Worst player to player trade system ever

[Mordeth Kai]

Stopping player-to-player credit transactions also stops the game devolving into attacking any ship to extort credits out of the target's pilot.

Stopping sale of ships and modules stops players skipping the requirement to unlock certain ships and Engineers for themselves.

Because players don't already shoot other players for free or to get them to drop cargo?

-remove very sweary video-

Ok here's a scenario that doesn't even take gold selling into consideration.

Player A has played for some time and has more credits than he knows what to do with.
Player B (player A's friend) joins and doesn't want the grind to get a bigger ship.
Player A take pity and gives his friend an Anaconda, then gives him a few engineered mods to put on it. He gives Player B enough credits to rebuy if he looses it.
Player B has not played for more than 5 minutes and now has one of the top ranked ships. He now doesn't want to trade or do any of the "boring" stuff to earn credits himself and instead, becomes a griefer in the starter system, killing noobs in Sideys because it's "fun to hear them cry".

Well done to player A. Due to his charity, the new players in the starter system, trying hard to make an honest living and play the way the game is SUPPOSED to be played, can now enjoy his friend ganking them and laughing because he's now so uber in his engineered Conda without even spending a single day to work for it.

And that it what makes new players quit.

Yeah, I really don't agree with this kind of snobbish reasoning. It's the same mentality behind all the people crying "the game isn't grindy enough, a new player needs to spend at least 2 years trading in a cobra before getting anything bigger, because that's what I did".

Let's take that example, say I have a friend who can only play once a week to every other week and can't spend his entire life in the game like 'it's supposed to be played', I see no problem whatsoever with hooking them up with an anaconda or an FDL and all he needs to fit it so we can do a CZ without him dieing every 3 seconds. But yeah, let's keep the game inaccessible to anyone who can't play it at least 20 hr's a week. Besides, what's it to you if I do give a ship to a friend who is 'unworthy' by your standards? I earned that money, I should be able to give it away or spend it how I please.

It's like saying I can't buy a GTX 1080 and an SSD so my poor friend can play the game, because he didn't earn that hardware. Well I did, and if I give it away it's my choice to do so.

No you don't, that it's rare is enough evidence that it's effective.

If you hadn't mentioned that gold sellers are already in the game, that would be a good argument. As it stands, the justification for this measure is completely eliminating gold selling, and as you mentioned, it failed to do that. There are other ways to allow trading and still combat the cancer that is gold sellers.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

If you want to help a friend with the minimum of risk you can try to give them Trade Dividends. I use them to help new Players get a better start. The way you can use this to help a friend (who have a potential REBUY issue) is to ask them to dock (in PG) at a Station with a good buying price for some commodities (and ask them to stay there for the whole of the session, to keep them safe). Join them in the PG, and set up a Wing. Now start bringing in some of those commodities. Your friend will get a Trade Dividend worth 5% of your profit margin (and does NOT affect YOUR profits) every time you sell your cargo. During a CG I helped four new Players (in two Wings, at separate times) with decent TDs (I was flying an Anaconda with 400T capacity, and the CG was paying very well), of, typically, 80Kcr per Wingman per sale. Normally I can get them (during normal trading) around 25Kcr each.

 

[Lestat]

Because players don't already shoot other players for free or to get them to drop cargo?

I not watching the video that has foul language.

Yeah, I really don't agree with this kind of snobbish reasoning. It's the same mentality behind all the people crying "the game isn't grindy enough, a new player needs to spend at least 2 years trading in a cobra before getting anything bigger, because that's what I did".

It seem you are not very good at trading. What was you trading Fuel? Only making 1,000 a trip?

Let's take that example, say I have a friend who can only play once a week to every other week and can't spend his entire life in the game like 'it's supposed to be played'

Then it seem your friend has better things to do. Family, Job and Elite Dangerous is not for him. Your idea also caters to PvP players. A clan has tons load of money and pay for all the upgrades for the wing making for a invincible wing.

I see no problem whatsoever with hooking them up with an anaconda or an FDL and all he needs to fit it so we can do a CZ without him dieing every 3 seconds.

So your idea is to equip your friend who has no Experiences in playing the game with a Anaconda. Can we say Epic Fail. It like handing car keys to your child and expect them to know how drive.

But yeah, let's keep the game inaccessible to anyone who can't play it at least 20 hr's a week. Besides, what's it to you if I do give a ship to a friend who is 'unworthy' by your standards? I earned that money, I should be able to give it away or spend it how I please.

