Taking a look at the journey of a new player

[rootsrat]

Well... doing it wrong is certainly an option. Look at it this way: Games are supposed to be fun and entertaining. You don't find a particular game or a particular game loop entertaining, or found a way to circumvent or shorten that game loop that makes it not entertaining or fun. Yet you keep doing it.

You tell me if that fits the definition of doing it wrong or not...

I think there is a factor of context and definition there as well. To my surprise, when having these discussions, "grind" is not always something people don't enjoy.

But I prefer to call that kind of stuff "farming" - I don't mind doing it, but it is very repetitive. Farming can easily become grind

To me "grind" is a repetitive task in game that I eventually stop enjoy doing due to it's repetitiveness. Some games don't have alternatives to this task and you are forced to do it, if you want to achieve the end goal of that task (i.e. gather X amount of something in order to do crafting in a game). Elite is NOT that kind of game it does offer grindy game loops as one of MANY WAYS of achieving that result.

In this context, grind it totally optional in Elite.

 

[rootsrat]

I'm guessing your ship's parrot got hold of your computer, 'cause you're having the discussion right now... .

Well you gotta breake your own rules sometimes

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Well you gotta breake your own rules sometimes

"You are remembered for the rules you break." Now, where did I hear that quote recently... I don't remember. By the way, do you like homemade submarines?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

To someone who has played SC before ED must seem like a miracle.

 

[Frankymole]

Well, if you think Elite is designed with grind as a principle, you are either plain wrong, or are choosing the grind over the other ways of getting stuff, or are just unaware of them.

The grind is entirely optional in this game (with a couple of exceptions). It is not the premise of it.

True, but also it's an optional goal to strive for improvements to weapons, ships and suits; that gives some of us something to do in the game (some players opt for BGS/player factions expansion, powerplay tinkering, squadron goals, wing missions, a fleet carrier, reaching Elite V in all rank disciplines, or various other longer-term goals). As such, seeking materials and modifications is a legitimate gameplay experience. Or "grind" as some call it.

 

[vanFace]

I will look out for his 'Best Start in Elite Dangerous' followed by 'Road to Riches in Elite Dangerous' vids, followed shortly after by 'Nothing new in ED - Is Elite Dangerous Dead?' vids or Forum Threads.

Funny enough he already dropped the term "grind" in his latest video at 8:45, in the context of ship engineering and material gathering. I guess your prediction might be spot on.

 

[zimms]

[...] (i.e. gather X amount of something in order to do crafting in a game). [...]

I don't see a huge difference to Engineering in Elite.

 

[vanFace]

I don't see a huge difference to Engineering in Elite.

Oh, there is. In Elite you also have to gather Y amount of something different as well as Z of a third one. Oh, and that third one drops... like never. If you are lucky.

 

[rootsrat]

I don't see a huge difference to Engineering in Elite.

The difference is that usually game will offer just one way of acquiring such stuff. Elite offers a few, which allows for alternating your gameplay loops, which is not a grind, because you don't do one and the same loop to get the stuff you want. You can do if you want to, but you don't have to.

 

[rootsrat]

Oh, there is. In Elite you also have to gather Y amount of something different as well as Z of a third one. Oh, and that third one drops... like never. If you are lucky.

This reply suggests that you either have a very weird definition of what "grind" is (or have a misconception of it), or that you just dislike the gameplay loops that Elite offers in general.

Anyways, as I said, I really can't be bothered to have the same discussion for the umpenth time so...

 

[Viajero]

To someone who has played SC before ED must seem like a miracle.

Well, that is my case. Although it was 9 years ago . ED was a miracle by comparison already back then.

 

[vanFace]

This reply suggests that you either have a very weird definition of what "grind" is (or have a misconception of it), or that you just dislike the gameplay loops that Elite offers in general.

Anyways, as I said, I really can't be bothered to have the same discussion for the umpenth time so...

Then why do you keep replying to my statements that never were directed at you? If such discussions upset you that much, perhaps you shouldn't participate in them? Or do you do that with your mod hat on and just want to disrupt it?
Did it ever come to your mind that perhaps YOUR definition of grind could be weird as well? And how about I neither have a weird definition nor dislike the gameplay loops, just think that the game design has some flaws in it that could be fixed. Is that not possible in your world?

 

[Shadowsnog]

Then why do you keep replying to my statements that never were directed at you? If such discussions upset you that much, perhaps you shouldn't participate in them? Or do you do that with your mod hat on and just want to disrupt it?
Did it ever come to your mind that perhaps YOUR definition of grind could be weird as well? And how about I neither have a weird definition nor dislike the gameplay loops, just think that the game design has some flaws in it that could be fixed. Is that not possible in your world?

dont trigger. nobody is dirsupting you. nobody is saying elite is flawless.
or do you need roots to come and affirm your every action?
do fdev need to put a magic "fill my mats" button in game to satisfy lazyness? should the developer be blamed for people bypassing gameplay to cheese profits?
grind is optional. farming is optional. its a sandbox. do what thou wilt. do you want to farm? do it. do you want to grind? do it. do you want to relog 150x in place? do it. do you want to play organicly and take mats as they come? do it. do you want to ride stock cobra all your life? do it. you control the buttons you press.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Funny enough he already dropped the term "grind" in his latest video at 8:45, in the context of ship engineering and material gathering. I guess your prediction might be spot on.

