You know what really grinds my gears?

That's not really how I see it shaking out. People push for max engineered ships, claiming it is required to do so. I argue that if you tip into Engineering when you really feel like it, it is alight process. Alternative would be handing out Engineered modules like product samples at supermarket and I am not seeing that happening.

I would argue that you really hear what you want to hear from here to push your point, not necessarily trying to understand what I am saying.
I'm one of those speaking, and I feel the entire process is open to critique from G1 to G5. They are all in the game and part of the game. As such they should be designed to be engaged with and as such engaging with them shouldn't be doing it wrong. If you're engaging the process "when you really feel like it" and now is when you really feel like it that shouldn't be a problem. That doesn't at all mean you need to outside of PvP arguably. And I've not actually seen anyone claiming otherwise regularly.

As for only seeing arguments you want, I was very much just pointing out you doing that and it seems you're doubling down here considering the responses I've provided you and have seen others provide you on this very subject.
 
I'm one of those speaking, and I feel the entire process is open to critique from G1 to G5. They are all in the game and part of the game. As such they should be designed to be engaged with and as such engaging with them shouldn't be doing it wrong.

You can have different experiences with parts of the game, you know that right? I don't deny some people feel it that they should grind them. I don't. In result I feel less salty about that.

Now I am not saying I am right or wrong, but it might just be how you approach parts of the games matters - as in, that later results in your experience being good or bad for you.
 
You can have different experiences with parts of the game, you know that right?
Yes, but you're seemingly denying the validity of a subset of those feelings. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't deny some people feel it that they should grind them. I don't. In result I feel less salty about that.
And I feel that avoiding direct engagement with a process being the key to liking the process means it's a bad process.

Now I am not saying I am right or wrong, but it might just be how you approach parts of the games matters - as in, that later results in your experience being good or bad for you.
Maybe the issue has to do with the fact that activities I'd long ago decided I'd rather not do have content locked behind them, and that in certain ways content I'd rather do won't reward me what I need at an appreciable pace. The alternative is to not engineer some things at all, but again, a process you need to avoid probably isn't a good process.
 
Mobius is boring. The risk of suddenly & randomly being blown up for no reason adds excitement to the game.:rolleyes:
 
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I think they got the idea from here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/397931-Mobius-Mode



Oh wait....... :D
Nice find. :)

Yeah, I've been advocating Mobius since its birth as it was the only real alternative for players wanting to PvE.

Initially I thought I was sticking it to FD by pointing out on these forums that +50.000 players were finding their way to a player driven private group, but I've come to realise (yes, I'm a bit slow I know) the obvious truth:

If you repeat a falsehood enough times, some people might consider it fact.

Falsehood: Mobius is FDs PvE mode
Fact: Mobius private group was created out of necessity, because FD didn't think it prudent to balance their game.

Fact: More and more players, and perhaps even FD at this point think that they can let a handful of dedicated players supply a mode that should have been on the main menu from the get go.

The problem with sarcasm (and yes I know, it's my own fault) is that you can choose to ignore it, and end up with the opposite meaning. I'm not advocating Mobius private group, I'm trying to provoke a response from players and FD. And yes, I know that's not how you're supposed to do things, but that's just how I roll. :)

They can always change open to how Bethesda is handling PVP in the up coming Fallout 76. If you want to attack someone you target them and attack. Your weapons only do 5% damage. If the person attacks back you can have full power weapons. If they dont and you keep attacking you get a high bounty on your head and your location marked on the map and become blind to any incoming enemies unless you can visually see them.

Then Open becomes PVE and a PVP environment.

I could only imagine the explosiveness of the forums if that happened.....I'm all for PVP and finding some balance, but it seems like Beth is going to the far extreme of promoting PVP with extreme consequences for people that do not want to and are attacked.
I like it. Trying to create a single environment for multiple playstyles. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

At least Bethesda is trying. FD never even tried.

Context really does not matter. People think their opinions matter and will change game. I think that really doesn't work that way. Everybody is so engaged in forum meta, thinking that mention per day will bring their pet issue or change closer to reality, while forgetting to engage with game as it is.

Seen with tons of other games, and ED is no way different in that way.



