Will repeat myself until this got fixed.

[bamber]

Silent running does NOT make you invisible in this case size does matter. A python in silent running is still a big ship and easy to see!
.
Silent running closes you heat vents and stops internally generated heat escaping. If you use engines or thrusters when in silent running you are still generating external heat that sensors can see. No amount of heats sinks will help
.
So if you are in a ship that needs medium of large docking ports (I.e cobra upwards) and you use thrusters/engines and are silent running then YOU need to adjust YOUR tactics not expec the Npc's to be changed

 

[deMangler]

If you want to make a game, you have to make rules that work. Not rules that work some of the time, and have to be ignored otherwise. If you don't have rules that work, you don't have a game.

Period. You just fundamentally don't have a game.

Very clearly put. I would like to be able to infer from my own experience from playing ED what rules apply and how to make best advantage of them. That is part of the fun of playing a game - especially a game like ED where a huge chunk of the game is the learning curve.
To have a game like ED where the game mechanics actively encourage a sense of curiosity and to reward that curiosity with inconsistent stuff that cannot be figured out without assuming an out-of-game meta is a form of torture.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Silent running does NOT make you invisible in this case size does matter. A python in silent running is still a big ship and easy to see!
.
Silent running closes you heat vents and stops internally generated heat escaping. If you use engines or thrusters when in silent running you are still generating external heat that sensors can see. No amount of heats sinks will help
.
So if you are in a ship that needs medium of large docking ports (I.e cobra upwards) and you use thrusters/engines and are silent running then YOU need to adjust YOUR tactics not expec the Npc's to be changed

I can be flying a black eagle with 0% heat and silent running on the opposite, dark side of a station while the NPC's are facing the opposite direction and they will still flip a 180 and come straight for me.

NPC's have perfect, no boundaries vision in a full sphere, no matter what they're flying or which direction they're facing, no matter what is in between you and them be it an asteroid or a station. I've tested this. I'm not just making nonsense up.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Silent running does NOT make you invisible in this case size does matter. A python in silent running is still a big ship and easy to see!
.
Silent running closes you heat vents and stops internally generated heat escaping. If you use engines or thrusters when in silent running you are still generating external heat that sensors can see. No amount of heats sinks will help
.
So if you are in a ship that needs medium of large docking ports (I.e cobra upwards) and you use thrusters/engines and are silent running then YOU need to adjust YOUR tactics not expec the Npc's to be changed

So if I am facing the front towards the NPCs, being 5km out SR on and 0% heat while thrusters pointing away fro mthe cops/station. Am I supposed to be detected or not?
Also: As of 1.5/2.0 a SR unit becomes visible upon shooting a target. Just like stealth mode in CQC but that's a different story.


BTW. Nice fights yesterday

 

[bamber]

G

So if I am facing the front towards the NPCs, being 5km out SR on and 0% heat while thrusters pointing away fro mthe cops/station. Am I supposed to be detected or not?
Also: As of 1.5/2.0 a SR unit becomes visible upon shooting a target. Just like stealth mode in CQC but that's a different story.


BTW. Nice fights yesterday

Heat radiates in ALL directions if use use thrusters/engines/weapons silent running will NOT help as they are external heat sources. All silent running does is close your radiators

So if you are "flying" you can be seen

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

G

Heat radiates in ALL directions if use use thrusters/engines/weapons silent running will NOT help as they are external heat sources. All silent running does is close your radiators

So if you are "flying" you can be seen

And if I have everything except the power plant turned off, should they still be able to instantly detect me as soon as they jump in while I'm on the opposite side of an object on the very edge of their detection range for a ship running normally?

No discussion to be had here. NPC's do not use the same rules we do, and it creates big problems with the gameplay. It needs to be fixed.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

G

Heat radiates in ALL directions if use use thrusters/engines/weapons silent running will NOT help as they are external heat sources. All silent running does is close your radiators

So if you are "flying" you can be seen

And how should I enter the station without thrusters? I have to use thrusters to position myself in front of the mail slot to atleast go with FAoff in but again, this requires thrusters and that'd be enough for NPCs and their C20A sensors to detect a SR ship.

 

[Crank Larson]

Ah, it's another "Happy Christmas" thread. I love these.

 

[babelfisch]

And how should I enter the station without thrusters? I have to use thrusters to position myself in front of the mail slot to atleast go with FAoff in but again, this requires thrusters and that'd be enough for NPCs and their C20A sensors to detect a SR ship.

They never scanned me when I aligned with the letterbox while beeing 8 km away from the station.

 

[Gold Coins for Cats]

Apparently people assume the Pilots Federation gets access to the same technology that the military and police do.

