Wing beacon trading....Really ?

[Comrade Napoleon]

So I understand this "trend" is now prevalent , well a lot of places. With out detailing further, 2 beacons and a full Wing makes it possible to rather circumvent gameplay completely, to the point the game becomes meaningless.
While this this does not impact my gameplay directly, as I trade/bounty hunt, it does have an impact on CG where trading is involved, and thus everyone.
It does have an impact on everybody's sense of achievement though as ranks become hollow, meaning nothing at all.
Besides the pirate role would then become completely meaningless.
I personally object very strongly to this practice.

Has there been any official comment regarding this practice ? Surely FD must be aware of it.
Sorry if this has been discussed, I cant find a thread, concerning it.

Cheers Cmdr's

 

[Arsen Cross]

I recall them stating that it is not an intended function. How to address it without ruining the beacon mechanics though is another issue. While having used beacon trading myself and earning in excess of 15m/hour I agree it's significantly overpowered.

At this point we just need to wait for them to fix it.

 

[Valethar]

Known issue, with one of the Devs stating at one point that there would be repercussions for exploiting the beacons.

Don't do it, is all I can say.

 

[Galvinar]

I'd be curious to see this post

 

[Aussiedroid]

Known issue, with one of the Devs stating at one point that there would be repercussions for exploiting the beacons.

Don't do it, is all I can say.

I find it interesting that Devs put in flawed functionality like this, then find they say there will be repercussions to users who use it. Sure its not working as intended but penalising users who use as it is currently designed is well kinda of bad joke really lol. The blame is with Frontier for the poor design, not the player for utilising the bad design.

Do you have any links regarding this btw?

 

[Valethar]

I'd be curious to see this post

Did a little digging, seems I was slightly off, it wasn't a forum post it was a reply to a ticket I submitted about a month ago.

In my defense, I have slept since then....

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I find it interesting that Devs put in flawed functionality like this, then find they say there will be repercussions to users who use it. Sure its not working as intended but penalising users who use as it is currently designed is well kinda of bad joke really lol. The blame is with Frontier for the poor design, not the player for utilising the bad design.

That's flawed logic. Many exploits involve game mechanics being abused for purposes outside the intended use of the mechanic. That doesn't magically exonerate the cheaters for using the exploit.

 

[Krait_79]

Did a little digging, seems I was slightly off, it wasn't a forum post it was a reply to a ticket I submitted about a month ago.

In my defense, I have slept since then....

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That's flawed logic. Many exploits involve game mechanics being abused for purposes outside the intended use of the mechanic. That doesn't magically exonerate the cheaters for using the exploit.

Totally agree. It's been known for ages that this is not intended game play yet players continue to exploit this. They only have themselves to blame if it ends badly.

Stop being cheap, man up and play the game properly.

 

[Ydiss]

I find it interesting that Devs put in flawed functionality like this, then find they say there will be repercussions to users who use it. Sure its not working as intended but penalising users who use as it is currently designed is well kinda of bad joke really lol. The blame is with Frontier for the poor design, not the player for utilising the bad design.

Do you have any links regarding this btw?

This has been standard for as long as I've played MMO games. That's since Everquest. Bug or design oversight, it's the same.

They didn't intend the beacon to be used this way. It's obviously being exploited. Doing this is against the terms we all agree to when we agree to use the software.

Some people seem to forget the importance of conducting themselves in a reasonable, adult manner when they play games that they share with other players. It's just common sense. If it feels wrong, that's because it is.

It's not much different to playing a game of monopoly with a group of people, playing as banker and exploiting the fact no one can see you siphoning off cash for yourself. Or playing Dubgdinsyand Dragons and choosing not to record your stats properly.

It's irrelevant whether the outcome "hurts" others. When you play a game with other people and you need to abuse anything to gain, you're not choosing the right behaviour.

And if you get caught, no one will want to play with you.

 

[Aussiedroid]

I do see your point Valethar, although I disagree with penalising players for using functionality/rules in the game. Fix it, stop it, roll back the changes etc if needed before penalising a player (customer), or at the very least Frontier need to communicate to the entire customer base that this is an exploit and cannot be used under any circumstance. In my eyes it isn't cheating if it is part of the game mechanics even if it wasn't how it was intended to work. These are the game rules Frontier has created and as such the onus is on Frontier to address if they feel it is a problem. Until then I think it is a valid thing to use, even though personally I would never use it.

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This has been standard for as long as I've played MMO games. That's since Everquest. Bug or design oversight, it's the same.

They didn't intend the beacon to be used this way. It's obviously being exploited. Doing this is against the terms we all agree to when we agree to use the software.

