Wing Nav lock beacon allows for instant drop from large distances, so why can we not do the same with low wakes?

Miko

M
I'm anti-ganker, but my efforts are in vain because almost every single time I see a seal being interdicted, they are dead upon my arrival with thanks to the tedious and timely nature of closing in on the low wake. I think this game is unevenly balanced to the advantage of those who like to prey upon weaker players. As a lawful, there is no intervention that works anymore. You cannot kill a ganker quickly enough before they kill the seal, even if you get there on time. I try to send wing invites to assist seals, but they never pay them any mind or accept. Even then, is it futile?

So, what can be done to improve this situation? My suggestion at minimum is to reduce the excruciating duration needed to close in on low wakes and drop when wings can fly at full speed and instantly drop from far larger distances using a nav lock beacon signal.

Something has to change because I am of the belief that gankers harm the community in Elite, because collectively, they can utter devastate weaker travellers and traders very quickly like a chain event and there is literally nothing you can do about it except actively patrol and try to keep the enemy pinned down through interdictions of your own.
 

Mr Tuco

M
Dude u're idea is counter productive. If you can drop further out from the low wake so can the gankers :) . More over they could do this even if their not winged up, with the orignal ganker wing who made the interdiction.
As for gankers harming the community this is nonsense. If the community did not want wings of gankers. They should of thought of that before pushing fdev for wings in the first place...
 

Miko

M
Mr Tuco said:
Dude u're idea is counter productive. If you can drop further out from the low wake so can the gankers :) . More over they could do this even if their not winged up, with the orignal ganker wing who made the interdiction.
As for gankers harming the community this is nonsense. If the community did not want wings of gankers. They should of thought of that before pushing fdev for wings in the first place...
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Except that they are typically pulling players out, so them having wingmen doesn't change much when they're picking on a weaker player. Seal clubbing for example. So this minor change would enormously up the advantage for lawfuls and other players actually trying to drop quickly enough to offer some form of assistance.

Your logic on wings and gankers ignores the fact the game could be better improved with regards to actually giving bounty hunters and lawfuls a better chance at tracking and actually being a problem for these gankers. But again, my emphasis is on the lack of parity between how a wing beacon allows this full speed long distance drop but low wakes force you to get in real close and real slow at great time expense. Not very useful for helping anyone is it?
 

Miko

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Dillon Fallon said:
A ship set up for PvP will last 15 minutes 1v1 (at least). Even if you drop on the ganker immediately with 2 wings, the seal is still getting blown up.
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This is sadly true. I think if the fines were heftier for murders and the ATR actively hunting the criminals then perhaps it would up the risk to such criminal cretins. I still think the fact you can't drop on low wakes like you can much more promptly with a Nav Beacon to be a bit lacking in parity and sense, though.
 

dekot

D
For a game with open PvP, it's very very easy to avoid getting ganked. I bet most of the people you send invites to just roll their eyes because for 99% of people playing, losing a ship doesn't mean squat.
 

Miko

M
dekot said:
For a game with open PvP, it's very very easy to avoid getting ganked. I bet most of the people you send invites to just roll their eyes because for 99% of people playing, losing a ship doesn't mean squat.
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Explain to me how it's very easy for seals to avoid getting ganked in OPEN? 🤔

They're called seals for a reason. A lot of them are inexperienced, so don't read player behaviour well in Supercruise or know to stop, drop, then wake. They get interdicted, mass locked and banged up in a single volley usually.
 

aquilla

A
I think this a great idea , would make helping during CG's easier ! always fun to show gankers who's boss , lots of people want to help .I thought the wake scanner worked like this though
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
I don't disagree with Miko on this at all. It would be handy, but implementation is probably very difficult. Expecting a seal to be able to activate a beacon or something (spitballing) on dropping whilst they are following through just wouldn't work.

So some sort of automatic panic beacon on interdiction might work, but again is probably open to some kind of misuse or abuse, like so many parts of the game.

It's a great idea, but implementation is going to be tricky I imagine, without it being twisted to some other use.
 

dekot

D
Miko said:
Explain to me how it's very easy for seals to avoid getting ganked in OPEN? 🤔

They're called seals for a reason. A lot of them are inexperienced, so don't read player behaviour well in Supercruise or know to stop, drop, then wake. They get interdicted, mass locked and banged up in a single volley usually.
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The mechanics are there, people can avoid it. Maybe those seals should, I don't know, learn the game?
 

