Yet Another Maps in VR Query

[Agathorn]

Hi all,

I know the problems of using the Galaxy and System maps in VR comes up often. I've been searching and reading tips and what not for a couple days now but still finding myself feeling things aren't quite the way I want them to be.

Two main issues for me:
1) When I play, I keep the mouse right next to me. I would prefer to use the mouse to navigate around the maps in VR as it is much easier than the controller. However, if I do this I run into two main problems. First the game tries to randomly select things based on, it appears, my headlook which is annoying. And secondly, mainly, even once I use the mouse to get the target circle on my target system, the game doesn't select it. Instead I have to get there with the mouse, THEN, grab the controller and jiggle the target circle using those inputs before the game will select the system. This is super annoying.

2) More of an annoyance than a major problem, but even if I did set everything up to use the controller it appears I would still need the mouse because I can find no way to move between the "selected system" menu input and the left hand pane input in using the controller. If I select a system, the focus is on that panel and I can use my UI Left/Right and Select buttons as expected. If I want to move over to the Left hand pane where all the options and what not are, I can do that with the buttons to move umm.. forget the right term but the sub menu? left. The same button you would press to move within the sections of say the Target panel. But once I move over to the left panel, I can't get back to the system panel without the mouse.

 

[Slowfiddler]

This may not be any use to you but below is a pic of how I have set up my HOTAS to deal with galaxy and system maps. It works well once you have got used to it. The next and prev panel controls let me move between the left and right hand panes. I am not sure but I think looking at the panes in VR helps to focus them for input as well. Don't quote me though.
The big PITA is still entering text. I cannot touch type so I enable the Oculus Dash desktop view keyboard if I need to. VR really needs a small kbd to open when a text field is selected.

 

[Meresiga]

This may not be any use to you but below is a pic of how I have set up my HOTAS to deal with galaxy and system maps.

When I want to assign new commands to the HOTAS buttons in the control settings, the commands that were assigned to the same buttons by default are not saved. So – not always this method is acceptable.

 

[Sierra_Hotel]

Hi all,

I know the problems of using the Galaxy and System maps in VR comes up often. I've been searching and reading tips and what not for a couple days now but still finding myself feeling things aren't quite the way I want them to be.

Two main issues for me:
1) When I play, I keep the mouse right next to me. I would prefer to use the mouse to navigate around the maps in VR as it is much easier than the controller. However, if I do this I run into two main problems. First the game tries to randomly select things based on, it appears, my headlook which is annoying. And secondly, mainly, even once I use the mouse to get the target circle on my target system, the game doesn't select it. Instead I have to get there with the mouse, THEN, grab the controller and jiggle the target circle using those inputs before the game will select the system. This is super annoying.

2) More of an annoyance than a major problem, but even if I did set everything up to use the controller it appears I would still need the mouse because I can find no way to move between the "selected system" menu input and the left hand pane input in using the controller. If I select a system, the focus is on that panel and I can use my UI Left/Right and Select buttons as expected. If I want to move over to the Left hand pane where all the options and what not are, I can do that with the buttons to move umm.. forget the right term but the sub menu? left. The same button you would press to move within the sections of say the Target panel. But once I move over to the left panel, I can't get back to the system panel without the mouse.

What type of controller are you using? Every single Galmap function can be mapped to whatever controller you're using. Yes, it requires some setup, but once you do that it works great. The only time I ever use my mouse is if I'm trying to type in the text box to search for a system, and even then I don't necessarily need the mouse to do it.

 

[Agathorn]

What type of controller are you using? Every single Galmap function can be mapped to whatever controller you're using. Yes, it requires some setup, but once you do that it works great. The only time I ever use my mouse is if I'm trying to type in the text box to search for a system, and even then I don't necessarily need the mouse to do it.

As I said, the problem, isn't mapping to the controller. The problem is the mouse is right there and about a million times easier to use, so I tend to just use the mouse. But if you move the target circle with the mouse, the game doesn't seem to actually select the system. You basically move it with the mouse, then have to grab the hotas (which I did bind to the map functions) and slightly move it again for the game to register it. But to answer the direct question, I am using a Thrustmaster Warthog stick and throttle along with some crappy pedals that I need to replace some day.