I noticed that too. Although it sounded more like "well, time to go farming" than "oh god my soul evaporated". Also, he plays SC. He is used to pain. Reset anyone?

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

do you want to farm? do it. do you want to grind? do it. do you want to relog 150x in place? do it. do you want to play organicly and take mats as they come? do it. do you want to ride stock cobra all your life? do it. you control the buttons you press.

You are a very wise person, you just forgot one caveat: Do it, but if you choose to, don't complain about it afterwards.

 

[vanFace]

I noticed that too. Although it sounded more like "well, timw to go farming" than "oh god my soul evaporated". Also, he plays SC. He is used to pain. Reset anyone?

He also mentioned that that "work" is not for everybody. And if you take a look at his list now, there even is a new one titled "Rough Road: Grinding Imperial Rank For An Imperial Courier - Not As Easy As I Thought". In his first sentences, he says "I was grinding...".

I find it very interesting. Although he clearly sees it as "grinding" (we had the definition question above), he is happy with it. Which fits my point from before: "grinding" - as it is in Elite - is a way to bind people to the game. If it gets too much, though, people might burn out and then tell us that "there is nothing new in Elite" and basically quit. We have seen that pattern quite some time now, so it would make sense to talk about why that happens. If it really is the "grind is only in your mind" thing, then perhaps it would be good to analyze where this "mind grind" is coming from. Why do people feel the urge to basically cheat the system (I know, relog is not seen as such)? Could it be that the normal path is much too slow due to the lack of really engaging game-play? Are the consequences for the normal path too harsh?

Anyway, observing that player discovering Elite is really fascinating.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

He also mentioned that that "work" is not for everybody. And if you take a look at his list now, there even is a new one titled "Rough Road: Grinding Imperial Rank For An Imperial Courier - Not As Easy As I Thought". In his first sentences, he says "I was grinding...".

I find it very interesting. Although he clearly sees it as "grinding" (we had the definition question above), he is happy with it. Which fits my point from before: "grinding" - as it is in Elite - is a way to bind people to the game. If it gets too much, though, people might burn out and then tell us that "there is nothing new in Elite" and basically quit. We have seen that pattern quite some time now, so it would make sense to talk about why that happens. If it really is the "grind is only in your mind" thing, then perhaps it would be good to analyze where this "mind grind" is coming from. Why do people feel the urge to basically cheat the system (I know, relog is not seen as such)? Could it be that the normal path is much too slow due to the lack of really engaging game-play? Are the consequences for the normal path too harsh?

Anyway, observing that player discovering Elite is really fascinating.

Yeah. Whatever floats your boat, a bit like: If you like to grind, it's not really grind, if you get my drift. The game gives you lots of opportunity to grind, but you don't have to. You may, however, need to adjust your pace and your expectations.

I just started the new video and had to chuckle a bit. Seems he gets it; says he knows there are loads of guides how to grind fast, but he's going to do it his way and enjoy the game. Let his common sense guide him. That's kind of the right attitude.

 

[rootsrat]

Then why do you keep replying to my statements that never were directed at you? If such discussions upset you that much, perhaps you shouldn't participate in them? Or do you do that with your mod hat on and just want to disrupt it?
Did it ever come to your mind that perhaps YOUR definition of grind could be weird as well? And how about I neither have a weird definition nor dislike the gameplay loops, just think that the game design has some flaws in it that could be fixed. Is that not possible in your world?

Just for the record, the discussion does not upset me. It is more of a tiresome experience, because I've done it gazillion times. I am also not claiming the game is design flawlessly, but what you call grind is not a grind. Ergo, you are barking at a wrong tree. Simple as that.

Just wanted to clarify that.

 

[vanFace]

Just for the record, the discussion does not upset me. It is more of a tiresome experience, because I've done it gazillion times. I am also not claiming the game is design flawlessly, but what you call grind is not a grind. Ergo, you are barking at a wrong tree. Simple as that.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Didn't look like so, but glad to hear that. Still your statement of grind and what is it's definition is a kind of absolute that is only true in your mind. It is not universal, as we can see in the very OP's subject: the player there already called it grinding numerous times. You might have to accept that such definitions are not as precise as you seem to think they are. Or not. Feel free to ignore such discussions in the future.

 

[SteveWW57]

You may, however, need to adjust your pace and your expectations.

And I think that this is a very salient point. Some have high expectations and want to gather at a faster pace (without repetition). Where the line is drawn there will still those who believe that it is in the wrong place.

Steve