Please stop moaning about earning too much money in the game for the love of God ... if you think you’ve got too much money go buy a load of cargo and eject it into space or something if that balances your conscience.
Wing missions reward nonsense
- Thread starter Kyokushin
- Start date
Yet to take on a Wing delivery mission ... can’t think of a single reason I’d want to do 10 - 20 trips for 4 million on a wing mission vs getting 2 - 3 million for a SINGLE trip on a solo mission. Given the 10x tonnage they should be paying 10x credits but (as others have said) split between wing participants based on how much tonnage each person took. THEN they’d be worth doing and it would also limit the “bootstrapping” of new pilots since they’d get paid a share based on tonnage moves individually so experienced commanders (with bigger ships) would logically get paid a bigger share.
TL/DR: This thread very much is a thinly veiled attempt to get more money out of wing missions be turning them into high-pay solo missions. The term "wings" would only be in their name, while they'd punish actually winging up. I personally would prefer it, if things would instead be made more interesting.
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The whole "logical" of this thread is so for somebody who only things in terms of our present time period. Deals like our current wing missions have existed and are documented. Also, even in our present time there are a few areas where contracts like our wing missions actually still exist.
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So all the "but this is not logical" people: we play a game here, where we act as pilots a milennia in the future, where one of the superpowers is modelled after a time period of the Roman empire. And we go nuts because some missions are offered in a way, which is very niché in our present times, although it was all too common for example three centuries ago?
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Is "logic" really the actual problem here, if deals like wing missions were not that uncommon during other times? It's very easy to go back less than a century and find many things which we by todays standard consider highly unlogical. It's also very easy to go through the game and write lists of several pages or things which actually, within the world described, are not logical. In comparison, wing missions are fine.
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With this covered, we might actually consider something really bizare: this game actually is a game! Yea, i know this comes as surprise, but i have some evidence to prove it!
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And when you consider that this game might actually be a game, then the mechanics given here might actually make sense. All the "one pool of cash, shared by contribution" or anything else like that would work against the biggest goal of wing missions: to be done in a wing. (Yes, that again might come as surprise to some. ) The current implementation gives an incentive to do the missions in a wing. Most of the suggestions given here would discourage this behaviour instead. I mean, why go for the trouble of doing things in a wing, if your wingmen just take away your profit? (Case in point: compare RES hunting, how it was before and after bounties were shared. A little pointer: only since bounties are shared, people now actally do that in wings. )
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Last not least, something which nobody ever seems to consider: for a transport mission, FD does not only want to reward the truck driver, but also the escort pilot. I mean yes, currently there's no actual need for a truck Driver to ever have any protection in this game. Only NPC cargo ships currently ever have an escort, players never do so. So rewarding the escort pilot, who doesn't carry any cargo, currently is a theoretical issue.
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But all in all, that's more how i would address things: add more threats. Make it that a single pilot in an unshielded T-9 might not be the optimal choice to do wing cargo missions. Send out some actually dangerous NPCs out there. Make sure they actually know how to use the FDS interdictors. Give cargo ships a reason to have a fighter along for protection. This would make those missions more interesting, it would add gameplay and a real reason for players to work together.
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The whole "logical" of this thread is so for somebody who only things in terms of our present time period. Deals like our current wing missions have existed and are documented. Also, even in our present time there are a few areas where contracts like our wing missions actually still exist.
.
So all the "but this is not logical" people: we play a game here, where we act as pilots a milennia in the future, where one of the superpowers is modelled after a time period of the Roman empire. And we go nuts because some missions are offered in a way, which is very niché in our present times, although it was all too common for example three centuries ago?
.
Is "logic" really the actual problem here, if deals like wing missions were not that uncommon during other times? It's very easy to go back less than a century and find many things which we by todays standard consider highly unlogical. It's also very easy to go through the game and write lists of several pages or things which actually, within the world described, are not logical. In comparison, wing missions are fine.
.
With this covered, we might actually consider something really bizare: this game actually is a game! Yea, i know this comes as surprise, but i have some evidence to prove it!