Some people seem to forget the importance of conducting themselves in a reasonable, adult manner when they play games that they share with other players. It's just common sense. If it feels wrong, that's because it is.

It's not much different to playing a game of monopoly with a group of people, playing as banker and exploiting the fact no one can see you siphoning off cash for yourself. Or playing Dubgdinsyand Dragons and choosing not to record your stats properly.

It's irrelevant whether the outcome "hurts" others. When you play a game with other people and you need to abuse anything to gain, you're not choosing the right behaviour.

And if you get caught, no one will want to play with you.

I don't disagree on any particular point you have raised mate and prefer to have a fair game.

I just think it is wrong to penalise a player when I see the responsibility for this with Frontier.

 

[Ydiss]

I do see your point Valethar, although I disagree with penalising players for using functionality/rules in the game. Fix it, stop it, roll back the changes etc if needed before penalising a player (customer), or at the very least Frontier need to communicate to the entire customer base that this is an exploit and cannot be used under any circumstance. In my eyes it isn't cheating if it is part of the game mechanics even if it wasn't how it was intended to work. These are the game rules Frontier has created and as such the onus is on Frontier to address if they feel it is a problem. Until then I think it is a valid thing to use, even though personally I would never use it.

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I don't disagree on any particular point you have raised mate and prefer to have a fair game.

I just think it is wrong to penalise a player when I see the responsibility for this with Frontier.

The ability to buy upgrades from the founders world and sell them for massive profit was "part of the game design" at launch.

Where does your moral compass point to with that?

The penalty usually involves having the exploited gains being removed. Is this unfair?

At least that didn't directly affect others like the beacon trade exploit has in CGs. This is about being an adult and deciding what the right thing to do should be. In a multi player game, choosing the wrong thing should always result in a penalty.

 

[Jexter]

Why would anyone be punished for using something that is designed for that exact specific thing, ie. popping into space where a beacon is put down? It's not an obvious exploit at all like for instance the mining exploit or the one where you could buy and sell discounted modules. I'd call it clever usage sooner than exploit, seriously. If doing so at stations specifically isn't an "intended usage" then FD should either fix it or communicate very clearly that it's naughty behaviour.

 

[Valethar]

Why would anyone be punished for using something that is designed for that exact specific thing, ie. popping into space where a beacon is put down? It's not an obvious exploit at all like for instance the mining exploit or the one where you could buy and sell discounted modules. I'd call it clever usage sooner than exploit, seriously. If doing so at stations specifically isn't an "intended usage" then FD should either fix it or communicate very clearly that it's naughty behaviour.

Sandro has already said it's being fixed, as it's not what they intended the beacons to be used for.

 

[Wullail]

I do see your point Valethar, although I disagree with penalising players for using functionality/rules in the game. Fix it, stop it, roll back the changes etc if needed before penalising a player (customer), or at the very least Frontier need to communicate to the entire customer base that this is an exploit and cannot be used under any circumstance. In my eyes it isn't cheating if it is part of the game mechanics even if it wasn't how it was intended to work. These are the game rules Frontier has created and as such the onus is on Frontier to address if they feel it is a problem. Until then I think it is a valid thing to use, even though personally I would never use it.

Those who use it , KNOW it's not how it was intended to be used , they KNOW it's exploiting a mechanic to gain advantages (massive credit influx over a small period of time)


I'm sure they will all use the 'it was a valid mechanic of the game' excuse when something happens , (they lose their millions and get ships removed or whatever) .

But it makes no difference , if they're going to use a mechanic of the game for an unintended purpose for gain , it's STILL called using an EXPLOIT.

 

[Ydiss]

Why would anyone be punished for using something that is designed for that exact specific thing, ie. popping into space where a beacon is put down? It's not an obvious exploit at all like for instance the mining exploit or the one where you could buy and sell discounted modules. I'd call it clever usage sooner than exploit, seriously. If doing so at stations specifically isn't an "intended usage" then FD should either fix it or communicate very clearly that it's naughty behaviour.

The intended use for wing beacons was to enable friends to more easily meet up in a system. Choosing to believe it was designed to allow 15m/hour trade where no such functionality existed, on the entire basis that no one has told you differently is exactly the sort of decision I'm talking about.

And the devs have said it here that it's not intended.

So whilst it hasn't been broadcast across the entire game (you'll find no developer does that... You should be able to work out why if you think on it), it has been confirmed as an exploit. And any gains could be removed.

I don't understand how anyone can justify its use. It was immediately obvious that it wasn't intended to me when it was first announced. It's been confirmed as an exploit since.

