That's not true though.They arnt hard to get, many missions now give them as a reward
O7
Materials in Odyssey.
- Thread starter SergMx
- Start date
I think he's confusing settlement assault plans with sdps.That's not true though.
I'm guessing the only way to reliably get sdps is still via relogging a few dozen times at irregular markers with a data port? Or, of course, slowly over a very long period of time checking security data ports (or just buying them from carriers, although I doubt the latter is much faster using in game tools only).
If all existing data ports in the game were altered to only drop useful data and abundantly (so no fewer than 5 at a time, with more at active settlements as they're more challenging to access) and they then added settlement exterior ports for all the junk data, which new commanders could raid for quick and easy credits, data hunting might be decent enough then.
Want to make it challenging? Add a feature that starts deleting data over time if the alarm is raised and increase the data count if the guards nearby are all still alive
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I wouldn’t agree that Odyssey material gathering is better than Horizons. I find material gathering in Horizons a doddle. My bins are full most of the time. Regular combat gets most of the manufactured, plus the occasional trip to Hot Jupiter and HGE’s to collect the things that regular combat doesn’t drop. Crystal Shards for raw and Jameson’s crashed Cobra for data. Not being able to trade everything in Odyssey can leave you hunting for ages for the last couple of Opinion Polls or some other vital piece. It is certainly a lot grindier than Horizons IMHO.
So you have to do regular combat in space .... a turn off for many.
And doing the relog dance at Jameson's Cobra .... again a turn off for many.
The points being made, whether I agree with them or not, is that some are unhappy with material gathering, some happy, and some make a choice as whether to engage or not.
Steve
I don't tend to measure game play by how easy or difficult it is, rather by whether it's fun.
I find most methods of gathering materials in EDO more fun than EDH and that's mainly because of things like HGE hunting, data point grinding, circling Dav's Hope 100 times, scanning wakes for an hour and so on (all easy, not very fun). You do actually have equivalents of these in EDO though (relog grinding MIs as an example), so I do concede that (which are exactly the points I'm saying need improvement). You also don't need to do these activities after a certain length of time playing EDH as you can usually top up most of what you need from maxing out G5 mission rewards first (and scanning ships in SC and so on, all passive stuff if you just play EDH), so I'd concede this makes things harder in EDO as trading is not great. You're also right that raw mats are a "doddle" because of shard forests and a couple trips there can last for months of normal game play. No arguments from me on that one, I like how that works, enjoy that whole game loop a lot and wished that sort of thing was more common.
The general loop in EDO of "go to settlement/mission point and take stuff" is a lot more centralised and focused than what you have to do in EDH for ships and the fact that 100% of engineering data can be obtained via mission rewards definitely helps that. I find that a bit less tedious (and so more fun). That said, I think EDO fails on many other more basic points like material storage, trading and bottle-necks for materials. It's as though FD saw all our feedback for EDH engineering and listened to 1/3 of it, whilst ignoring the rest or doubling down and reverting it back to how it used to be when EDH first arrived and, even worse, adding the baffling feature of items being locked down once you've engineered it.
In terms of "ease"... if we measure both on the scale of time taken to fully upgrade a "build" from zero assets then EDO wins easily. The only reason EDH feels faster is because the storage, trading and bottle-necks are way better than EDO.
Neither is best in class... Both could be way better.
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You don’t have to do regular combat to get a lot of materials the bins get filled very quickly doing a bit. If you don’t like combat at all there are other ways. Signal sources, Dav’s Hope. Ditto for data and raw materials. Plenty of ways to de-dermify a feline! With Horizons with engineers unlocked even with zero materials I reckon I could gather all I need to engineer a ship fully in 4-5 hours. Odyssey would take 4-5 times longer unless the RNG gods shine on you.
Frontier made the stupid decision to make 2 games within one. They have made it to where you EITHER play ships or play on foot. The ONLY time that they have come close to a cohesive gaming expereince between both is with the new ax activation missions that you have to accept in ships. Thats the CLOSEST they've come to an actual good experience. They need to make on foot and ship gameplay cohesive and play off of each other with more of a focus around ships. The goal shouldnt be to have two seperate games and seperate gameplay, the goal should be to have ships and ship gameplay be the core, and on foot ENHANCE it.
From my perspective there are 4 bottle necks in EDO. Power regulators, suit schematics, weapon schematics and MI’s. The rest of the stuff for G1 to G5 you can get easily or trade. When it comes to the engineering getting that last bit of data or non tradable item you need can be tedious.
When it comes to the swapping in and out engineered items some I can see the rationale for others not. Clearly the backpack is not the sort of thing you can buy at a camping shop to go hiking with. Unless camping shops are now selling backpacks that hand you grenades when you need one! It is obviously built into the suit and you if need more capacity they have to rebuild it. Same for mag size. Even in modern weapons very limited interchangeability of mags. So I can see why your Intimidator large mag won’t fit your G15. Scopes though, I should be able to take the scope off one rifle and put it on another.
