No Single Player offline Mode then?

[Quietman]

In a way the enormity of making single player as rich as online multi which emulates as near as dammit the Milky way was obvious from the start if you think about it with a handful of DVD-ROMs, and would eventually be beyond the scope of a PC because it would outgrow your hard drive eventually wiiith ny new DLC/updates/patches when you DID manage to update it now and again. And even so, you could make the entire single player install - oh I dunno- 20GB in size, but it would always be stuck in aspic, AND conflict with the cloud/server side galaxies' events. It would be like running two parallel universes/galaxies

You are talking about technical issues that I am guessing you don't have a lot of experience with, (correct me if I am wrong).

The real point to be made here is that an offline mode is not impossible to achieve, not even close; it's a series of technical hurdles, balancing tradeoffs and resource/finance allocations dependent on how accurate and faithful FD want the offline experience to be compared to the online experience.

How do I know this, well it's what I do for a living, but much more importantly the FD developers apparently believed exactly the same thing up until a short time ago, hence the bomb drop a few weeks before release.

 

[Titus Balls]

There is no 'fixing' this issue. No offline mode. Full stop. See Michael's recent posts. I don't think any staff will be moved from current duties. Though they might need some forum mods for a few days.

See my subsequent reply.

 

[Dave Leestir]

The generation of the galaxy isn't the main issue (although it is part of it). The issue arises from the processes and data that changes as players interact with the world. The previous games were essentially static universes with some specific changes. For Elite: Dangerous aspects of the entire galaxy can be changes and there isn't an easy way to abstract that out. We were faced with a tough choice and it's not something we wanted to do, but to release a game that matched what we set out to do we had to go online online. I'd love to be able to make everyone happy but sometimes we have to make a hard choice as we have here.

Michael

Michael, thanks for explaining the problem clearly.

Rather than worrying about not being able to abstract out this functionality, I think it might be good to plan to release a cut down server for offline players to run alongside their clients.

The main work then would be in optimising for performance, obfuscating / securing the interfaces and data (via encryption and probable data + message re-structuring) and the production of cut-down yet still usable data sets. Of course the data can bear no relation to the online galaxy and that online data would never be touched by offline players.

Rather than saying "probably not", couldn't this type of approach perhaps be checked for feasibility and estimated?
It could be seen as a stretch goal or even an expansion.

Really hope something can be done for the significant minority who really want to play but won't be able to connect to the full online experience.

 

[Steve50]

I've been here debating on your mates behalf all night. The result is confirmation of no offline mode, and that software refunds are available. You can be annoyed all you want, and I didn't tell you otherwise.

I'm annoyed but he's going to be livid when he finds out and considering I was the one who told him he can play it offline at home, I'm likely to either be down one friend or get punched in the face. Either prospect isn't good. We should have been told this months ago, not 3 weeks from launch.

 

[Severian]

For me, one of the most important things is ED told me when I purchased the game that I could play the game offline. If you want to play against other players, more power to you, but that has no appeal for me. I've played MMORPG's for years starting with Ultima Online and for the last 10 years World of Warcraft and the one major factor that has spoilt these games for me from time to time is the PvP aspect of the games. I feel no urge to competitively enter into combat with anyone because; I have no desire to have my rear end handed to me on a plate by some kid, especially seeing as this game seems to be very labour orientated, it would be heartbreaking to have all ones work undone because some nasty, spiteful little griefer has got nothing better to do than make someone's life miserable. You know that happens in Online games, it will happen here. Do people want this game to become an EVE clone? Some probably will.... but I don't. It's all about personal choices, if you choose to PvP players in a game, then surely one should have the opposite choice for the sake of balance and fairness. In World of Warcraft, if you don't want to get involved with PVP, you have the chance to join a NON PvP server. Sadly, this seems not to be the case with ED, everyone might get thrown in to the same pot and the nastiest, most skilful players will succeed. All power to them, if that's what they want from their game, but I for one will not pay a penny of my money to be their whipping boy. So, I hope that the game gives me my refund I've asked for. And, if in the future they have a change of heart about Offline gaming, they can let me know and I'll gladly pay for the game again. Sadly, and I know that I'm no loss to anyone...... This game isn't for me..... BEFORE its even started

SOLO ONLINE IS STILL AN OPTION.

