No Single Player offline Mode then?

[peter101cycle]

As far as I am concerned, FD could have handled this better.

BUT......

We've all contributed to what is a work-in-progress and good intentions at the start, don't always make it to the end. Various design decisions have been made to make the completely offline version impractical, whether it be for budget, technical or other reasons.

All the flaming at FD is a little unfortunate and tbh, I'd like to see the total numbers of users who were intending to play a completely offline game.

Personally, I'm not fussed as I never thought I would play completely offline but I can understand some of the upset it's caused others.

 

[Kaltern]

I'm not aware of any procedural generation engines that can generate even a solar system fast enough using similar methods as stellar forge(based on the limited description by FD so it could be simpler that I think )

Elite: Frontier?
Limit Theory?

 

[mnemon]

150 pages in less than 24 hours is a vocal minority? lol

There are also members of the hypothetical vocal majority arguing with the minority

 

[Kicks]

Which I would be very surprised if it weren't dependent on the number of players.

Frankly, I find it very hard to believe that the server running on a regular PC couldn't handle the amount of data generated by a single player (and probably even a small coop party for LAN play) and still leave room for the client to run.

But what about what all the other NPCs/factions are doing? It's not just about the player. It's about everything in a populated universe.

A server can happily do these calculations and simulate it without breaking a sweat.

Your local PC? Not so much...


Honestly, I think FD have realised that to deliver what they want to, it just doesn't make sense as a self-install/offline edition. Maybe that will change in the future.

But it sure as hell isn't about DRM.

 

[srinidhalaya]

Other online only games bring in cosmetic items for a small fee that rake them in tons of money. ED has that slightly with the ship skins. I wouldn't mind having more ship skins added, I haven't bought any yet, but I've also been too lazy to check them out. Paying for cosmetic items is the best way to fund servers. Its completely optional for players and given at a low price it doesn't scare anyone away if they really enjoy the design. warfare and planetside 2 is mainly cosmetic purchases and I see almost every player with a cosmetic item on. Even in Cs: go, most players buy skins for their weapons. Some of those skins go for hundreds of dollars and valve gets a small cut for them, not intrusive at all. There are ways to fund servers.

Yes there is, but its not too much to ask what exactly that funding model is. Obviously they changed their mind on offline mode, because it "couldn't be done". Well, what if skins and expansions cant support the game funding wise? How will you feel if they decided to go to something a bit more intrusive on your wallet? Their current policy on releasing information is, if it hasn't been asked, don't answer. So we are asking. They don't seem to be answering, which is very concerning.

 

[mnemon]

Elite: Frontier?
Limit Theory?

The first one definitely wasn't using the same method.

I wasn't saying that procedurally generating a solar system is impossible(because it's trivial), I was saying that the approach used by FD in ED seems to be pretty heavy.

 

[tomba4]

But what about what all the other NPCs/factions are doing? It's not just about the player. It's about everything in a populated universe.

A server can happily do these calculations and simulate it without breaking a sweat.

Your local PC? Not so much...

I'm pretty sure your phone could do that. Don't underestimate current technology.

 

[mbpoblet]

My argument stands firm because all Solo/online is, is the same as anyone elses' except they don't get matched with other players, just NPCs. Their contributions to the universe are just as forceful as those who play "Open". Once again, not DRM. It's an online experience with a rule that says the matchmaker prefers you on your own. That's it.

It doesn't need to be, though. Single player shouldn't be online, or should have the option not to be. This is the same excuse EA used to justify their SimCity nonsense, so that you could "interact with your neighbours"... if I cared about interacting with my ' neighbours I wouldn't be playing single player in the first place. It's an intentionally broken design.

 

[Bad_Wolf]

150 pages in less than 24 hours is a vocal minority? lol

Yes. Especially when you filter it down to the same 50-75 people who keep posting over and over and over....
If you don't have reliable internet access you shouldn't be gaming on a PC anyway. Deal with it. Grow the hell up, move on. If this is the worst betrayal since Judas stole your jelly beans then I suggest following the established refund policy. If not, then pull up your freakin diapers and go to your room.

It's.... A.... GAME.

If you couldn't afford to lose the money gambling on a kickstarter campaign then you should really adjust your priorities. It is, what it is.

 

[Zephyriel]

I've sunk about 130 hours playing ED since beta 1, and so have many people here. And that's in a tiny bubble compared to the size of the whole galaxy. I guess that means we can live with a static universe in an offline mode, that would give us the whole galaxy, and we could have a lot of fun in it for many hours.

If it doesn't fit FD's vision of what the game with its dynamic universe should be and they're afraid this limited mode would get bad press, then they could just work on the offline mode a few months later when the reviews have all been released and everyone's had a chance to make their own opinion.

 

[Elmasri]

150 pages in less than 24 hours is a vocal minority? lol

Well, by definition, yes. Around 2500 users online on the forums. 140,000 backers. 2500 is a minority, even if we assume that all 2500 are upset. Personally, I am loving the game. The removal of the offline component, I understand for those who cannot play online (no reliable internet etc.) it is a problem.

