Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Between COD:IW and the upcoming Starfield, there was another interim game that led Roberts to scope-creep-again: Star Wars Squadrons.
Really nice in VR too 😁 Any sign of that in SC yet?
Ja, zero-g action has been something I've been looking out for the last decade. I guess it probably isn't gonna happen soon.

You should have tried Hellion when it was about...for zero-G, there was simply nothing like it. Absolutely awesome...and terrifying :eek:
Shattered Horizon was great zero-G action back in 2009 but only about 12 people had computers good enough to run it 😅
I still flash it up on occasion because it has decent bots and there’s nothing quite like it - until Boundary makes it out this year:
Source: https://youtu.be/pzJ6tzyg02k
 
So much people here thinking SQ42 will never release or will be crap or passable.
The thing is, we are probably all (or mostly) big fans of space games here, or we wouldnt be on this forum to start with. So a potential SQ42 would be sitting squarely in our shopping list if it existed at all. I dont think anyone thinks it will be "crap or passable" as one should only judge a released product, not vaporware..
But here's the catch. Since the time CRoberts started the development of his magnum opus, other studios have had the time to develop entirely new bespoke engines, and even progress across 2 generations (following the example of UE from Epic, but of course Decima Engine and others have come through as well), VR has not only appeared in modern form but also moved 2 generations, so did consoles... And from what we see from CiG we're just at the beginning ! So at each generational change, he's missing the target entirely, and has to start over his entire project by refactoring absolutely everything, spending tens of millions of $$ every time. He's chasing a target that he's been missing over and over again. His engine was just barely outdated when he started, now it's showing a lot of signs of age, compared for example to what UE5 can deliver (and dont start me on the actual technical capacities of UE5 vs the old CE that is still used at the core of Star Citizen). He's reached complete dead ends with that engine on several aspects a long time ago, and his project has made zero progress on these aspects as a result.
As a result, he probably knows his project cannot suffer the comparison to actual released products. Decima Engine showed how to make nature and characters looks realistic, and the new wave of UE5 games is redefining what is considered "good" computer graphics. He's now 2 generations behind and he knows it. As you said yourself, he wont release a product he considers sub par. That means unless he switches to a modern engine, he's stuck and will never release it. That's why people say "never release" because that's the more likely option.

In your opinion, what are the chance that SQ42 could be a really good game at release ?
Really, no one knows. No one has ever seen even the slightest hint of gameplay. What we've seen are pre-rendered or predefined-path 3D animations that are NOT a game, but just machinima. You know, like that "sandworm demo" for SC that was shown, 6 years ago ? (cant remember). There's nothing behind these demos. Besides they have not aged well at all. The quality of characters and motion capture doesnt hold anymore compared to anything else that's being released these years, even compared to UE4 games (not even UE5). Will the game look like a Wing Commander episode ? A lot of us would like it, as long as space combat is enjoyable (which has been a tall order since Freespace & Freespace 2 kinda dominated the genre - and of course there's ED VR that has brought a completely new perspective on that too).
In any case, if he decides to release his project in whatever state it is at the time, it will be under the scrutiny as a half billion $$, 10+ years project. I know of another project that has been under that kind of scrutiny with that kind of budget, that was Rings of Power, and the result is terrible. Duke Nukem Forever was aptly named but also a complete dud. In the mean times, studios 10 times smaller released multiple AAA games that are actually fantastic, I could name a lot of em, like From Software genius "twitch combat+RPG" games to the whole Tomb Raider new trilogy and multiple Bethesda games lol (and they are known for long dev times !) or two Horizon Zero Dawn games and the list is endless really, in 10 years of gaming we've seen a lot of really good stuff (and 2023 is the year of KSP 2!).
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
So much this. As others have pointed out it was "or, now CoD:IW" in 2016, a game which, hilariously, is still more polished and playable than anything CIG has shown, let alone delivered. Soon it will be Starfield that triggers another ground-up "refactor." A couple more years and it'll be something else. There's a certain pace CIG needs to maintain to stay relevant, and they're way below it. But they make money all the same, and it's clear Roberts has long since lost interest in making the games.

CIG could have made a straightforward, updated take on Wing Commander in a reasonable timeframe (say, 3-4 years) and it would have checked the boxes and given them both credibility as a developer and a base on which to build sequels with incrementally more advanced features. Instead, for no real reason other than Roberts' ego, they decided version 1 had to be the BDSSE, and they doomed themselves to failure.
You are giving CIG way too much credit. I do not think SQ42, or SC, are being delayed because of refactors based on Chris Roberts seeing new games coming up. At all.

