finding four free WASD formation keys... Elite is very key intensive game.

 

[disorganise]

Nice idea. I'd need to remap the controls as I use the throttle control keys for FSS scan, too (as probably most do). I'd actually have a pretty hard time finding four free WASD formation keys... Elite is very key intensive game.

F8 toggle like the camera controls. Easy
Though I'd be happy with just throttle (no turning) TBH.