Miko

M
Bottom Hat said:
I don't disagree with Miko on this at all. It would be handy, but implementation is probably very difficult. Expecting a seal to be able to activate a beacon or something (spitballing) on dropping whilst they are following through just wouldn't work.

So some sort of automatic panic beacon on interdiction might work, but again is probably open to some kind of misuse or abuse, like so many parts of the game.

It's a great idea, but implementation is going to be tricky I imagine, without it being twisted to some other use.
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I have touched upon features that would enhance things, but in this instance I am only referring to the basic low wake signals you see generated when someone drops from Supercruise. So when targeting these, I'd like to see them function in no different a manner than the Wing beacons you can nav lock and go full speed towards and drop from many LS away in an instant. Why the low wakes on the other hand force a steady deceleration over a much longer duration and in need of getting right up to it by comparison is beyond me.
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
Miko said:
I have touched upon features that would enhance things, but in this instance I am only referring to the basic low wake signals you see generated when someone drops from Supercruise. So when targeting these, I'd like to see them function in no different a manner than the Wing beacons you can nav lock and go full speed towards and drop from many LS away in an instant. Why the low wakes on the other hand force a steady deceleration over a much longer duration and in need of getting right up to it by comparison is beyond me.
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I completely agree. It's a royal pita to drop on a low wake!
 

[VR] Bulbulunufus

[VR] Bulbulunufus
Wing drop is a gamey mechanic to support co-op multiplayer by allowing a bit of game skip. I think it's well enough balanced for what it is.

Your gameplay is protecting "shipping" by running interference against "criminal scum". For this you need criminals and "seals" of which there are plenty. You're doing fine. But you can't expect the newbs who don't know how to submit and highwake to know what's going on and shake your hand for your valliant efforts, that they didn't notice because the difference is they got ganked less often than they would have in a universe without you in it that never existed.

You can't stop them being ganked with a faster drop, but you can be on their side and try to make their lives easier. To me, you're aiming to make hotspots in open a little bit less unforgiving so they might stay in open. Part, or maybe even all of that is psychology. As long as I can function (e.g. deliver some cargo) and feel like I'm not alone taking rebuy after rebuy, a dangerous galaxy is not off-putting.
 

dekot

D
[VR] Bulbulunufus said:
Wing drop is a gamey mechanic to support co-op multiplayer by allowing a bit of game skip. I think it's well enough balanced for what it is.

Your gameplay is protecting "shipping" by running interference against "criminal scum". For this you need criminals and "seals" of which there are plenty. You're doing fine. But you can't expect the newbs who don't know how to submit and highwake to know what's going on and shake your hand for your valliant efforts, that they didn't notice because the difference is they got ganked less often than they would have in a universe without you in it that never existed.

You can't stop them being ganked with a faster drop, but you can be on their side and try to make their lives easier. To me, you're aiming to make hotspots in open a little bit less unforgiving so they might stay in open. Part, or maybe even all of that is psychology. As long as I can function (e.g. deliver some cargo) and feel like I'm not alone taking rebuy after rebuy, a dangerous galaxy is not off-putting.
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The people who stay in solo are there because they're afraid of the potential to get ganked. The ones already in open, even the new players, don't have that fear. They're already in open, they know it's not that dangerous.
 

[VR] Bulbulunufus

[VR] Bulbulunufus
dekot said:
The people who stay in solo are there because they're afraid of the potential to get ganked. The ones already in open, even the new players, don't have that fear. They're already in open, they know it's not that dangerous.
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Seems like a gross oversimplification. Are people all born in one mode and never think to use the others?
 

Murky Dregs

Murky Dregs
Miko said:
this minor change would enormously up the advantage for lawfuls
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Why should "lawfuls" be entitled to additional advantage? You want the next closest thing to a teleport because you fashion yourself a "good guy."

Fly your patrols. Do your interdictions. Get more people on your side- if you make this happen you just may be able to preemptively thwart some attacks.
 

[VR] Bulbulunufus

[VR] Bulbulunufus
dekot said:
The people who stay in solo are there because they're afraid of the potential to get ganked. The ones already in open, even the new players, don't have that fear. They're already in open, they know it's not that dangerous.
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So our disagreement is the extent to which mode choice is determined by prejudice or the conditions found in open (in busy locations, obviously). I agree there is prejudice, but I think it's partly determined by experience. I also think that most people switch modes a lot, few are exclusive to one mode as you seem to imply (in general).
 
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