Well they have better things to do to play a game with you. Family and work. I think your blind to the fact people have better things to do. Your also blind to the fact that Clan would use this to make it invincible wing.

It's like saying I can't buy a GTX 1080 and an SSD so my poor friend can play the game, because he didn't earn that hardware. Well I did, and if I give it away it's my choice to do so.

Giving REAL hardware to a friend vs giving a in game ship is two different things. One real and can be useful for a few years. While giving a ship is fake and can be lost in 5 seconds. See the difference.

If you hadn't mentioned that gold sellers are already in the game, that would be a good argument. As it stands, the justification for this measure is completely eliminating gold selling, and as you mentioned, it failed to do that. There are other ways to allow trading and still combat the cancer that is gold sellers.

The only way I can see gold seller can be in the game is if they play your account for you. That really scary letting someone have your Password Email then hope to have your account back when they are done. The person would have to be a fool to do this.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Because players don't already shoot other players for free or to get them to drop cargo?

Of course they can - however they don't have any access to the target's credit balance when doing so (other than to cause them a rebuy).

 

[DaggerSnake]

A friend got himself into a python, but was unable to afford the re-buy

Elite : Darwin

 

[Tryst]

Yeah, I really don't agree with this kind of snobbish reasoning. It's the same mentality behind all the people crying "the game isn't grindy enough, a new player needs to spend at least 2 years trading in a cobra before getting anything bigger, because that's what I did".

Let's take that example, say I have a friend who can only play once a week to every other week and can't spend his entire life in the game like 'it's supposed to be played', I see no problem whatsoever with hooking them up with an anaconda or an FDL and all he needs to fit it so we can do a CZ without him dieing every 3 seconds. But yeah, let's keep the game inaccessible to anyone who can't play it at least 20 hr's a week. Besides, what's it to you if I do give a ship to a friend who is 'unworthy' by your standards? I earned that money, I should be able to give it away or spend it how I please.

It's like saying I can't buy a GTX 1080 and an SSD so my poor friend can play the game, because he didn't earn that hardware. Well I did, and if I give it away it's my choice to do so.

If you buy the ship for him, he's not actually playing the game is he?

EVERY game has progression, even platform games like Donkey Kong made it harder and harder at each level. Games like Doom and Wolfenstein, you start out with just a pistol and work your way up to a chaingun etc.
Buying the ship for him and giving him such a big head start is like buying Doom and saying you don't want to start with a pistol, you want the chaingun to start with.

 

[Lestat]

If you buy the ship for him, he's not actually playing the game is he?

EVERY game has progression, even platform games like Donkey Kong made it harder and harder at each level. Games like Doom and Wolfenstein, you start out with just a pistol and work your way up to a chaingun etc.
Buying the ship for him and giving him such a big head start is like buying Doom and saying you don't want to start with a pistol, you want the chaingun to start with.

What I looking at is a Clan or guild who working as a group each that has a ton of money that could give to new players then it make PvP even worse.

 

[Robert Maynard]

What I looking at is a Clan or guild who working as a group each that has a ton of money that could give to new players then it make PvP even worse.

Not just that - bypassing any required gameplay to unlock particular ships, Powerplay specials and Engineers - effectively the ability to "gift" fully Engineered ships to new accounts.

 

[Xender]

Lack of trading and credits transfer is very bad idea in my opinion. There are many solutions to handle gold selling... It shouldn't interest you if someone get money on his own or from friend...

It is sad that many peoples praising bad design choices because their are Frontier worshipers...

 

[Lestat]

Lack of trading and credits transfer is very bad idea in my opinion. There are many solutions to handle gold selling... It shouldn't interest you if someone get money on his own or from friend...

It is sad that many peoples praising bad design choices because their are Frontier worshipers...

But how do you account for clan or groups giving billions of credits to fellow clan members or new members. It easy money for them and it hurt Solo players and new players and forces many players to solo mode. Because clan group has the best setup. Players need to earn that. Not handed a lollop and have the best ships and weapons because of a few clan or groups giving billions credits to new players.

 

[Xender]

But how do you account for clan or groups giving billions of credits to fellow clan members or new members. It easy money for them and it hurt Solo players and new players and forces many players to solo mode. Because clan group has the best setup. Players need to earn that. Not handed a lollop and have the best ships and weapons because of a few clan or groups giving billions credits to new players.