I am not saying that there isn't a problem. What I think may contribute to the issue, however, is that your methods of stealth may not be as stealthy as you think they are. Virtually everything will cause an unresolved signature, and Security would reasonably be trained to treat any unresolved signal with suspicion. Go figure out how stealthy your infiltration method VS a commander with maximum sensors is and come back to us.

I'd even make the argument that stations would ban the use of SR while in the vicinity of the station if we're going to go down the realism route. Why would you use it if you didn't have anything to hide?

Merry Christmas.

 

[babelfisch]

Apparently people assume the Pilots Federation gets access to the same technology that the military and police do.

I am not saying that there isn't a problem. What I think may contribute to the issue, however, is that your methods of stealth may not be as stealthy as you think they are. Virtually everything will cause an unresolved signature, and Security would reasonably be trained to treat any unresolved signal with suspicion. Go figure out how stealthy your infiltration method VS a commander with maximum sensors is and come back to us.

I'd even make the argument that stations would ban the use of SR while in the vicinity of the station if we're going to go down the realism route. Why would you use it if you didn't have anything to hide?

Merry Christmas.

Good post. Just want to add that there are people who don't get scanned while smuggling. So it's not really a game play breaking bug but a lack of practice.

 

[ratchet5000]

<Snip>

Apparently people assume the Pilots Federation gets access to the same technology that the military and police do.

I am not saying that there isn't a problem. What I think may contribute to the issue, however, is that your methods of stealth may not be as stealthy as you think they are. Virtually everything will cause an unresolved signature, and Security would reasonably be trained to treat any unresolved signal with suspicion. Go figure out how stealthy your infiltration method VS a commander with maximum sensors is and come back to us.

I'd even make the argument that stations would ban the use of SR while in the vicinity of the station if we're going to go down the realism route. Why would you use it if you didn't have anything to hide?

Merry Christmas.

Military composite armor? The current system also makes silent running entirely pointless against npcs.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Apparently people assume the Pilots Federation gets access to the same technology that the military and police do.

I am not saying that there isn't a problem. What I think may contribute to the issue, however, is that your methods of stealth may not be as stealthy as you think they are. Virtually everything will cause an unresolved signature, and Security would reasonably be trained to treat any unresolved signal with suspicion. Go figure out how stealthy your infiltration method VS a commander with maximum sensors is and come back to us.

I'd even make the argument that stations would ban the use of SR while in the vicinity of the station if we're going to go down the realism route. Why would you use it if you didn't have anything to hide?

Merry Christmas.

There are no handwavium explanations along the lines of "Well maybe Frontier is justifying it like this...." or "But if you think about it while considering..." it's just a broken game mechanic that doesn't work.

The type of NPC that scans you doesn't matter, it can be a pirate or a police vessel.

What they are flying doesn't matter, it can be an Eagle or an Anaconda.

What you are flying likewise doesn't matter.

Where you are, what you are doing, and what measures you have taken or not taken to prevent detection do not matter.

If you are within an NPC's range, you are detected, because they have no limitations on being able to find players or other NPC's.

None. Zero. They were never programmed into the game. They don't exist. Making excuses as to why they don't exist won't conjure a legitimate justification into reality either.

 

[Gold Coins for Cats]

<snip>

Military composite armor? The current system also makes silent running entirely pointless against npcs.

We have these wonderful things in the US called Military Surplus Stores, which sell outdated and overstocked military gear. This is not to assume we're getting top of the line gear available for the civilian market. My apologies, though, my first line was an unmarked throwaway joke, and thus not really a serious point I intended for contention.

HOWEVER, I do wish to contend your statement that Silent Running is pointless for NPCS. I have found that angling myself correctly 9KM out of the station and coasting in at 200MPS in a straight line, using Silent Running and Flight Assist off will not draw unusual attention. Something which, as I've said, I think the guards should find suspicious and investigate.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

There are no handwavium explanations along the lines of "Well maybe Frontier is justifying it like this...." or "But if you think about it while considering..." it's just a broken game mechanic that doesn't work.

The type of NPC that scans you doesn't matter, it can be a pirate or a police vessel.

What they are flying doesn't matter, it can be an Eagle or an Anaconda.

What you are flying likewise doesn't matter.

Where you are, what you are doing, and what measures you have taken or not taken to prevent detection do not matter.

If you are within an NPC's range, you are detected, because they have no limitations on being able to find players or other NPC's.

None. Zero. They were never programmed into the game. They don't exist. Making excuses as to why they don't exist won't conjure a legitimate justification into reality either.

You are making the insinuation, please provide the proof.

I am completely for more intelligent and realistic NPCS, and I am assuming that some sort of shortcut is being used here.

BUT. YOU. NEED. TO. PROVIDE. PROOF.