So many seem under the mistaken impression they are forced to play online with others.

 

[MINDWIPE]

this probably has already been said but as far i see this its real simple:

with the evolution of the game, the interaction of the universe by both all player and npc's the eventual additions being added to the game over time, possible surprises within the universe etc etc. can any single one of you tell me exactly HOW! you could make a totally "offline" option of the game and yet still be able to get all that upto date stuff and keep your commander synced (incase one ever chooses to play multiplayer), without occasionally popping online?

from what i can gather is that a totally offline version is impractical it would throw everything off balance when someone finally came online to the open universe part. they'd be out of sync it would in all likely foul up their current offlline game (wich you can guarenteee alot of players would be more peeved at trust me).

HOWEVER popping online once in a while to sync your data with the universe getting the latest patches etc isnt so bad.

there is NOTHING in that newsletter that says you cant play solo play offline NOTHING! it mearly says that "from time to time" you'll have to pop online.. to me that sounds like offline play with constant updates for your experience but to get them you'll need to play briefly (if only 2mins) online just to sync and update your game and vice versa with your data to the servers. the universe stays constant.. no drain on the servers everyones a winner!

i really dont understand the issue with this. with the exception of when the game has run its shelf life that could be an issue.. weeeeelllll not really because when and if that day ever comes the current glactic info can be given to the players at that point to form their own servers or play at that point as offline forever.. mind you that day is a loong time off.


anyhoo those are just my thoughts on it..

 

[SJT]

1) Michael has said they can get a refund.. but yes, the game is still in Beta and yesterdays announcement is no different from other Beta announcements (with the exception it's an unfortunate one)

That's fine. If he has stated categorically that anyone is entitled to a full, no-quibble refund then that point is pretty much sorted.

I'd still be interested in a response to my question as to when the decision was made to pull the offline mode. I'm sure it would be better for Frontier to give an answer here rather to a question shouted across a room full of game journalists on the 22nd.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

That's fine. If he has stated categorically that anyone is entitled to a full, no-quibble refund then that point is pretty much sorted.

I'd still be interested in a response to my question as to when the decision was made to pull the offline mode. I'm sure it would be better for Frontier to give an answer here rather to a question shouted across a room full of game journalists on the 22nd.

I suspect they will said they made decision in these two weeks. Will you believe them?

 

[Tim Wheatley]

I'm annoyed but he's going to be livid when he finds out and considering I was the one who told him he can play it offline at home, I'm likely to either be down one friend or get punched in the face. Either prospect isn't good. We should have been told this months ago, not 3 weeks from launch.

Yeah mine is less anger more upset, wanting to share the experience. No monetary loss really to note.

 

[-o-]

.... but we've had to make this decision to make the game we set out to do.

Michael

But the game 'we set out to do' had a documented offline version.

Thats why many of us backed it, and thats the problem. We supported what you set out to do, which is why you are getting such feedback.

 

[eeps]

wow this thread got moved for what reason?

 

[SuBSynk]

I'm annoyed but he's going to be livid when he finds out and considering I was the one who told him he can play it offline at home, I'm likely to either be down one friend or get punched in the face. Either prospect isn't good. We should have been told this months ago, not 3 weeks from launch.

So your friend spent £700 to upgrade his computer but cannot afford to buy a dongle to play online?...

 

[JiminyJickers]

That's fine. If he has stated categorically that anyone is entitled to a full, no-quibble refund then that point is pretty much sorted.

...

No he didn't, he just said you can apply for a refund. He, of course, never said that anyone would get one, just that you can apply.

Hopefully during business hours, my refund request for my pre-order Mercenary Edition will be honoured. But it is a wait and see at the moment.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

But the game 'we set out to do' had a documented offline version.

Thats why many of us backed it, and thats the problem. We supported what you set out to do, which is why you are getting such feedback.