And how this hurt you? There is no competition in Elite, still someone need to "grind" those money so this not money from the void. Everything sound fine to me. Still fair economics and players goods sharing are crucial parts of living universe. Creating virtual barriers, limits and restricts turning Elite into space pew pew / sightseeing game rather than space sandbox.

 

[Caramel Clown]

It can't be bad. It doesn't exist.

 

[Gully Foyle]

Many people are under the impression that players cannot trade with other players, and that there is no way to give another player credits. There is, it's just boring as hell. A friend got himself into a python, but was unable to afford the re-buy so I went out to give him some credits. How do you do this? Commodities and collector limpits. Jettison cargo for the other player to pick up and sell. Incredibly tedious and asinine that I can't just forward him some credits and be on my way...

Drop him some palladium.

Transfer or sale of credits is a miasma of opportunities for corruption.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

You mean I didn't have to chop them off?

Gold sellers will destroy any game if you give them an opening to do so. I have seen several games destroyed in this way, economies completely wrecked because players now have too much game cash because they can buy millions at a time. Greed sets in by those looking to get rich quick and charging silly prices for trinkets so rich players give them wads of gold and the rich players are so rich, they don't even miss it. Then you have Mr newbie who bought the game but doesn't have a never-ending supply of real money to buy gold and then has to struggle to get enough to play in game, he soon quits because it's an almost impossible grind to buy even the cheapest item.


Eve Online, EverQuest, World of Warcraft and many other well known titles have been decimated by gold sellers. Would you honestly like to see a Python price go up from 57 million credits to several billion and a rebuy cost of hundreds of millions?

gold sellers never have decimated WoW at all. Theres like 100 different reasons why WOW shrinked before gold sellers were on my list. The onyl important thing against gold sellers is to prevent them spamming their offers to everyone.

except those games are usually standard MMo's where you trade your money for limited drops, while in Elite there is hardly any limited drops (nor any auction houses).

The major point may be money stealing, because pirates ould probably do that and ask for like 50% of the insurance to not get destroyed.

It can't be bad. It doesn't exist.

sounds like a Trump plan, if you kill the industry, then it stops being bad

 

[Mordeth Kai]

Lack of trading and credits transfer is very bad idea in my opinion. There are many solutions to handle gold selling... It shouldn't interest you if someone get money on his own or from friend...

It is sad that many peoples praising bad design choices because their are Frontier worshipers...

Exactly. What I choose to do with my money in game is no ones business but my own. Sure I could have let my over eager friend learn from his mistake in the most brutal way possible, after spending over a month learning as much as he has and saving, playing the game 'as it was meant to be played', but I chose to be generous and that is my prerogative.

Also, everyone is missing the point, player to player trading is in the game, it's just a tedious and repetitive method of trade. Gold sellers weren't prevented either, as someone already pointed out. So all that's left is this snobish MMO mentality from the people who want to feel superior because they wasted more time to get there.

I find it funny, most people look at the game and wonder why there isn't an in game community system equivalent to guilds, and I bet the fanboys will defend the absence of that as well. Ultimately this is just one item on a long list of ways the game is horrible at encouraging or facilitating people working together. So a community makes a guild and the members donate to it to help new members get ships, that gave the community goals and direction, something to work towards, and a way for player to work together. A community coming together will accomplish much, that's not a bad thing, it's a new avenue for players to get involved. Adding a player market will also increase the number of viable professions and ways to make money in game, it will encourage players to mine as a team splitting their tasks instead of each person mining on their own until someone finds painite. It would enable more diversity in the roles played in the game when people can split the rewards afterwards.

Ultimately there is a lot of gameplay prevented by the lack of this feature, and the one thing it was supposed to prevent it doesn't.

 

[StiTch]

Knows why a mechanic is not present.

Finds way to circumvent this omission.

Complains that his exploit isn't convenient.

Spoiler

 

[Evil_Merlin]

Ok here's a scenario that doesn't even take gold selling into consideration.

Player A has played for some time and has more credits than he knows what to do with.
Player B (player A's friend) joins and doesn't want the grind to get a bigger ship.
Player A take pity and gives his friend an Anaconda, then gives him a few engineered mods to put on it. He gives Player B enough credits to rebuy if he looses it.
Player B has not played for more than 5 minutes and now has one of the top ranked ships. He now doesn't want to trade or do any of the "boring" stuff to earn credits himself and instead, becomes a griefer in the starter system, killing noobs in Sideys because it's "fun to hear them cry".