It is an issue for people not being to accept game has only one 'see all' mode that has everything and not preselected rules of engagement.
Why are we here (in this forum) if not to discuss Elite: Dangerous?

Context is (and always will be) everything.
 
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Silicon Carbide

It's something like this which really grinds my gears

G450_009_WP-1024x512.jpg
 
So players also say Engineers is mandatory while I am keep flying in Open without any Engineered module.

As....players and people will say lot of things to re-confirm their bias or opinions how game should be.

Doesn't mean they are right or I am wrong.

^^ well put.

Though flying in open in hotzones is a jankfest. Mostly.

My take on Mobius populartiy : lack of PvP policing both from the game itself and the "emergent content" gangs along with a safe haven = migration to greener pastures.

Don't crap where you eat heh. XD

Open could have been so much more. Alas. Tragedy of the commons and lost opportunities...

note : I still fly open mostly. Because 1) I'm decked out to flee 2) I tend to avoid hotspot jankzones.
 
Nice find. :)

Yeah, I've been advocating Mobius since its birth as it was the only real alternative for players wanting to PvE.

Initially I thought I was sticking it to FD by pointing out on these forums that +50.000 players were finding their way to a player driven private group, but I've come to realise (yes, I'm a bit slow I know) the obvious truth:

If you repeat a falsehood enough times, some people might consider it fact.

<snip>
Context is (and always will be) everything.

I think it's more like the adoption of a brand name or word/phrase like "hoovering the carpet" instead of "vacuuming the carpet".

And I was confused on your real/current? position after reading some old posts.....

Maybe a PVE mode should have been in from the start but it wasn't so we have what we have and I doubt that it will change now.
 
Mobius private group was created out of necessity, because FD didn't think it prudent to balance their game.

You wot? Mobius is a commander, who created a private group, as they fundamentally disagreed with the terms of service (ToS allows for friendly-fire) and applied their own moral code (no friendly-fire) where the rules and their policies run in parallel to the ToS. This is fine, as it's an opt-in, invite only group and admission mean you are held to a specific set of Mobius terms, not just the ToS. No problem? it's a player run group and their word is law. But that's what it is.

This has nothing to do with Frontier balancing (or not) their game. It's because Frontier offered three types of experiences, and none of them were considered acceptable, so a proxy forth was created, that entirely relies on commanders not doing something they can otherwise do. Did you know PvP was actually permitted in the apparently PVE only group for some time? Eventually, it was revoked.

Mobius is ostensibly a dictatorship and relies on people following rules, where they cannot be compelled to do so (only ejected). It works for a lot of people? Again this is all fine and I reckon Mobius is a pretty good sort and I sure have no quarrel with them But it is, what it is. A dictatorship with rules. I have no problem with anyone starting a PG with a set of rules for admission and ejection, either.

But PVE as a defacto mode necessarily removes much of what makes player co-op enjoyable. The very thing that ostensibly exists in Mobius. Co-op. A true PVE mode cannot be as the Mobius PG is. Because it cannot prevent action; only react after it. Frontier cannot realistically use that model. So they would, necessarily, have to administratively enforce it. Because they have to prevent it.

Folks will not always grasp this, unfortunately. So will, forever, ask for the impossible (because that specific implementation cannot work as is) and then be confused why it cannot be.

--

This means fuel rats cannot refuel, people cannot tea-bag, commanders cannot deploy repair limpets for others. Ships cannot have colliders (with other commander ships). SRVs cannot interact. The list is endless. A vast percentage of the interaction people take for granted in Private Groups goes bye bye. It must. Because Frontier cannot claim it's a PVE mode unless most every aspect that can be used to the detriment of others, is removed.

As they have said; it would become an endless game of whack-a-mole as they remove endless features that can be exploited. And I'd humbly suggest removing endless features would not help Elite in any fashion!

This, is why there's no official PVE mode. Not because Frontier are mean, or incapable, but because it necessitates the removal of virtually all commander interaction that people want to exist. It necessarily has to. Which runs entirely counter to Frontier's design and goals. It's also creating a massively limited fourth mode, in game that already has three.

