No Single Player offline Mode then?

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See, now, this is where I take umbrage in these discussions.

I am not personally affected by the online/offline point. I'm always online. But I understand those who are (I've been in that position before). And, it was promised as part of the KS FAQ, as part of videos, and forum posts from the staff. I've also read Michael's reasons for the change, and I do understand them (since I work in the industry).

However, this was not "a simple decision". This was not "decided just recently". There is simply no way a competent developer could not see this being infeasible months out. None. You make structural design changes, you obfuscate things necessary to running the client, and you make design decisions which are specifically counter to the offline mode. This wasn't "patched in at beta 3". This was part of key design decisions.

Now, if Fdev were incompetent developers, I'd understand. Someone "whoops" committed branch to master and now they are stuck with it. Rolling the change back would require another 4-6 days of backbreaking work for a team of 20 guys to fix the entire system. Ouch. Then a few weeks to figure out how to communicate this to the clients.

Problem I see is, they aren't incompetent developers. Maybe someone didn't get the memo, or whatever - I'm not saying they had secret agendas and whatnot. But Michael's posts were pretty clear and seemed like he was fully aware of the design, and this would have been a known issue as of Beta 1, perhaps Beta 2.

Even though this has zero effect on my enjoyment of the game, and I have zero stake in this, I feel for the people who read the KS page or even the FAQ here (which I did before purchasing Beta access) and it was very clear that there was offline functionality (albeit limited). I can't imagine the ire of the guys who were told that during the KS and pledged a few hundred dollars to see the game succeed, or even thousands. This wasn't vague, this wasn't "we hope to", it was stated as fact in the several places I read it.

Additionally, if the "offline people" are "the minority", then some of the people defending the decision here are hypocrites. Back on page 83 of this thread, one of the white knights was stating in one post that this affected very few people, and then three posts later stated he was afraid they would all refund and hurt the game release. That's just straight double-talk - "not enough affected to make a difference" and "doesn't want the refunds to impact the game".

I'm not screaming that I never will support them again, or ragequitting, or refunding. I love the game, and will play it for quite a while, I'm sure. I don't, however, support bad development practices. And this is certainly a doozy.

This was a bad, bad move. You don't pull this at zero hour with your clients and announce it hidden in a newsletter. And the people defending this are simply white knighting that which isn't excusable. This wasn't something designed and whoops, zero hour, we can't add bobbleheads and Christmas lights in the cockpit, sorry. This was a base design decision, and as a developer, I empathize with the why, but it should have been communicated much, much earlier.

At this point, they need to deliver what they promised - even if after launch. And if they "can't", figure it out. Don't just say "we're not going to". That's what starts this type of furor, and it really needs to stop as a practice in game development. The design decisions, not the players affected, are what is wrong here. If offline was pushed as a feature back to Mac release, or July, you'd see some grumbles. But straight out cancelling a promised feature...

EDIT: I've read a few more of Michael's posts that I missed in the 15 or so pages that happened since I read this thread, and I see more about how they were dealing with the feature. Got it. And I've been in that position with clients, personally. So, I'm a little less "bad development practices" and a bit more "this should have been discussed with the customers earlier, when it became a problem". He makes replies I have had to do in development as well, and he's trying to be forthright, and I respect that. The path on this makes more sense. It should, however, have been brought up as a discussion point much, much earlier.

And doing it this close to launch, though... that's certainly worthy of most of the negative posts.

Well put, some rep for you.
 
disclaimer: posting while drunk, read at your own risk

Dang, all this give-me-refund-because-not-offline stuff is making me want to buy even more ship paintjobs. Might get a bit expensive, this. :eek:

But hey, I'm going to party like it's 2014 (not 1993, when offline was still a "thing"). :D
 
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I bear no ill-will towards FD for this change, but my £300 included rewards that are no longer part of what is to be delivered. That is just fact.

Well unless you haven't been playing the Alpha or Beta at all then you cannot claim that , as that's what you paid your £300 for (amongst other things).

In the end if you feel you are owed a refund then fine, you are entitled to try and get one, at the most though you should get back the retail cost of the game, nothing more. As stated in a previous response nobody forced you to pay £300 for the game, and if you have been playing Alpha and Beta you have got EXACTLY what you have been paying for.
 
It's stupid of the devs to break their promises. That should have been obvious to everybody. It's simply an unprofessional way to treat your customers, who were willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and donated money to support the project.

No server = no Elite. Will I be able to play this game in the future like I can play the old Elites on DosBox? I won't, if everything requires a constant connection to a server.
 
Well unless you haven't been playing the Alpha or Beta at all then you cannot claim that , as that's what you paid your £300 for (amongst other things).

In the end if you feel you are owed a refund then fine, you are entitled to try and get one, at the most though you should get back the retail cost of the game, nothing more. As stated in a previous response nobody forced you to pay £300 for the game, and if you have been playing Alpha and Beta you have got EXACTLY what you have been paying for.
I have tested the game when I could. I was hoping to be able to play it upon release. Now I cannot unless I am on-line. I will not argue about the description of what I bought as google can provide that. Off-line DRM free was part of the description. MB has said they tried but couldn't do it.

I suppose this is the crux of the argument isn't it?
People do not feel that Frontier spending a year trying to implement it was not enough effort.