As for bottlenecks, weapon schematics are so easy to come by via larceny missions, that they are the equivalent of weeds.
PRs can be obtained via mission rewards, some are more rewarding than others. If you are happy to do the relog dance at a salvage site with the landed ship, they can be obtained fairly easily.
Suit schematics, can be obtained as rewards or as loot from PWR or CMD, not that bad.
MIs are probably the worst of the 4. The only quickish way is the relog dance at a crashed satellite.
Some bottlenecks are more restrictive than others.
Steve
And then there are games that have zero issues with bottlenecks, relog loops, having 1000 limits on assets and all that garbage.
All I see is "you can work around it" and that's true. Doesn't make it good though.
The fact we can trade EDO mats with other players is one of the better features of the expansion. Yet... can't do the same for EDH. The fact we can exchange any engineering material in EDH is great but missing in EDO. I was so pleased when they changed EDH mats to have a maximum storage limit per material, based on rarity - this was a huge change when it came in. Then EDO comes along as goes "nope" and sticks the old, already acknowledged as "bad" system in and never gets changed. Relog game play to get anything faster is just bad, sorry. It doesn't exist in all games (in fact, Elite is the only game I've played that has this concept and I'm sure it's the only one on the planet that has it so baked hard into its design that it's basically known for it). What's FD's fix when they get around to it? Remove the ability to relog loot and ignore the fact that players did it because the alternative is dull and slow and not favourable. This includes the total removal of all loot from settlements should you decide to leave the game and return or crash. It's a shoddy "fix" that totally ignores the fact that players did this for a reason.
The AX missions have enhanced data/goods acquisition quite a lot, as they always offer 5 and these are a great way to get materials. Only, this is way off limits for new players. And, if I'm honest, it's new players where FD will be seeing people abandon ship... not us veterans who put up with it. I have built an entire YT channel off the basis that obtaining assets is, basically, theft. AX missions have given another way to obtain these without that and, again, I'm grateful for this. But, generally, the most accessible way to be able to get the three types of asset is to go to different types of settlement and steal the stuff. Getting it via reactivation missions is less reliable and much more difficult to find.
I just wish they'd add assets as lootable from scavengers and offer them up as rewards for missions (ideally, in place of the missions that currently do not offer materials as an option), so some players can seek these out without needing to resort to larceny. More options is what I'm saying would be better here and both EDO and EDH engineering could be tweaked by sharing the better elements from each, as well.
And just offering some control over the rewards would not break the game, it just removes RNG. The "ah but you just work around it and wait 10 mins, or go to another system, or try another day, or blah blah" excuses and workarounds don't change my mind that RNG is never, ever better than player choice. For quite some time, we all thought opinion polls and smear campaign plans were somehow obfuscaed behind some clever system state game where we needed to unlock the code and decipher how to locate these faster. Turns out FD just needed to tweak the target for Opinion Polls down (twice!) to a reasonable level, not touching them at all in terms of how often they actually appear in game, and then actually, apparently reluctantly, get around to actually adding smear campaign plans into the game... At least the latter appear with great abundance and can be obtained within, usually, just two revisits to the same settlement (why not just make us need one and have done with it?)
It's all just so disorganised and cluttered and messy. Other games demonstrate it need not be. Yes, we just work around it. And apparently some are 100% content with that. That's fine. But it's OK to wish the game were enhanced to a state where we'd all go "Elite's engineering system is so fun, it's amazing, you need to give it a try"
We don't do that though, do we?
All I see is "you can work around it" and that's true. Doesn't make it good though.
The fact we can trade EDO mats with other players is one of the better features of the expansion. Yet... can't do the same for EDH. The fact we can exchange any engineering material in EDH is great but missing in EDO. I was so pleased when they changed EDH mats to have a maximum storage limit per material, based on rarity - this was a huge change when it came in. Then EDO comes along as goes "nope" and sticks the old, already acknowledged as "bad" system in and never gets changed. Relog game play to get anything faster is just bad, sorry. It doesn't exist in all games (in fact, Elite is the only game I've played that has this concept and I'm sure it's the only one on the planet that has it so baked hard into its design that it's basically known for it). What's FD's fix when they get around to it? Remove the ability to relog loot and ignore the fact that players did it because the alternative is dull and slow and not favourable. This includes the total removal of all loot from settlements should you decide to leave the game and return or crash. It's a shoddy "fix" that totally ignores the fact that players did this for a reason.