Well done to player A. Due to his charity, the new players in the starter system, trying hard to make an honest living and play the way the game is SUPPOSED to be played, can now enjoy his friend ganking them and laughing because he's now so uber in his engineered Conda without even spending a single day to work for it.

And that it what makes new players quit.

News flash, a lot of the Noob areas are already rife with people doing just this... only there is only Player A.

Who sits there with his buddies ganking noobs.

Been there, done that, have the trophy of rage quitting.


Usually always Goons and such doing it because they think it is fun.

 

[Wariamu]

You mean I didn't have to chop them off?

Gold sellers will destroy any game if you give them an opening to do so. I have seen several games destroyed in this way, economies completely wrecked because players now have too much game cash because they can buy millions at a time. Greed sets in by those looking to get rich quick and charging silly prices for trinkets so rich players give them wads of gold and the rich players are so rich, they don't even miss it. Then you have Mr newbie who bought the game but doesn't have a never-ending supply of real money to buy gold and then has to struggle to get enough to play in game, he soon quits because it's an almost impossible grind to buy even the cheapest item.

Eve Online, EverQuest, World of Warcraft and many other well known titles have been decimated by gold sellers. Would you honestly like to see a Python price go up from 57 million credits to several billion and a rebuy cost of hundreds of millions?

It's not exactly a good argument to say that because others have failed that you can't find the way to do it right tor that no one else has. If everyone thought like that, a lot of things would have never hapenned because a bunch of people tried and they didn't succeed or they did poorly.

Yeah yeah, it's true that having a healthy player economy in games is hard. We don'T even have a good real economy lol. But in games it's possible to implement mechanisms and conditions that can't be violated that make it possible to prevent undesirable things from happening.

The argument of ships becoming more expensive because of gold farmers makes no sense to me since ships are sold by NPCs at a fixed price.

They didn't go out of their way to make it impossible for players to exchange things between each other (at least commodities) but they also didn't do anything to make it possible to exchange credits. Unless someone has read an official statement that it has been done like that to avoid "gold farmers/traders", it doesn't mean that's the reason it'S not in the game. Maybe they just didn't prioritise that feature and it was left out and now they feel like it's not actually necessary... Which I kind of agree with but, at the same time, not allowing exchange of currency in exchange for goods or services is .. killing a bit what they want with their game and community. A player driven world (at least I think that's what they want.) It would be nice if people doing trade runs could hire services from other players in exchange for monnies. It would also allow a LOT of other things to be done between players. Let's be real, interaction between people has quite a bit to do with trading, especially in such a game. In my opinion it could definitely do something good for player to player interaction and make the community even more interesting.

A more constructive example in my opinion is how Runescape did their trading after they disabled dropping items on the ground because of similar problems. They just made a trading new trading system. Now my memory isn't too good about this so I can't say for sure how it worked exactly but the idea was that, in a trade, you had to offer things or almost equal value. That prevents a lot of things.

You know,I understand all your concerns people but it would be nice to see more constructive criticism instead of just rejecting an idea outright.

 

[Tryst]

You know,I understand all your concerns people but it would be nice to see more constructive criticism instead of just rejecting an idea outright.

It would be wise to heed your own words. Many of us have tried constructive criticism, I have even explained how it would be a bad idea even without the gold farmer argument. However, you have practically ignored everyone and kept on telling us how you think it would be good by using the same argument over and over.

You have only one argument, we have provided several opposing ones. I think that says it all.

 

[Wariamu]

I should heed my words? Really? Or else?... [haha]

Are you referring to me? I kept on? IDK I'm confused because I only posted once here. I think you're mistaking me for OP or something lol.

I'm not the judge of the thread here, I'm just bringing my point of view.

(instead of adding another comment about how it would be bad because scary chinese gold farmers are coming for your favourite game. *cough cough* sorry I let that on out. Mostly just joking)

And I was clearly not speaking for the ones who DID critic constructively but the many who didn't.

And no, the amount of argument you 10 people have vs what I said doesn't says jacks... It just says I'm not writing an essay on this at 8 in the morning. Additionally, 10 pieces of randomly picked pieces of change AREN'T NECESSARILY worth more than a dollar. They can be though.

It's that kind of toxic attitude that makes forums annoying and it would be nice to do without it. You have basically just added nothing to do conversation here. If you think I'm wrong at least try to come up with a reasoning as to why. And what you just typed there isn't that.

And I think I'm clearly not saying that a trading system between players has no risks there. If you think otherwise you clearly didn't read my post.

What you're saying doesn't make sense. Just don't. Please.