I applaud FD efforts. I also totally respect their prioritising making the game they want to make. I will not be asking for a refund even though my DRM-free off-line copy of the game is now not delivered. Hopefully I will get to play it some. I wanted to have something to play when I can't get on-line, which is often, but I can always play original Elite on an emulator which I already do.
I have enjoyed being on the DDF and testing the game when I could. I have not been scammed, but I will not be getting the game I wanted either.
I have stated before that I already got 3 decades of enjoyment out of the original Elite. I wanted decades of enjoyment out of Elite dangerous but what I will get is some play when I can get on-line. The reason this is no good is that Elite requires a lot of time invested to be worthwhile for me. I cannot justify investing that time based on a game that is tethered to a server I have no control over.
Oh well - that's life.
Guess I will have to be happy anyway. But I do hope FD refund those who ask for it. They really should I believe.
 
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I suppose this is the crux of the argument isn't it?
People do not feel that Frontier spending a year trying to implement it was not enough effort.

Time is not a measure of resource. Man-hours is. We don't know what resource was spent on offline.
 
I have highlighted a part of that reference. Nearly 2 years of project development would be seen anywhere as a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill which seems to be the main thrust of most peoples complaints.

Maybe you should have highlighted the word "hope" there more.

Reading the whole paragraph helps to understand the clause.

Yeah, they HOPE. But I will use it.
 
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Well, all this pro for online only is fine and nice, but how mentioned, there are a lot of peoples wanting a offline solo game aswell. If this would make cheating and piracing [And they even promised a DRM free version!] possible, then Frontier would have to find another way to prevent this on their server. But again it was mentioned and promised, that there will be a offline single player mode on kickstarter and only because the backer, who pledged becasue they relied on the infos they got there, the game even got the money and Frontier was able to start developing it. Changing this now and cutting features, who where and are still in the Kickstarter FAQ list is a clear fraud. And yes, i would see it as good reason the cancel the pledge.

Then everybody could make a Kickstarter and promising the world out of it and cutting all features after they got their money, or even do something complete different. And at least i want what i pledged for. One of the reason i even plege for games, etc. is the features list and the discriptions of the shown project. I have nothing against, that a feature is cut or added, but then it shouldn't be on the Kickstarter page at all. Or titled with "It might be possible but it isn't a feature we can promise." and not "However it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server."

Yes i want the feature badly, and it was one of the reason i peldged on a higher tier, because i saw the game as epic because aswell of the offline reason. But i don't think this is as important as, that it was an feature promised in the Kickstarter campain. And i still think, that promised features should be on the top of the feature list.
 
Isn't this only "affecting" a small handful of people with wonky internet connections?

I can't see what the big difference between playing Online Solo and Offline is.

Granted, having the game to be online requires a server to play on, and if Frontier ever decides to cut the server, then we'll be without a game. This won't happen in any foreseeable future though.

So: If your internet connection is ok and working, why is the removal of offline such a big deal? I really don't get it.

I myself planned play Offline when I pledged, then I decided to go Solo Online (to get the advantage of being all by myself, and having a dynamic galaxy).

Also, to what degree is the game required to be online? The newsletter is clearly states:
Galaxy, story, missions, have to match, and it does mean the single player has to connect to the server from time to time, but this has the added advantage that everyone can participate in the activities that can happen in the galaxy.

To me this doesn't mean that the game needs to be connected to the server continously, but only "calls home" every so often. I absolutely despise any form of vs. multiplayer/PvP, and if Solo mode (or the PvE group which I will try out) doesn't get me 100% no PvP, I'm not playing.
 
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NOT EVERY ONE HAS A PERMANANT OR RELIABLE INERTNET CONNECTION SO OFFLINE ON INTERNET WAS A REQUIRED AND STATED OPTION

And this will be the ONE and ONLY valid reason for having offline mode.

But if during the development FD is not able to implement it we have to deal with it. Especially if it means they have to dumb down the whole game to be able to implement an offline mode.
 
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In Limit Theory there is one guy and the project was started near the same time as ED.

He can and will ship an offline game.

FD with their very many developers say they cannot.

I simply believe that they can, perhaps a few months down the line, but certainly they can, so do not believe the "Its too impracticable" or "It will destroy the online version" arguments.
 
Isn't this only "affecting" a small handful of people with wonky internet connections?

I can't see what the big difference between playing Online Solo and Offline is.

Yes, which would actually be the majority of the world population. Certainly not the majority of the video gaming population, I'll give you that. :)

The difference? An internet connection.
 
You will see it once they shut the servers off because they want to sell you a newer game.

Paranoia and hyperbole. How is that different from any other online game? Braben wants to make Elite the culmination of his career, and has said he has no interest in making another Elite game, he just wants to keep improving this one for a decade or more.

If that is not enough for you, take your ball and go home.

This must be the most annoying and tiresome thread on this forum to date >.<
 
Isn't this only "affecting" a small handful of people with wonky internet connections?

I can't see what the big difference between playing Online Solo and Offline is.

Granted, having the game to be online requires a server to play on, and if Frontier ever decides to cut the server, then we'll be without a game. This won't happen in any foreseeable future though.

So: If your internet connection is ok and working, why is the removal of offline such a big deal? I really don't get it.

I myself planned play Offline when I pledged, then I decided to go Solo Online (to get the advantage of being all by myself, and having a dynamic galaxy).

Also, to what degree is the game required to be online? The newsletter is clearly states:


To me this doesn't mean that the game needs to be connected to the server continously, but only "calls home" every so often. I absolutely despise any form of vs. multiplayer/PvP, and if Solo mode (or the PvE group which I will try out) doesn't get me 100% no PvP, I'm not playing.

MB has said that an every so often connection is not what will be happening.

Single player online does require a consistent connection.

Michael
 
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