yet another Panther Clipper thread (including simple pictures)

[Wolf Starslayer]

Don't see the hype for getting the flying brick in game and no real use for it .

Rather they spent the dwindling amount of dev time they have these days on features ,not a new way to move a few extra tons of the latest money-printer.

 

[Arioch]

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:wiggles eyebrows:

 

[Rubbernuke]

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:wiggles eyebrows:

But while the Prometheus has twin hinged engines and a distinctive design the PC is still a brick with swivel nozzles.

 

[myothershipisacobraiv]

View attachment 166190

:wiggles eyebrows:

Not sure if trade ship...

...or fight ship.

There's just too much engine going on and not enough hump going on.

Are we looking at Zorgon Peterson's top-level combat ship?

The Tiger Cruiser XXL?!

 

[CMDR Yates]

• be too big for large pads
• need a different type of docking mechanic

That superficially sounds cool. But it might be too much faff, development time, and potential for knock-on effects on gameplay, I fear.

I know the Panther Clipper was HUUUGE and had an INSANE payload in the older games -- 2100 tons of cargo space -- but Elite 2 and FFE had a completely different power curve in terms of ship size, capacity, and everything else. And a bigger mailslot.

IMO Elite Dangerous's Panther Clipper only (!) needs to have a 1.25-1.5x larger cargo capacity than the Imperial Cutter (which has the current biggest payload, as far as I know), and be visually bulkier than anything else.

If it had a body as wide as the fins on the Beluga, landed with its nose right on the front edge of the large landing pad, had the turn rate of a breeze block, had better shields and hull than any other ship to make up for it, and was bristling with hardpoints, then that would be enough of a nod to the the original ship IMO without them having to sink goodness-knows-how-long developing other new assets, mechanics and gameplay loops to accommodate another class of ship between personal starships, fleet carriers, and megaships.

Headcanon: the new Panther is downsized a bit from previous models to be able to make use of FSD tech, while still being the biggest ship able to dock at stations.

 

[madMaml]

Perhaps. I also feel there is no point in adding the PC if it is going to be just another big ship.

The PC is not just another big ship, but THE big ship.
Despite the draft being smaller in lenght and width than a Beluga, it has trice the volume of a Beluga and seven times the volume of a Conda. Even when it fits in the large bay.

No idea whether there is a reasonable purpose for such a ship.

 

[Arioch]

But while the Prometheus has twin hinged engines and a distinctive design the PC is still a brick with swivel nozzles.

Aye, it’s a shame FDev would never update a classic design to better suit modern sensibilities...

...oh heck, I think my eyebrows are still wiggling

Vive la brique!

 

[Nadreck]

Hard to see a niche for it.

If it carries more than the T9, and still fits on a Large pad, it will make the T9 obsolete. If it's a "sluggish battleship with turrets", it will make the T10 obsolete. And if it can't fit on a Large pad, it won't be the same ship anyhow (as previously it could), and will require new facilities just for one ship (though possibly usable by Carriers too).

 

[CMDR Yates]

Hard to see a niche for it.

If it carries more than the T9, and still fits on a Large pad, it will make the T9 obsolete. If it's a "sluggish battleship with turrets", it will make the T10 obsolete. And if it can't fit on a Large pad, it won't be the same ship anyhow (as previously it could), and will require new facilities just for one ship (though possibly usable by Carriers too).

Yeah, that was always the problem. IIRC FDev confirmed that was why it hasn't found its way into the game yet, despite preliminary work being done on it, and shown in an old newsletter.

Arguably, there could be a niche for it as a ship that carries half again as much as the Type 9 (or twice as much, or whatever), with more guns than the Type 10, but is absolutely crippled in terms of manoeuvrability. Like, it turns twice as slowly and requires a completely different approach to piloting. You can sluggishly dogfight in a Type 10, but there would be no dogfighting in a Clipper. You'd have to fly super conservatively. The question is: would enough people find enough fun in that, for it to be worthwhile?

It's true niche might be as a big NPC ship for Pirates to target.

 

[Chorda]

Your version looks like Big Trak, so I approve.

 

[Cosmo]

If we still get the Panther Clipper, it'll likely be part of the next expansion.

Last weekend, I fooled around a bit by anticipating how a Faulcon DeLacy's, a Lakon's or a Core's approach on the Panther Clipper may look like and came to this (just basic shape, no ornaments and details yet):

I like the utilitarian design that you made. It should take up most of the space on the largest landing pad. By adding curves it'll have better aesthetics while being bloated.

No idea whether there is a reasonable purpose for such a ship.

There's a demand for bigger trading ships. This should be the largest one that can dock on a landing pad. Thereafter is the capital ship-class.

 

[CMDR Seron]

Actually there are already Panther Clippers in the game – in a way: (Translation: "I mainly flew a Panther Clipper LX. It was a really exciting time. It was time for me to learn something new, gain some experience in the galaxy …"

 

[RamirezKurita]

There's a demand for bigger trading ships. This should be the largest one that can dock on a landing pad. Thereafter is the capital ship-class.