 

[salmonmarine]

We should have a little laser pointer going from our eyes so we can point to buttons by looking and then press Enter or the trigger on your controller to select. Like literally just have the VR headset function as a mouse input. Keep the rotation/panning/zooming controls the same, but just let us look at buttons to click them rather than this 'wiggle the controller' to shift window focus rubbish. Why this wasn't in the game to begin with is beyond me

 

[CylonSurfer]

As I said, the problem, isn't mapping to the controller. The problem is the mouse is right there and about a million times easier to use, so I tend to just use the mouse. But if you move the target circle with the mouse, the game doesn't seem to actually select the system. You basically move it with the mouse, then have to grab the hotas (which I did bind to the map functions) and slightly move it again for the game to register it. But to answer the direct question, I am using a Thrustmaster Warthog stick and throttle along with some crappy pedals that I need to replace some day.

A mouse is a 2D pointer device and VR is a 3D environment - the issue you are seeing is due to this one simple fact. By all means continue to use the mouse but you'll always have to accept the issues you describe, if you want to make life easy swap your Galmap binds to your HOTAS / Pedals and accept that 2D pointing devices were never designed to be used in 3D environments. Personally I can move around the Galmap with ease with my HOTAS / Pedals, so much so I'd never consider using a mouse even if I were to play the game in 2D.

 

[salmonmarine]

A mouse is a 2D pointer device and VR is a 3D environment

Fdev could make headlook function as a pointer like some other VR games. I actually wouldn't mind if the maps in VR were more 2D like on a screen in front of you, kinda like the FSS

 

[Sierra_Hotel]

As I said, the problem, isn't mapping to the controller. The problem is the mouse is right there and about a million times easier to use, so I tend to just use the mouse. But if you move the target circle with the mouse, the game doesn't seem to actually select the system. You basically move it with the mouse, then have to grab the hotas (which I did bind to the map functions) and slightly move it again for the game to register it. But to answer the direct question, I am using a Thrustmaster Warthog stick and throttle along with some crappy pedals that I need to replace some day.

The mouse clearly isn't a million times easier to use if it doesn't do what you want it to. If you already have the binds setup, why wouldn't you just use the HOTAS controls as intended? This seems like a self-inflicted problem.

 

[Agathorn]

Ok guys (or girls) still don't seem to be understanding the issue described. My apologies if I wasn't clear. Let me try to clarify.

mouse is a 2D pointer device and VR is a 3D environment

Yes, I understand that. While there ARE ways around this, I understand that the way Elie works is that you can't use the mouse as a pointing device in the galaxy map. I accept that, and that is not what I am trying to do.

Instead, what I am doing, is using the mouse to move the VR target circle around the map rather than HOTAS controls. IE using right click and drag to move the target circle up, and both buttons and drag to move it laterally around. Left click and drag to rotate around and mouse wheel to zoom. Using all these controls not to point with cursor, but rather to move the target circle the same as you would using a HOTAS. I do this because it is far easier, and faster, than the HOTAS method.

However, when the target circle is moved this way, the game doesn't register it as moved because it was moved using a method other than the bound controls. As such it doesn't "select" the system that the target circle is placed on. It only selects the target circle system when the circle is moved using the bound controls.

So what I normally do is get the target circle in he right spot with the mouse, then grab my stick (yubba yubba) and jiggle it slightly so it resnaps and selects the system.

The mouse clearly isn't a million times easier to use if it doesn't do what you want it to. If you already have the binds setup, why wouldn't you just use the HOTAS controls as intended?

Because even with the issue it is sill faster and easier to get here with the mouse and then jiggle the stick than to get here completely with the stick.

This would be an extremely simple fix by Frontier to simply recognize he target circle when it was moved using the mouse. Is it a "self-inflicted problem"? Maybe, but what is wih the trend these days of dismissing people for "doing it wrong" when the opportunity to improve something exists?

Fdev could make headlook function as a pointer like some other VR games.

Never been a fan of the "face-mouse" method. Its really hard to use. A better method is to simply project the mouse as a ray back in camera space. They already do this for other panels. Regardless I have no beef with the current map system aside from the quirk about the selection circle not "registering" if moved with the mouse rather than the bound controls.

EDIT: Lots of typo edits due to my cursed "t" key that likes to not work.