.
And when you consider that this game might actually be a game, then the mechanics given here might actually make sense. All the "one pool of cash, shared by contribution" or anything else like that would work against the biggest goal of wing missions: to be done in a wing. (Yes, that again might come as surprise to some. ) The current implementation gives an incentive to do the missions in a wing. Most of the suggestions given here would discourage this behaviour instead. I mean, why go for the trouble of doing things in a wing, if your wingmen just take away your profit? (Case in point: compare RES hunting, how it was before and after bounties were shared. A little pointer: only since bounties are shared, people now actally do that in wings. )
.
Last not least, something which nobody ever seems to consider: for a transport mission, FD does not only want to reward the truck driver, but also the escort pilot. I mean yes, currently there's no actual need for a truck Driver to ever have any protection in this game. Only NPC cargo ships currently ever have an escort, players never do so. So rewarding the escort pilot, who doesn't carry any cargo, currently is a theoretical issue.
.
But all in all, that's more how i would address things: add more threats. Make it that a single pilot in an unshielded T-9 might not be the optimal choice to do wing cargo missions. Send out some actually dangerous NPCs out there. Make sure they actually know how to use the FDS interdictors. Give cargo ships a reason to have a fighter along for protection. This would make those missions more interesting, it would add gameplay and a real reason for players to work together.
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I tried a wing missions with friends.
Dear FDev. Please imagine something. You are hiring a developer. His salary is 7000 EUR for write simple application.
He did application but told you a two friends helped him and YOU need to pay 21000 EUR instead of 7000, because he did a winged project
have fun.
First, oh boy this again.
Next, this is EXACTLY what happens. If I am tasked to colaborate with a colleague at work, my pay isn't suddenly halved because of it.
Third, the pay for the tonnage is rediculously low already.
Can someone clarify if this thread is discussing winged missions get too much or not enough? OP implies too much but others say not enough.
Confused!!!
Confused!!!
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I think it's the usual thing: not enough for himself, way too much for eeeeverybody else...
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It's both.
The payouts are low compared to the solo missions with much lower requirements.
The multiple payouts per person who participates makes no sense given that it divides the effort required.
They can't pay too much and not enough at the same time that makes no sense. You can say they pay too much for newbies and not enough for experienced players. If so then maybe this is a market ting ploy to get new people to play and have their experienced friend help them out.
Malso multiple payouts do make sense, this is why.
4 sofas need delivering from A to B. 1 sofa fits in a car
Each trip from A to B takes 1 hour.
1 car will have to make 7 trips taking, so 7 hours and cost X for delivery.
2 cars would have to make 3 trips taking 3 hours. Cost would have to take into account customer receives sofas more than twice as fast so pays a premium. 2X is reasonable in ED.
4 cars make 1 trip, 1 hour. 4X for 7 times faster is a bargain.
Killing pirates faster/higher chance of success is worth paying more for in ED land. Same for deliverying stuff.
Time is money.
Malso multiple payouts do make sense, this is why.
4 sofas need delivering from A to B. 1 sofa fits in a car
Each trip from A to B takes 1 hour.
1 car will have to make 7 trips taking, so 7 hours and cost X for delivery.
2 cars would have to make 3 trips taking 3 hours. Cost would have to take into account customer receives sofas more than twice as fast so pays a premium. 2X is reasonable in ED.
4 cars make 1 trip, 1 hour. 4X for 7 times faster is a bargain.
Killing pirates faster/higher chance of success is worth paying more for in ED land. Same for deliverying stuff.
Time is money.
My point in this thread is about one simple fact: the credits/tonnage ratio on these wing delivery missions simply isn’t high enough to justify taking them on vs solo missions. Since these were added to encourage/reward people to play in wings, they simply aren’t fit for purpose.
The answer - of course - is to increase the credits to be at least comparable to doing solo missions - or maybe slightly less due to the reduced chances of finding that many high paying solo missions - but that makes them better for individuals than the solo missions and, to the OPs point, if everyone gets the same payout then they would be TOO well rewarded.