The AX missions have enhanced data/goods acquisition quite a lot, as they always offer 5 and these are a great way to get materials. Only, this is way off limits for new players. And, if I'm honest, it's new players where FD will be seeing people abandon ship... not us veterans who put up with it. I have built an entire YT channel off the basis that obtaining assets is, basically, theft. AX missions have given another way to obtain these without that and, again, I'm grateful for this. But, generally, the most accessible way to be able to get the three types of asset is to go to different types of settlement and steal the stuff. Getting it via reactivation missions is less reliable and much more difficult to find.
I just wish they'd add assets as lootable from scavengers and offer them up as rewards for missions (ideally, in place of the missions that currently do not offer materials as an option), so some players can seek these out without needing to resort to larceny. More options is what I'm saying would be better here and both EDO and EDH engineering could be tweaked by sharing the better elements from each, as well.
And just offering some control over the rewards would not break the game, it just removes RNG. The "ah but you just work around it and wait 10 mins, or go to another system, or try another day, or blah blah" excuses and workarounds don't change my mind that RNG is never, ever better than player choice. For quite some time, we all thought opinion polls and smear campaign plans were somehow obfuscaed behind some clever system state game where we needed to unlock the code and decipher how to locate these faster. Turns out FD just needed to tweak the target for Opinion Polls down (twice!) to a reasonable level, not touching them at all in terms of how often they actually appear in game, and then actually, apparently reluctantly, get around to actually adding smear campaign plans into the game... At least the latter appear with great abundance and can be obtained within, usually, just two revisits to the same settlement (why not just make us need one and have done with it?)
It's all just so disorganised and cluttered and messy. Other games demonstrate it need not be. Yes, we just work around it. And apparently some are 100% content with that. That's fine. But it's OK to wish the game were enhanced to a state where we'd all go "Elite's engineering system is so fun, it's amazing, you need to give it a try"
We don't do that though, do we?
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I think the only way the MI crashed satellite works is you have a mission now and don’t grab the circuit board or whatever is needed before relogging. Suit and weapon schematics mission rewards tend to be low numbers in general. 1 or sometimes 2 if you are lucky. Same for Power Regulators unless you are doing AX missions. Yes larceny will get you stuff quicker, which leads into the whole the only way to get on in EDO is steal stuff. Reactivation missions used to get useful stuff, but now finding often lockers are empty and data is limited or useless.
There are two type of players:
- Those that see the best suits, ships and modules and simply must have them now. Any activity that is required to get them there is considered grind. They often have a limited set of activities that they enjoy and for that they need the best equipment.
- Those that play the game enjoy the activities and treat the material collection as a bonus. When they get enough materials they upgrade.
- Not providing enough enjoyable activities to encourage the group 1 to be a group 2.
- Having too many materials to collect and not enough materials available. Also making those activities too mundane.
- Not providing enough alternatives for collecting materials e.g. rewards from other activities or bartering or setting up a trading market.
- Making it that some people feel that they must have G5 items now and that G1-4 are irrelevant.
- Making certain activities too difficult without the right equipment and not allowing player skill to be the major factor.
- Not enough depth to the activities to make them meaningful. Just travel, simple activity, return and repeat over and over again.
- Having the likelihood of meeting a G5 equipped commander so high that you have to G5 yourself to survive. The rewards for a G5 commander commander killing an opponent as it is for a skilled G1 commander killing the same opponent. There is therefore no benefit is upping your skills and loads of benefits for getting to G5 as fast as possible.
- Having too many cosmetic materials that are of no use.
- Allowing / not discouraging farming techniques and not providing alternatives. Farming is just mindless, skill less, grind.
One big difference though, you don't need more than 3 suits, 4 weapons. You could need 4 weapons for each ship.
Agreed that Elite is not perfect, but a lot of games have replaced the grind with pay to win. Sure you can play the game for hours and eventually you will find the stuff you need or here is a handy pack with everything you need if you divvy up some real cash. Including one game that shall be nameless that the only way to progress was to buy stuff, as if you tried to get it via gameplay a higher level player would come along and steal all your stuff before you could use it. Needless to say dropped that one every quick.
True, but the 3 materials per drop in EDO works in your favour. Assuming you do no trading in either to G5 a weapon in EDH you need about 20 drops. 4 weapons 80 or less than that as there will be some overlap. For a suit it something like 285 drops to go from G1 to G5. For experimentals 4 drops will see you right, if you want add 4 things to suit that is another 160 drops at 40 per upgrade. And yes you don’t need more than 3 suits and 4 weapons, you could do the same with EDH and just have 3 ships. Exploration, hauler and fighter. The difference is I am much happier to tinker in EDH than I am to do so in EDO. There are weapon and suit engineering combos I would like to try, but then think do I really want to spend the time looking for the stuff I need for that given that there is no chance to mix and match. With EDH once you have done some engineering you can swap out modules into a new ship and find that you only have a couple of things you need to engineer in order to try out something new.