For me, not so much. I am happy to wait and see how it all develops. At this point all we have is wild speculation on both sides, with Michael and Ed from FD trying to make points, but it all being lost in the noise.

 

[Kicks]

MMOs are engineered from the ground up to deal with many simultaneous players; right now, managing to see a couple of your friends in the same instance feels like an achievement.

There is a significant challenge between the traditional MMO and the P2P model that FD have chosen. I've suffered from this model myself (please see Pizza-Bet-Thread ), but I believe it can be surmounted. Note that classical MMOs that are client/server suffer far more depending where you live... there's a tradeoff at the end of the day.

Having friends in the same instance is something they need to sort out. Whilst some are saying that the lack of "Offline" will kill the game, for me, the lack of being able to hook up with a friend and go do stuff together, will kill the game for me.

Horses for courses, huh?

 

[Titus Balls]

150 pages in less than 24 hours is a vocal minority? lol

I and a few others have contributed to those 150, who understand why Frontier are dropping offline mode. Many like myself also agree that it could have been communicated better.

It might be 150 pages in, but that's because like time - this thread is a circle.

 

[TomFoolious]

Yes there is, but its not too much to ask what exactly that funding model is. Obviously they changed their mind on offline mode, because it "couldn't be done". Well, what if skins and expansions cant support the game funding wise? How will you feel if they decided to go to something a bit more intrusive on your wallet? Their current policy on releasing information is, if it hasn't been asked, don't answer. So we are asking.

Well you know what bring on the subscriptions Frontier! I love the game you currently have here and I will be more than willing to pay a subscription for this game. Does that answer your question? I don't even play this game everyday either, 2 or 3 tomes a week, but I'm more than happy with what is here currently.

 

[Kaltern]

The first one definitely wasn't using the same method.

I wasn't saying that procedurally generating a solar system is impossible

Yes, yes you were

Originally Posted by mnemon
I'm not aware of any procedural generation engines that can generate even a solar system fast enough using similar methods as stellar forge.

From Wiki:

Frontier: Elite II was published on a single floppy disk. For the Amiga version, this is a single 880 KB disk (disk 2 was only a selection of interesting saved games), and for the PC/DOS platform a 720 KB double density floppy. For the Amiga version, the actual executable file was only around 400 KB (uncompressed), its small size partly due to the entire game being written in assembly language while its universe was mostly procedurally generated.

Can you, Kicks, and other 'experts' stop pretending you know stuff when you clearly don't?

 

[Titus Balls]

There are also members of the hypothetical vocal majority arguing with the minority

Forum threads like this are vocal minorities on both sides - most people just want to play the damn game that's given to them.

 

[mbpoblet]

I'm not aware of any procedural generation engines that can generate even a solar system fast enough using similar methods as stellar forge(based on the limited description by FD so it could be simpler that I think )

http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceengine/top/

Enjoy.

 

[Kicks]

I'm pretty sure your phone could do that. Don't underestimate current technology.

Voyager 1 entered interstellar space in August 2012, nearly 35 years after blasting off, scientists announced Thursday (Sept. 12). As it leaves our solar system behind, the robotic spacecraft is streaking toward an encounter with a star called AC +79 3888, which lies 17.6 light-years from Earth

I still can't get a signal on my Android in the bloody bathroom!

 

[TheNut]

I'm not overly concerned about offline gameplay. It's certainly a nice-to-have feature, but I knew the minute I jumped into the beta there would be no offline support. The fact that you need to login before launching the game was a dead give-away. You can't even get into the menu or tutorials without being online. Architecturally, they definitely designed this game for online-only from day 1.

And I know some of you backed ED for that offline support and it's aggravating to feel boxed in and forced into something you didn't want. I certainly hope that FD learned a valuable lesson here too. That their people skills are really lacking and this situation could have been better handled by maintaining consistent, on-the-level communication with your customers and diffusing a situation before it goes nuclear. I know it's easy to stay glued to your monitor screens and develop develop develop, but it's important for you to get out there and make yourself known in the community. Things like that 2 day server outage with no communication prior to the 3.05 beta update cannot happen when you go retail. You need to be much better than that, especially now that it's official you're going all-out online. Come December 16, you only have 1 chance to impress and we want you to succeed. However, we can only do so much to help you guys, the ball is in your court.

And you know, on the bright side there are alternative space sims out there that offer offline play and are also currently more feature rich. X3 is very content rich and has modding support. Starpoint Gemini 2 is an excellent open world indie space game that has similarities to Freelancer. Still a bit limited, but quite engaging and fun. And of course there's Star Citizen, which claims to support private servers and modding (among many other claims). So it's not worth getting worked up over this issue. The damage was certainly done, but now comes the recovery and time to move on. The space sim genre hasn't come to a crashing halt, there's alternatives out there.

 

[Jeverest]

156 pages?

I like turtles.