I believe CIG was, and is, simply incapable and incompetent even to deliver what was promised for 2014 at the original kickstarter. The record funding at the time (and ever since) was simply a great excuse to rationalize, with scope change/growth, that inability to deliver. Remember the sorry state in which we got Arena Commander back in... 2014? (never mind the actual PU with 100 systems and SQ42). Well, that was way before the infamous, but extremely convenient, "pupil to planet" at the end of 2015 that supposedly changed the scope dramatically.

That is what we call in Spanish "huida hacia delante" (escaping forwards). Not sure if it has a direct translation in English but... here.
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
So much people here thinking SQ42 will never release or will be crap or passable.
Don´t you think that is a reasonable assessment based on CIG track record, the current extremely poor state of the PU after 11+ years of development and 500+ millions wasted spent in it? There are obviously many exceptions but often past performance is simply the best predictor of future performance.

Let me turn the question back to you: Given the poor performance and non delivery after 11+ years with record money spent, what makes you believe SQ42 will be good?
 
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My optimistico-realistic guess on SQ42:

  • Eventually released
  • Technical issues but largely playable
  • Pretty art, bland to mediocre level design
  • Cringey script so bad it's good
  • But too many dialogues and cutscenes

All in all, passable (given The Perfectionist's ambitions) but enjoyable (when we're given the opportunity to play and not passively watch/walk/fly through corridors)
 
Don´t you think that is a reasonable assessment based on CIG track record, the current extremely poor state of the PU after 11+ years of development and 500+ millions wasted spent in it? Often past performance is simply the best predictor of future performance.
Not to mention Chris Roberts long history of… creative interpretations about the state of this project, starting right from the Kickstarter. Of course, for me what really reveals Roberts motivations regarding his “magnum opus” is the shell company shuffle he’s been doing since this project began. Nothing screams “Hollywood Accounting” like 20+ continually renamed companies, each being paid by the others for their services, to the point of being able to pay dividends to shareholders (aka the Roberts Clan, plus Calders) due to record “profits.”

From a crowd funded game that is eight years late delivering what was promised, and is further from release than it was in 2012.
 
View attachment 340304

Do people really still believe that not having a publisher is better ??
Publishers just leech off the hard work of others. They'd probably just end up paying themselves massive dividends instead of leaving that money in the business to develop the game

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Yeah I remember a 'dog ate my homework' Chris letter saying AC release was delayed (again) because He wanted it to be up to His standards of quality and stability. Lol.
ChrisRoberts said:
It would be foolish to release an unstable build, even if pre-alpha for the sake of meeting an internal deadline. This is the power of the crowdfunding that made Star Citizen possible: a publisher would make us ship tomorrow regardless of the current build quality… but as you are all focused on quality rather than a financial return for shareholders we are able to take a few more days to deliver something that is stable.

I know that’s not the news you wanted to hear tonight. No-one would like to see the community get their hands on Arena Commander more than I would.
 
So much people here thinking SQ42 will never release or will be crap or passable.
In your opinion, what are the chance that SQ42 could be a really good game at release ?
I imagine it'll be a bit like when Duke Nukem Forever eventually released. It was panned by the press because it was so out of date. It ended up in the bargain bins where I picked it up for pennies. At that price I thought it was great. I'm not sure how I'd have felt about it if I had to pay full price tho

Squadron 42 is done by the same bloke who did Wing Commander, and I loved the cheezy plot in that. He's got big names to deliver his cheeze so I'm thinking it'll be fun to play

...but I am going to wait to see if it ends up in the bargain bins. I've waited a decade to play the game, several more years isn't going to make much difference
 
So much people here thinking SQ42 will never release or will be crap or passable.
In your opinion, what are the chance that SQ42 could be a really good game at release ?
Main issue for me is no matter how good it is it won't be able to escape the fact that it took 12 years (or more) to develop and hundreds of millions more than expected. For that amount of time, money and work it would have to be the best game ever made to redeem itself.

Going on CIG's work to date I think it'll be really quite average, like 6/10 average. It'll look nice but everything else will let it down.
 
They've kept SQ42 hidden either because they don't want spoilers released or because it looks terrible. I'm not sure which. ;)
I know you joke but we also know which one it is. If they were able to record over an hour of people talking about an unfinished space radar level in SQ42, they could easily show a space battle or something without spoilers. Of course assuming the game exists.
 
Between COD:IW and the upcoming Starfield, there was another interim game that led Roberts to scope-creep-again: Star Wars Squadrons.
...
It seems almost as if he's playing 'Space-Game Tetris', where each new game/film/TV episode is a fresh block of must-have unobtainium that needs somehow to be shoehorned into the unstable hotchpotch that has been built so far. Only, with more fidels than has ever been done before.
 
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