As noted the weapon and suit schematics appear frequently enough to be considered junk.
SDPs actually do show up quite frequently during the AXrestorations. I'm not specifically looking to unlock those particular engineers anymore so I'm currently considering whether or not to put them in my bar. Of course as I'm not on Inara they would likely go to a forumite.
SDPs actually do show up quite frequently during the AXrestorations. I'm not specifically looking to unlock those particular engineers anymore so I'm currently considering whether or not to put them in my bar. Of course as I'm not on Inara they would likely go to a forumite.
May I ask what kind of group this is in relation to the EDO?
1. Yes I mine in the asteroids and along the way collect materials that I then I can change ... and I'm okay with that.
2. I kill pirates in the asteroids and along the way collect materials and I will be able to change them.
3. I scan the pirates in the system for interdiction and along the way I collect materials and will be able to swap them out.
4. I participate in ZC and collect materials and will be able to swap them.
Can you name me that in the EDO ? I have all the G5 costumes with the mods I need, I have lots of G5 weapons with all the mods I need. Missions are interesting to do the first 10-30 times, when you do the same 50 times is not so interesting.
Only the rescue (essentially) gives additional collection of assets, the necessary goods and data are very rare and can not be changed.
You've made a good point here. This is a game about space and ships, if we had to be monotonous crawl around the planets we would play in the NMS.
Here are a few examples, OK not all need EDO:
Explorers.
I did the Canonn Challenge and as a result I have all the ground based mats at maximum capacity. I know others that have done long expeditions, with the target of visiting distant worlds, but came back with a booty of mats. I've been to nearly every region in the galaxy, seen fantastic views with every colour atmosphere imaginable.
Exobiologists
Particularly those that venture outside spitting distance of the bubble. As you are searching for the plants you come across rocks that you can crack open.
Tritium Miners
If you are the sort of person that mines tritium for your carrier out in the black, you often come across asteroids with other mats.
Great Cinematic Video Making
Just look at some of the great stuff the content makers put on YouTube.
Sneaky Settlement Raiders
Those that prefer to get in and out of a settlement without being detected.
Casual Mission Completers
Those that enjoy doing missions, without the conflict element.
SRV Racers
While you are waiting for the race to start or waiting for your turn to race, if there is a rock nearby, crack it open and collect the contents.
SRV Leapers
A bit niche, but there is a bug in the game where if you drive over spilled mats at speed, your SRV will be propelled great distances into the air. Great fun!!
Guardian Quests
I did the Ram Tah quest. Picked up a fair few mats on the way. Never used them.
Others
There are other things that you can do (See
for example). Not everyone will like them, but it proves that you don't have to follow the FDev missions only doctrine to have fun. I've seen SRV football (can't remember what they used for the ball), canyon racing (a bit more difficult to find decent canyons in EDO). The Buur Pit do a lot of silly games and have meet ups.
I've been playing EDO since its launch, not done any ship to ship combat, no AX stuff, no CZ battles. I have a G2 for my three suits and I engineered by ASPX to 63LY jumps. I don't need to engineer anything more, I've got a FC maxed out with facilities and 12 billion in the bank, 33 ships and at least one of most of the modules. I'm having great fun playing EDO every day. I know there are plenty of others like me. It not to everyone's taste, but what is?
I'm currently taking a break from exploring. In Colonia doing a few on foot mission. I have not needed any G5 weapons. I run them over in my SRV, much more fun. Collecting loads of junk and useful stuff in the process. No need for any of it, but I might just engineer my Artemis suit so I can have on foot night vision.
I would agree with you that the missions are not varied enough. Even the new ones that FDev have added recently are the same operations with a different theme and story line. I wish there was more to find on these barren worlds, I wish you could do cave exploring, do more player trading and coop (not just fighting), EVA to do repairs and other stuff. So if the stock activities that FDev provides are starting to get boring, use your imagination and get out there and have fun. You don't need mats and G5 equipment to have fun, but others will disagree. Hence my statement about there being two groups (there may be more) of players.
I'm not one of those people who likes to kill Hydra on the Sidewinder.
Maybe some people like to take part in the ZC on a ship without engineers, but I don't like it.
Flying just a ship and seeing that I need to improve I do it.
But if I do missions on foot and I need something to improve, I can not do it, my warehouse of data and goods are full, but there is no need for me and I just sell them.
I did say "need" wholly on purpose, and yes i am also fully aware that you can haggle quite a bit higher mats payouts from the concourse NPC mission givers. =)
For me doing missions is mind-numbingly dull and slow, so isn't it just grand that we have options?
-it comes down to not only perspective, but also playstyle and/or temperament.
Roaming around thargoid territory is anything but dull tbqf.
YMMV was as much my point.