Get with your friends. Show what a CMDR can detect, at what range does a stealthed CMDR disappear COMPLETELY from radar. Not just an unresolved signal. Disappear completely. Then go back to a station and show how much farther an NPC can detect you under the same circumstances.

 

[TheoZ]

NPCs don't follow the rules. HELLO FRONTIER. You have to shadow ban every NPC due to using exploits and hacks.
I wish that every character, PC and NPC, follow the same rules.

Especially when it comes to PvE, stop it already. No idea why there is a need to make NPCs able to detect players (and NPCs) at a 5km range with Silent Running on and 0% heat. I also don't know why they have to have unlimited heat capacity, energy and ammo.

10 "Shadow" Delivery missions failed because NPCs cheat - 0% heat, Silent Running and scan detected and obviously chaffs don't work. I am thinking about spamming your report messenger full with hacker reports of NPCs.

And no, this is not just by "design". Get some ideas together to achieve what you want to achieve without hacks. Thanks.

I'd rather have NPCS cheating than Players cheating. I mind more for the combat loggers than the npcs

Personal opinion of course

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

We have these wonderful things in the US called Military Surplus Stores, which sell outdated and overstocked military gear. This is not to assume we're getting top of the line gear available for the civilian market. My apologies, though, my first line was an unmarked throwaway joke, and thus not really a serious point I intended for contention.

HOWEVER, I do wish to contend your statement that Silent Running is pointless for NPCS. I have found that angling myself correctly 9KM out of the station and coasting in at 200MPS in a straight line, using Silent Running and Flight Assist off will not draw unusual attention. Something which, as I've said, I think the guards should find suspicious and investigate.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



You are making the insinuation, please provide the proof.

I am completely for more intelligent and realistic NPCS, and I am assuming that some sort of shortcut is being used here.

BUT. YOU. NEED. TO. PROVIDE. PROOF.

Get with your friends. Show what a CMDR can detect, at what range does a stealthed CMDR disappear COMPLETELY from radar. Not just an unresolved signal. Disappear completely. Then go back to a station and show how much farther an NPC can detect you under the same circumstances.

Provide your own proof. Grab any ship you want, go to a RES site of your choice, park behind an asteroid and turn everything off. I'm not going to record a 4 hour long video of me wasting my time just to spend the next 2 weeks trying to upload it on my crappy american internet and failing.

You own Elite: Dangerous. I haven't done anything that you can't do. The proof is there for you to witness at any time you find it convenient to do so. The onus of proof isn't on me, because you already have the proof in your possession. Either look at it, or don't, doesn't matter to me.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

I'd rather have NPCS cheating than Players cheating. I mind more for the combat loggers than the npcs

Personal opinion of course

Me too, but NPCs boil my blood enough to make me post here AGAIN.
Just today an ELITE Vette combat logged on me, reported, video evidence recorded for future videos to show the anti cheat and hack team.

However, I am really thinking about recording NPCs cheating and spamming the team full with these as at some point it starts to get stupid.

 

[babelfisch]

Provide your own proof. Grab any ship you want, go to a RES site of your choice, park behind an asteroid and turn everything off. I'm not going to record a 4 hour long video of me wasting my time just to spend the next 2 weeks trying to upload it on my crappy american internet and failing.

You own Elite: Dangerous. I haven't done anything that you can't do. The proof is there for you to witness at any time you find it convenient to do so. The onus of proof isn't on me, because you already have the proof in your possession. Either look at it, or don't, doesn't matter to me.

I never get scanned when I am smuggling, you are either doing something wrong or we are playing different games.

 

[tafkabb]

All pilots have eyes. You could stand in the middle of a football pitch being really really quiet, and I could still see you.

The auto-detect minimum distance is "200-300m"^* by the way.

^{*Sam Sammarco}

 

[Stigbob]

And we don't care what you think occurs when SJA is programming the AI. It's a simple concept: if you want the game to work, it has to work the same way for everyone, even the non-players. Crap shortcuts like this are why we have a broken background sim and PowerPlay also.

If you want to make a game, you have to make rules that work. Not rules that work some of the time, and have to be ignored otherwise. If you don't have rules that work, you don't have a game.

Period. You just fundamentally don't have a game.

The game seems to be working for me, it's all a matter of personal perspective. But then I don't care about either the background sim or powerplay. The way I see it I'm just a pilot in a very big universe, I don't think any one ship can or should be able change the destiny of a planet let alone a system or faction. I can't change the universe, I just play in it and I enjoy that. Han solo not Ming the Merciless is what I wanted and what I got.

I'm a great believer in simple research before buying, the end result is happy gaming. To buy in then demand change is (to me) a waste of money. This can get problematic with backing games in development because you don't know exactly what your getting, I backed ED but only after playing the demo and reading up on it.