So I would say, increase the rewards BUT make it compulsory to complete as part of a wing (minimum 10% tonnage deliver by each wing member) and divvy the rewards up based on tonnage delivered by each wing member. That makes them a genuine option for earning credits, gives and advantage to having a wing but prevents a newb in a Sidewinder from getting a 40mil credit payout simply by winging up with a mate in a T9.
The answer - of course - is to increase the credits to be at least comparable to doing solo missions - or maybe slightly less due to the reduced chances of finding that many high paying solo missions - but that makes them better for individuals than the solo missions and, to the OPs point, if everyone gets the same payout then they would be TOO well rewarded.
So I would say, increase the rewards BUT make it compulsory to complete as part of a wing (minimum 10% tonnage deliver by each wing member) and divvy the rewards up based on tonnage delivered by each wing member. That makes them a genuine option for earning credits, gives and advantage to having a wing but prevents a newb in a Sidewinder from getting a 40mil credit payout simply by winging up with a mate in a T9.
Excellent point.
Ship things express, it costs more. If you need two semi trucks to move you, you'll be charged for 2, not for the one making 2 trips.I tried a wing missions with friends.
What a socialistic nonsense. Thats all what i can say.
I am taking mission for example 2 mln cr. I need to for examle transport 1000 tonnes of crap.
And now two folks are joining us, and we both need to transport 1000 tonnes. Me 500 and folks 500.
1000 tonnes are transported.
So why the hell our income is multiplied not divided? Each of us should earn at least 1/3 of reward NOT ENTIRE REWARD.
Mission profit should be divided, If someone will transprot 1000 tones alone then he should earn all, IF someone will get a friends, he should earn half, because he will spend a half of time on it.
edit: ninja'd!
If someone will kill strong enemy alone, then he should get entire reward. If he not got gut and is unable, then he should wing-up then split reward.
Dear FDev. Please imagine something. You are hiring a developer. His salary is 7000 EUR for write simple application.
He did application but told you a two friends helped him and YOU need to pay 21000 EUR instead of 7000, because he did a winged project
have fun.
This is how I get over without breaking my 'mursion.
edit: oops too late, someone beat me to it.
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I tried a wing missions with friends.
What a socialistic nonsense. Thats all what i can say.
I am taking mission for example 2 mln cr. I need to for examle transport 1000 tonnes of crap.
And now two folks are joining us, and we both need to transport 1000 tonnes. Me 500 and folks 500.
1000 tonnes are transported.
So why the hell our income is multiplied not divided? Each of us should earn at least 1/3 of reward NOT ENTIRE REWARD.
Mission profit should be divided, If someone will transprot 1000 tones alone then he should earn all, IF someone will get a friends, he should earn half, because he will spend a half of time on it.
If someone will kill strong enemy alone, then he should get entire reward. If he not got gut and is unable, then he should wing-up then split reward.
Dear FDev. Please imagine something. You are hiring a developer. His salary is 7000 EUR for write simple application.
He did application but told you a two friends helped him and YOU need to pay 21000 EUR instead of 7000, because he did a winged project
have fun.
Don’t like it, don’t do it.
No one is putting a gun to your head and saying you have to have wing mates.
The missions are there for all you socialites who want to hang with buddies. That’s the reward.
Salting about credits just says that you care more for the “Euros” than you do for your “friends”.
And your example makes absolutely no sense. Cause why would you hire someone who couldn’t do the job and needs help from his friends and then expects more money cause his friends helped. Personally, I’d fire the **** biowaste and get someone who could actually do the job.
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The reason they wont multiply then split the reward is it will encourage solo players to do wing missions.
If a mission currently pays 10mil and a wing of 4 does it they get 10mil each. A solo cmdr does it and gets 10mil. Obviously takes more time solo but thats the way its implemented.
If the rewards were 4X then split between wing members a wing of 4 still gets 10mil each but a solo commander will earn 40mil,i dont think they want solo players having ability to earn 40mil in one mission,so we end up with what we have now.