 

[dogbite]

I use the mouse for every thing I did on a monitor except for binding one hat on my throttle to move the cursor on the x,y plane in the GM which also moves it in horizontal and vertical in the SM. I still move the z axis on the GM by holding the RMB and using the mouse to control vertical movement.
When zoomed out moving fast across the map use the mouse wheel to zoom in slowing speed . When close enough to a target zoom to closest view and use the "hat" to move the cursor over the star. When the flag appears, click or push the assigned button to select. For my part the default game settings for my Saitek Hotas X52 already had buttons and hats assigned for menu scrolling and selection, but the mouse can be used as an alternative.. I particularly like being able to zoom out to max and drag across the entire map. For me, aside the final selection of target needing a hat to position the cursor precisely in VR, all the rest of the mouse map functions function as required.

 

[Agathorn]

I use the mouse for every thing I did on a monitor except for binding one hat on my throttle to move the cursor on the x,y plane in the GM which also moves it in horizontal and vertical in the SM. I still move the z axis on the GM by holding the RMB and using the mouse to control vertical movement.
When zoomed out moving fast across the map use the mouse wheel to zoom in slowing speed . When close enough to a target zoom to closest view and use the "hat" to move the cursor over the star. When the flag appears, click or push the assigned button to select. For my part the default game settings for my Saitek Hotas X52 already had buttons and hats assigned for menu scrolling and selection, but the mouse can be used as an alternative.. I particularly like being able to zoom out to max and drag across the entire map. For me, aside the final selection of target needing a hat to position the cursor precisely in VR, all the rest of the mouse map functions function as required.

Yeah that is pretty much what I do. Like I said, the mouse works fie except for the fact that the selection circle doesn't register when moved with the mouse, so once you get it to the star you eed to wiggle the circle with the HOTAS for the game to register it.

But its silly. Why not just make it so the game registers the circle when moved with the mouse? There is no logic to it. The cirlce does move with the mouse, the game just doesn't "see" it. Its a bug pure and simple.

 

[dogbite]

Yeah that is pretty much what I do. Like I said, the mouse works fie except for the fact that the selection circle doesn't register when moved with the mouse, so once you get it to the star you eed to wiggle the circle with the HOTAS for the game to register it.

But its silly. Why not just make it so the game registers the circle when moved with the mouse? There is no logic to it. The cirlce does move with the mouse, the game just doesn't "see" it. Its a bug pure and simple.

I think it might be because the mouse doesn't really function in 3d and has a hard time with the precision in that environment. The cursor (blue reticule) operates better being assigned to x.y axis for the precision of capturing the target.
When I first migrated to VR, I was pleasantly surprised that the default Saitek settings also afforded much of the map and menu control. Even the x,y movement was assigned to my throttle hat by default. The operation of the maps using both the mouse and that hat is the most efficient method I have found and it works better than other bindings I have tried. For me anyway.

 

[Agathorn]

I think it might be because the mouse doesn't really function in 3d and has a hard time with the precision in that environment. The cursor (blue reticule) operates better being assigned to x.y axis for the precision of capturing the target.
When I first migrated to VR, I was pleasantly surprised that the default Saitek settings also afforded much of the map and menu control. Even the x,y movement was assigned to my throttle hat by default. The operation of the maps using both the mouse and that hat is the most efficient method I have found and it works better than other bindings I have tried. For me anyway.

I'm sorry but you've once again like many of the previous repliers, missed the point. The mouse isn't being used as a pointing device. In VR you have the target circle that moves along he grid in response to analog or digital inputs that say "move left, move right, move up, move down". If this circle is moved using he bound commands in the menu, then whatever the target circle is moved over is selected. If however you move this target circle using the mouse as analog axis inputs - not by pointing and clicking - such as by holding down left and right buttons and move the mouse around, it will still move the target circle, but whatever but whatever the target circle is over will not be selected. This is because the mouse is not bound as the axis controls in the configuration. If you do bind the mouse as the axis controls in the configuration then the target circle suddenly works. However, as was stated, Elite has a habit of randomly unbinding controls which are "default". In this case that is the mouse since it works even when not bound.

 

[dogbite]

Thought that is what I said. Guess I didn't express it clearly.