--

Bethesda understands interaction between people is the desired outcome, they're just trying another approach to the same basic conundrum. How do you allow full contact multiplayer, without allowing full contact multiplayer. Answer? You can't. So.. they're just going to make people targets and turn the entire community into vigilantes and let them run amok. Which, ironically, makes sense. Fallout is a post-apocalyptic landscape full of the desperate and the depraved.

--

The time for Frontier to have created that PVE ghosted-mode type deal was during Alpha. It's been five years. Trying to shoe-horn that in now would be diabolical. And it would share no similarity with Mobius' Player Group. Me? I'd rather Frontier solve PG scale and ensure there was a proper permissions model and delegation of authority for the love of god. Let the systems that exist now, work smarter, rather than trying to stuff everything back into the bottle.
 
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You wot? Mobius was a private group created by an individual who fundamentally disagreed with the terms of service, and created their own version of Elite, where the ToS aren't relevant, and their policies were. This is fine. But that has nothing to do with Frontier balancing their game. Did you you PvP was permitted in the PVE only group for some time? Eventually, it was revoked again.

It's got nothing to do with the TOS, he liked the idea of a no PVP PVE private group and it proved so popular FDEV had to twiddle the settings as it grew so big it broke the game, twice IIRC. The TOS allows for private groups with their own rules, so that's really not a thing.

It just shows that PVE with other players is more popular than FDEV anticipated.

To make a PVE mode wouldn't be that hard, we already have friendly fire munitions experimental effect code in place so apply that to all weapons. That only leaves ramming, which could also be nerfed in a PVE mode and might actually make for fun games of dodgems round the station.
 
It should be called MPeV.

PeV = Solo. One Player vs. Environment

What is missing (for some, not for me) is

MPeV = Multiplayer vs. Environment
 
Some chowderhead who doesn't know when to keep his big trap shut?

[video=youtube_share;Rd5dYQHoZS0]https://youtu.be/Rd5dYQHoZS0[/video]

:p

P.S. I see now that this could read as if it's directed at someone here - sorry, it's not - just a funny film reference 'tis all!
 
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You wot? Mobius is a commander, who created a private group,...

You wot? Mobius is a surface with only one side (when embedded in three-dimensional Euclidean space) and only one boundary.

Joking aside; you know what I mean, but nice rant.

...Let the systems that exist now, work smarter, rather than trying to stuff everything back into the bottle....
Obviously, I don't agree.

When players and maybe even FD start referring to a player driven private group as an official mode, things should literally be hitting the fans at FD.

I love Elite: Dangerous as much as the next white knight, but balance has never been a part of the game. I can not fathom the reason (apart from inadequacy), but FD effectively only released one mode: Open. Private groups was a lazy effort at appeasing the players who would complain about the obvious lack of balance, and were never meant to hold +50.000 players. Solo mode is the abomination that should have been Off-line mode as promised.

FD really should adress the number one core problem with Elite: Dangerous: the lack of balance. Just because it's been broken since release doesn't make it all right.

FD have been throwing half baked C&P at the game for some time now, but the "easy" and obvious solution that all other single world online multiplayer games use is boundaries. Ways of letting different playstyles interact in the same world without aggravation.

  • Aggravation for PvPers looking for a PvP environment
  • Aggravation for PvEers looking for a PvE environment
  • Aggravation for Solo players looking for an Off-line environment


The fact that the term "Mobius" has become de facto for a non-existant PvE mode should be one of FDs biggest concerns.
 
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That.

But then think : The day FDev aknowledge this and add an "Open coop mode", Regular Open becomes effectively a variant of CQC arena, only bigger and with FDL's.

That is : pretty much deserted...

I don't agree. I would love a dedicated PvP environment without the constant whining.
 
I don't agree. I would love a dedicated PvP environment without the constant whining.

Me too. But the population and ship variance in this mode will be tiny. And it could have a dozen system instead of 400B and work just as fine.

What I said before is not a negative. Au Contraire. It makes for an honest PvP environement without whining nor ganking.
 
I don't agree. I would love a dedicated PvP environment without the constant whining.

Yep the only downside would be FDEV admitting they should really have had it in from the start, as Mobius has proven.

Some edge cases would lose it because they are only interested in unwilling targets, but deliberately sticking it to people like that is a good move anyway.
 
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