People will say the wing can do missions 4 times faster,thats not 100% accurate.
If i pick up a good paying mission in a system im fully repped in as a leader of a wing then do it. I still have to travel back there to get the next mission,which may or may not be there depending on RNG. It could be loads of missions paying a lot less.
If were not supposed to board flip we could end up with a solo cmdr earning 40mil quicker from wing missions than a wing of 4 can.
Its crap all round really for wing missions,the only ones worth doing are the assasinate missions imo.
If a mission currently pays 10mil and a wing of 4 does it they get 10mil each. A solo cmdr does it and gets 10mil. Obviously takes more time solo but thats the way its implemented.
If the rewards were 4X then split between wing members a wing of 4 still gets 10mil each but a solo commander will earn 40mil,i dont think they want solo players having ability to earn 40mil in one mission,so we end up with what we have now.
People will say the wing can do missions 4 times faster,thats not 100% accurate.
If i pick up a good paying mission in a system im fully repped in as a leader of a wing then do it. I still have to travel back there to get the next mission,which may or may not be there depending on RNG. It could be loads of missions paying a lot less.
If were not supposed to board flip we could end up with a solo cmdr earning 40mil quicker from wing missions than a wing of 4 can.
Its crap all round really for wing missions,the only ones worth doing are the assasinate missions imo.
So this is still not addressed or commented on? you still get 10+ times more credits per ton for a solo mission compared to a wing mission?
Then i guess we can move those new missions on the big trash pile of stuff they developed, which was broken or bad, and which they never cared to fix or improve. great.
Then i guess we can move those new missions on the big trash pile of stuff they developed, which was broken or bad, and which they never cared to fix or improve. great.
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To put that Screenshot in numbers :
If you do the wing mission with the full four people, you get 7300 credits per ton. if you do the solo mission, you get 44400 credits per ton. that of course gets even worse when you do the missions with 3 or 2 people.
so who thinks this is in any way good or even ok? how can it still be like this after the third balance of these missions?
The reward is multiplied and not divided because:
1) multiplication is the base of this game. Bounty hunting is wing offers the same. Why are you not complaining about it? Powerplay undermining offers the same multiplication. Again, why not complaining ?
2) reward in multicrew has derived from the multiplication. Against a good amount of CMDR will. MC is not used so much and incomes is very low.
3) if the reward wing mission is topped with a large amount of credit to compensate the division.
It will result in a simple fact. Poeple will do them solo and make a large amount of credit. Which will leads to video on YouTube and a nerf bat from Frontier. Resulting in wing mission being completely obsolete.
I don't have any problem with the division. But then Frontier should restricts the wing mission to wing. And not sol players.
1) multiplication is the base of this game. Bounty hunting is wing offers the same. Why are you not complaining about it? Powerplay undermining offers the same multiplication. Again, why not complaining ?
2) reward in multicrew has derived from the multiplication. Against a good amount of CMDR will. MC is not used so much and incomes is very low.
3) if the reward wing mission is topped with a large amount of credit to compensate the division.
It will result in a simple fact. Poeple will do them solo and make a large amount of credit. Which will leads to video on YouTube and a nerf bat from Frontier. Resulting in wing mission being completely obsolete.
I don't have any problem with the division. But then Frontier should restricts the wing mission to wing. And not sol players.
All this! +1
I'm dying for a reason to fly as a wing escort, or to coordinate with friends. Given NPC interdiction is a farce, just solo flying precious metals from Sothis is the simplest way to break the game economy.
this is plain .
player currently do solo missions via board flipping to gain large amount of credits.
equalizing the reward per ton hauled between wing and solo missions, and then divide the reward between participants does exactly that - Equalizing them.
its even plus in for FDEV - less player logins per minute and board refreshs .
the whole "but then more users will solo them" is a non issue. the majority of the playerbase IS playing solo, and having the mission board, that is limited to X number of missions at a time, filled with multiplayer only missions is a bad game design.