They set out to do networking game, with offline version as a bonus. Offline version never got equal footing (heck, it never could hoped to get equal footing).

 

[iFred]

OK I've since seen Michael's post that there will probably not be a solo mode.

Beyond that, I can't really say any more than I'm disappointed too. That is a real shame for people who backed the game expecting this and wanting to play offline only. Some of my arguments against solo online mode were based on the fact we expected this too.

His flippant answers of "probably not" I can't really defend. FD really lack communications skills, bordering on the levels of corporate aspergers. Actually it's kind of made *ME* angry.

Regardless of this, I still want the game I paid for. If you are not getting the game you paid for, request a refund. Don't do a chargeback though, that's just a D-bag move regardless of the situation.

Check. Right.

 

[Tim Wheatley]

this probably has already been said but as far i see this its real simple:

with the evolution of the game, the interaction of the universe by both all player and npc's the eventual additions being added to the game over time, possible surprises within the universe etc etc. can any single one of you tell me exactly HOW! you could make a totally "offline" option of the game and yet still be able to get all that upto date stuff and keep your commander synced (incase one ever chooses to play multiplayer), without occasionally popping online?

from what i can gather is that a totally offline version is impractical it would throw everything off balance when someone finally came online to the open universe part. they'd be out of sync it would in all likely foul up their current offlline game (wich you can guarenteee alot of players would be more peeved at trust me).

HOWEVER popping online once in a while to sync your data with the universe getting the latest patches etc isnt so bad.

there is NOTHING in that newsletter that says you cant play solo play offline NOTHING! it mearly says that "from time to time" you'll have to pop online.. to me that sounds like offline play with constant updates for your experience but to get them you'll need to play briefly (if only 2mins) online just to sync and update your game and vice versa with your data to the servers. the universe stays constant.. no drain on the servers everyones a winner!

i really dont understand the issue with this. with the exception of when the game has run its shelf life that could be an issue.. weeeeelllll not really because when and if that day ever comes the current glactic info can be given to the players at that point to form their own servers or play at that point as offline forever.. mind you that day is a loong time off.


anyhoo those are just my thoughts on it..

No that's not what "time to time" means. WAY more than you're thinking.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

OK I've since seen Michael's post that there will probably not be a solo mode.

Beyond that, I can't really say any more than I'm disappointed too. That is a real shame for people who backed the game expecting this and wanting to play offline only. Some of my arguments against solo online mode were based on the fact we expected this too.

His flippant answers of "probably not" I can't really defend. FD really lack communications skills, bordering on the levels of corporate aspergers. Actually it's kind of made *ME* angry.

Regardless of this, I still want the game I paid for. If you are not getting the game you paid for, request a refund. Don't do a chargeback though, that's just a D-bag move regardless of the situation.

There *is* still going to be a solo-online mode.

However there is *not* going to be an offline mode.

 

[Wulfrune]

There's still a solo mode, it just requires you to have an internet connection.

I know that's no help to the people that need offline, just answering this particular users concerns.

I have a good connection. If, as you say there's a "Solo Mode" then I am more than happy with that. I pray that you're right.

 

[Iain M Norman]

I have a good connection. If, as you say there's a "Solo Mode" then I am more than happy with that. I pray that you're right.

We have it in the beta now.

 

[Juniper]

As a spokesperson, you get this kind of information from your developers and deliver bad news that actually often isn't your decision.

This is true, however, as Executive Producer it is Michael's job to ensure that every developer stays on track & is following the core spec... or is at least allowing for it to be followed down the line. Whilst perhaps not cutting code himself, he is extremely technically astute and understands the process of making software.

An offline mode is (was) a critical part of the core spec that the game was advertised & sold as.

From what Michael has said, they have treated offline as an afterthought that they thought they'd be able to shoehorn in, and then discovered way down the line that - no - they can't do it. Rather than design the game in such a way as to ensure that these things could be abstracted out, they've just ignored it.

Really, I find that inexcusable. And the off-hand way it has been communicated, and no apology, makes it even worse.