Not only that, even if it were to be "only" as good as the Cutter and T9, it would still introduce some viable competition into the market for high end trade ships. Of course, the trick there would be to figure out how to make it equal in performance to the Cutter while retaining its own character and not simply being a copy+paste of the Cutter's statline.

 

[aRJay]

Undersized engines, imo.

The whole thing is undersized in my opinion, there is a lot of pad visible, but then I always fancied that the PC would actually need shuttles to get the cargo in and out of the stations.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Perhaps. I also feel there is no point in adding the PC if it is going to be just another big ship.

I strongly disagree. We absolutely need a cargo ship that dethrones the Cutter as best hauler. The Panther wouldn't make the T9 any more obsolete than the T9 makes the T7 obsolete. The T9 is just a stepping stone on the way to Cutter anyway.

The Panther is way longer overdue than the fleet carriers. Sadly expectations of the community for what it should be have been so ridiculously overblown that it will probably never see the light of day.

 

[Hooplah]

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I realise this is a low quality rendering and I've done some additional work so poeple are able to better visualize how it'll look to fly.

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LeoBartle85's funny rendering is more appropriate for the Frontier: Elite II (c1993) Long Range Cruiser. While the Panther Clipper had a cargo capacity of 2000 tons the LRC had 15,000. Of course it could not dock at a station nor be flown in regular game play. But being DOS programming fans like me edited the coding so that we could. It was still mostly useless but the point was that we could fly it! Those were great days in Elite.

I also know Pumice (a volcanic rock) when I see it. Being soft it is used to remove stains from a toilet bowl without scratching the porcelain. Rub hard no worries just keep everything wet. Amazing. So the next time your better half wants you to clean up the toilet bowl use a pumice rock. With a little creativity and some wet filing in the back it can easily be shaped into a Long Range Cruiser. Thus a clean bowl, a happy better half and and an Elite 3-D model. Get a little plastic aircraft stand to display it on your desktop. It even has the right FE2 color!

Regards

 

[Hooplah]

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:wiggles eyebrows:

I love this image including the engine nacelles moving in ways slightly backward that the Panther Clipper never did. Frontier are you paying attention? Did you watch Joss Whedon's Firefly DVDs? Did you lay off all the big ship programming talent? Frontier Store how many thousands of Elite players across the world over 35 years (who haven't died yet) are waiting to purchase ship kits and paint jobs for the Panther Clipper? Sure next time do a Gecko that I'm guessing few liked in the first place quickly moving onto other ships versus a Panther Clipper with so many players emotionally connected to it. Elite Dangerous will never be complete without a Panther Clipper. Well, my opinion. Others who never flew it opinions may vary.

With business in the next quarter who are your stockholders going to invest in? A Gecko or a Panther Clipper? Then again ED might not be what you are currently promoting at the board meetings. I get it. Hope the Zoo works out.

We don't need a Panther Clipper like a Cutter with the abilities to fly in open mode and protect itself. Given it's massive cargo capacity we'll need live players in open mode to defend it. Many will fly in solo mode but with advanced NPCs they will have issues. We just need it a lot more than fleet carriers. Work on it.

Regards

 

[Iskariot]

I strongly disagree. We absolutely need a cargo ship that dethrones the Cutter as best hauler. The Panther wouldn't make the T9 any more obsolete than the T9 makes the T7 obsolete. The T9 is just a stepping stone on the way to Cutter anyway.

The Panther is way longer overdue than the fleet carriers. Sadly expectations of the community for what it should be have been so ridiculously overblown that it will probably never see the light of day.

I see your point and I do agree somewhat. I am very ambivalent about this. I too really wanted the Panther Clipper in the game, as I have good memories of it (Frontier: Elite II), but I hope FDev will do something unique with it. If not, then I really don't care for it. A ship with just a few tonnes more cargo space is a mostly meaningless addition as far as I am concerned.

Braben himself mentioned shuttle gameplay in one of his interviews. I hope we can finally have that with the PC, because I think this could add a lot of cool to big ship gameplay if done well..
I also hate big ships behaving like fighters. That is why I hope the Panther will be different in that respect.
But perhaps I should give up on my hopes. A lot of mechanics seem not to have been thought through very well. Big ships behaving like ridiculously big fighterplanes is just one of them.
FDev is very unlikely to revise this what I perceive to be a design blunder at this stage of development.

In general I have come to think FDev lacks the will and the ambition to turn this Elite game into a truly legendary spacesim. Too many important things have been left on the side for this to be a coincidence.

 

[Iskariot]

Actually there are already Panther Clippers in the game – in a way: (Translation: "I mainly flew a Panther Clipper LX. It was a really exciting time. It was time for me to learn something new, gain some experience in the galaxy …"

Nice try, but a word is not the thing.
You can put all the words in the universe into a box, and still have no game.

 

[Bruce Warren]

I hope FD drop the word "clipper" from the name and just call it the Panther LX.

Why? Because IRL clippers were supposed be fast and the panther is the slowest ship in the game.