We're playing someone else's game here. We are sharing that game with other players. It's our responsibility to play it in the intended manner. I fail to see how anyone with a modicum of common sense could fool themselves into thinking this is intended. It either requires you find out about it via reddit (or here) or a very decent understanding of the game's mechanics.

It's not possible to do either without it being clear this isn't right.

Everyone doing this knows very well what they're doing. If they lose millions because they get punished, they have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Reaper2096]

Brilliant, another I have no friends to do this with or I have done this to the point im scrooge mcduck and I demand this "exploit" be removed post haste before others can be as rich as me thread...

 

[Ydiss]

Brilliant, another I have no friends to do this with or I have done this to the point im scrooge mcduck and I demand this "exploit" be removed post haste before others can be as rich as me thread...

It is an exploit. There's no "exploit" about it. Sandro said it is an exploit.

Seeing as this is a "them rich against us poor" morality situation for you, I wish you all the luck in keeping all that money you gained through a confirmed exploit while I will feel quite content that every credit I earned was done with the use of none.

If it's moral high ground you wanted, you sadly missed the mark.

 

[Aussiedroid]

Those who use it , KNOW it's not how it was intended to be used , they KNOW it's exploiting a mechanic to gain advantages (massive credit influx over a small period of time)


I'm sure they will all use the 'it was a valid mechanic of the game' excuse when something happens , (they lose their millions and get ships removed or whatever) .

But it makes no difference , if they're going to use a mechanic of the game for an unintended purpose for gain , it's STILL called using an EXPLOIT.

That is assuming all players know this - I think this is the wrong assumption. Myself I didn't know it was considered an exploit till now (well actually I didn't even know about the trading thing at all before this thread). Haven't seen any statements from Frontier on this and I visit the forums most days.

What of those players who don't visit the forums or are across all these things. Maybe they just play with a couple of friends and figured out the mechanic and have been using it to progress in the game. They could have put many hours into progressing this way thinking it was ok, only to have Frontier remove any progress made from using it. Not everyone would see this as an exploit and that could have a negative effect on those players impacted.

It is easy to just label all players that use this as cheats and exploiters, but that is a very black and white view.

Like I said, if it is an official exploit (despite being designed that way) then Frontier should be making a statement about it and ensure it is communciated to the player base.

Then and only then would I think it fair to claw back any gains players made from it.

 

[CMDR Holycow]

tiny microscopic small potatoes compared to bounty farming.

 

[Spike K]

You can only Nav Lock to one wingmate at a time, right? Or have people figured out a way around that?
Does the beacon pull you to a station if you aren't nav locked?
\\////
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>
O
Spike553

 

[Ydiss]

That is assuming all players know this - I think this is the wrong assumption. Myself I didn't know it was considered an exploit till now (well actually I didn't even know about the trading thing at all before this thread). Haven't seen any statements from Frontier on this and I visit the forums most days.

What of those players who don't visit the forums or are across all these things. Maybe they just play with a couple of friends and figured out the mechanic and have been using it to progress in the game. They could have put many hours into progressing this way thinking it was ok, only to have Frontier remove any progress made from using it. Not everyone would see this as an exploit and that could have a negative effect on those players impacted.

It is easy to just label all players that use this as cheats and exploiters, but that is a very black and white view.

Like I said, if it is an official exploit (despite being designed that way) then Frontier should be making a statement about it and ensure it is communciated to the player base.

Then and only then would I think it fair to claw back any gains players made from it.

This is exactly it.

You didn't know about it until you read this thread. And you know it's an exploit already.

I didn't know about it until someone boasted about it here. I knew it was an exploit immediately. Because I know enough about the game and the reasons wings were introduced to know it wasn't the reason beacons were introduced.

So the only group of players left are those who managed to work this out for themselves.

I'm going out on a limb here but I don't think that portion is very large and it is likely to consist entirely of players like me... Who know very well how the game works. Not a brand new player, fresh off the Steam bus, who just happened upon it totally by accident.

This exploit has been propagated by word of mouth. For those who heard about it here and in reddit, for every person saying "it's intended game design" there are two or three saying otherwise, citing a developer response that it's a exploit.

How certain are you that players are blissfully unaware?

To your last point... I've played MMO games for a long time. No developer is stupid enough to broadcast an exploit just to get players to stop doing it.

The thing is, this isn't a serious, game breaking exploit. So it isn't getting fixed ultra quickly. But FD have deleted credits before. They'll do it again.

There is no "unfair" here. Those exploiting this are at risk of losing everything they gained from it. You can choose to defend them if you think it's the right thing to do. But I just think your view is incredibly naive.