Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[cigwatch]

A little gift for you

View attachment 356883

Look, I am not trying to diminish what you are doing, this is not a dong measuring contest. I am sure your services have value to people who are paying you and even a simple database can be used to extract craploads of interesting insights. "Complex" does not mean "more valuable", after all. However, what you have shown is a rather simple relational schema for, what I can assume, is an HR department, or something similar.

Anyway, this is not what we are talking about when we discuss CI, at least looking at what they have been claiming. We are talking about several layers of software, a self-authored, distributed system communicating over unreliable network, with a graph database at the core and message queues transferring information about requested transactions between game servers and the core DB.

This is not what would be sensible to replicate 1:1 on a single machine, in particular when there is no reason. Just like nobody sane would use a fully blown DB for storing local application state. They would go for an in-process solution like, idk, SQLite. Or just dump the state to a save file directly, since there is no issue if a single player game "pauses" for some time while it is saving. You can test it in plenty of games with on-demand quick-save. Spam it and the game starts stuttering.

 

[StuartGT]

I was smart and waited until right before 3.0 came out in 2017. Once they had planetary landings down the game would be done in no time. No way it would still be in alpha years later.

I wasn't as smart as you

 

[Viajero]

It's the more probable option in fact.
If CIG think it has enough funding till the sale of SQ42, they will remove the product at $45 and wait for the release to sell it at max price

Why would they remove it and lose any sales at all though? They can even use your "next commercial step" to their advantage as they have done countless times with ship pricing: Buy now cheap since soon(tm) it will be releasing at full price!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

This guy in the internetz says SC is not fun therefore it must be absolute truth:

It's not fun. - Star Citizen Spectrum

It's not just the respawn timers. It's waiting to get to the train. It's waiting on the train. It's waiting to get to somewhere I can buy armor. It's waiting to get somewhere I can buy weapons and...

robertsspaceindustries.com

Im glad CIG is making the game they want and not some individuals in this forum, as my take on what kind of game I want on a fundamental level aligns with how CIG is making it, in most cases.

I'm sure he is glad, but fails to see the problem, and its to do with demographics. Most people don't want immersion timers. Look at the complaints about travel time in ED.

CIG don't advertise it as a waiting game, they advertise it as an action packed thrilling game, and that's what most people buy into expecting.

If CIG's marketing was 100% honest about the game they are wanting to make, funding would collapse overnight, and those who are glad CIG are making the game they want, would soon find themselves without a game at all, not even a buggy alpha.

I may be thinking of the wrong game, but wasn't it Hellion which started out being way too realistic, and after one of the early releases, based on the feedback they got, they cut back on the realism?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The mission disk just shows how SC hasn't aged well at all.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Posted by @GreySix over on Spectrum...

 

[sovapid]

I'm sure he is glad, but fails to see the problem, and its to do with demographics. Most people don't want immersion timers. Look at the complaints about travel time in ED.

The more comparable thing in ED is the ship and parts transfer timer between stations. It was very popular on the forums. In fact I'd bet a bunch of you were in favor of them.

 

[sovapid]

In fact, the arguments for them are nearly identical. Just go do something else while the timer is running down.

 

[Factabulous]

I wasn't on the forums when ship / module timers were added (I think), so not sure I would have voted for it. I think they're ok - you always have a ship so you do have options. if they were instant - wouldn't bother me. Isn't the issue in SC that you end up with no ship so you are a bit stuffed? And all because ppl are salvaging their own ships for $$$ - weirdos

Could say the SC complaints are overblown - I have a Fleet Carrier that has a 98H xfer time, that does feel excessive

Both games are a bit weird about travel - I've suggested a few times that there should be more happening in supercruise (like Rebel Galaxy Outlaw etc with stuff happening all the time), make it feel alive. ofc that doesn't work as well for SC as it's expected you should be wandering around enjoying the immersive ship interiors while flying

 

[LittleAnt]

However, what you have shown is a rather simple relational schema for, what I can assume, is an HR department, or something similar.

It's a financial analysis software with 800 fields in DB and millions records. What I've shown is a tiny part of the structure.

Anyway, this is not what we are talking about when we discuss CI, at least looking at what they have been claiming. We are talking about several layers of software, a self-authored, distributed system communicating over unreliable network, with a graph database at the core and message queues transferring information about requested transactions between game servers and the core DB.

This is not what would be sensible to replicate 1:1 on a single machine, in particular when there is no reason. Just like nobody sane would use a fully blown DB for storing local application state. They would go for an in-process solution like, idk, SQLite. Or just dump the state to a save file directly, since there is no issue if a single player game "pauses" for some time while it is saving. You can test it in plenty of games with on-demand quick-save. Spam it and the game starts stuttering.

A lot of words to say the same thing I said. Nobody with a minimum tech knowledge will say that SQ42 will use the same DB system than SC. So you just said the same thing than me, SC performances can't be used to estimate in advance SQ42 performances.

 

[ECity]

Imagine if Frontier stopped selling ED a week ago, with no comment about it whatsoever.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The more comparable thing in ED is the ship and parts transfer timer between stations. It was very popular on the forums. In fact I'd bet a bunch of you were in favor of them.

I was totally in favour of them. I was also in favour of the ability to send ships ahead with a timer. And i like the travel times as well. But it doesn't mean that i'm any different to those guys, wanting what I like and happy when the devs do what I like, even when its against what the majority might want.

FD have also done a lot of stuff i don't like.

Difference here is, FD mainly funded the game from their own pocket to launch it. CIG are dependent on the good graces of backers.

 

[LittleAnt]

Why would they remove it and lose any sales at all though? They can even use your "next commercial step" to their advantage as they have done countless times with ship pricing: Buy now cheap since soon(tm) it will be releasing at full price!

Why loosing these sales ? When you buy SQ42 45$ before release, you'll not buy it at 70$ when released. CIG think they will have a good product and it will sell well to space game fans. So they remove the 'cheap' sale now.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

In fact, the arguments for them are nearly identical. Just go do something else while the timer is running down.

Depends on what it is and what your options are. On a station and you only have 1 ship available to call.... what should you do? Go stand in the corner and think about your life choices?

 

[VR Golgot]

Nobody with a minimum tech knowledge will say that SQ42 will use the same DB system than SC.

And yet...

Following on from Persistent Entity Streaming (PES), the SQ42 Feature team began implementing the save/load system. Because PES stores the state of all entities in the universe, the team can utilize it to save progress. They’re currently in the first stages of testing saving and reloading, ensuring everything restores correctly.

 

[LittleAnt]

Depends on what it is and what your options are. On a station and you only have 1 ship available to call.... what should you do? Go stand in the corner and think about your life choices?

Just buy a cheap ship to use while you wait if you only have one big ship (but almost nobody has only one big ship). An aurora ES is 124k to buy.

 

[Ed02349]

And yet...

One databse to rule them all.

Reading that, the Narrative team is the most baffling. 10 years to write naratives for a single player game? How did they get to Chapter 11 when the team writing the story is still reviewing everything and hadn't locked anything down. Watching Chris Roberts develop a game in real time is...

 

[LittleAnt]

And yet...

I repeat, it will not be the same database. A lot of components/flows/systems can be shared but a significant percentage of the system will differ. Having a version of PES in SQ42 doesn't mean that the DB of SQ42 is the same as the DB of SC.

 

[thistle]

.
Difference here is, FD mainly funded the game from their own pocket to launch it. CIG are dependent on the good graces of backers.

Yup, it's the core problem with SC, selling a dream on a vague promise it will eventually launch. And all their dreams will be realised.

If something is always just "in development" they never have to launch and there is none of the scrutiny a launched product demands.

 

[thistle]

And yet...

What's the betting SQ404 is just a series of distinct unconnected test 'levels' in their cursed cryengine branch, with absolutely no integration as a game? So of course the backend is the same as SC ... it's just test levels in the dev environment.