The Guardians - Do you think it's solved?

Raz Griffin

Raz Griffin
Hello commanders,

I've been researching the Guardian lore lately and as part of my research i wanted to ask the community about this.

Please tell me why aren't you trying to crack the mysteries surrounding the Guardian civilization and lore.

Here's a few standard answers (the Forum doesn't allow poll creation) for you to choose, but feel free to express in your own words if you don't fit in any:

  • The Guardian Lore is already fully discovered, everything we discovered is all there is;
  • The Guardian Lore is incomplete, it requires FDev adding further content to it;
  • I think the Guardian Lore is too complex, i dont feel i have the skills to work on it;
  • I think the Guardian Lore is boring, i rather do other activities;
  • What in the space pirate's beard is Guardians? I never heard of it or i know very little about it;
  • The hell you're talking about, I actively investigate it!;
  • Heh, you space peasants. I've investigated and discovered things the community is not aware of;
  • Other, please add your description;

Thanks for your participation o7
 

Felix DiCestria

Felix DiCestria
Plenty of active research going on, try @ClaraRulesSpace The complete background for a technological species is going to be on the large side, consider what we know about the Sumerians for example. Putting that in a game would require rather a lot of resources, and AI wouldn't be particularly convincing.
As such there are inevitably going to be substantial gaps with variable Levels of obvious.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Navigare Necesse Est said:
How would I know if there was something nobody has found yet?
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Games are a bounded context. Things that aren't just procedural/repeated are finite.

In that regard, it's pretty straightforward to work out the rough shape of what is yet to be discovered.

For example, it's sane to say there's probably undiscovered guardian ruins out there in some regions where they are yet to be discovered, but are nothing new compared to extant runs ruins.

It's not sane to say there's an as-yet undiscovered "thing" out there related to guardians that is fundamentally unique enough that it's discovery would change the way we look at and even interact with the guardians, and we've never seen it in the game to date.

For a given definition of sane. Past indicators predicate future shapes. There's plenty of examples of all the things mentioned as reasons to consider things "done" for now... but no examples of the latter sort of discovery.
 
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Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
There's certainly plenty of things not known about the Guardians - there are two permit-locked regions clearly associated with them (because their sites are found nearby around the border), and the Azimuth storyline had the discovery that some of their previous "junk" items in fact had a use.

There's also whatever is going on with the Thargoid sites now "converting" Guardian relics, and whatever the Thargoids were up to at that battlefield in Wregoe before we interrupted them ... or going back rather further, who the entities that found Halsey and Gan Romero (and maybe Jaques) were. Plenty of outstanding mysteries and hooks for future mysteries there.

As Jmanis says, it'd be implausible to assume that every single Guardian site of the existing known forms has been discovered already - it's a big galaxy, and some of their smaller deep space outposts are pretty small - so there's still things to find in that sense.



The slightly different question is: is there something CMDRs can do in game right now to make a meaningfully "new" discovery about the Guardians? Well, it's never possible to prove the answer is "no", but Frontier haven't given any hints that the answer is "yes" either. There are groups who think that it's likely that the answer is yes, which have been saying that they're on the verge of an important discovery for months now ... without actually making it, and without anyone else having much luck duplicating their work so far to come to similar conclusions. Again, that's not to say that they're wrong necessarily, but the odds don't seem great in general.



Compare this with the "unsolved mystery" which I and others are working on: how do the Thargoids decide where to attack next? We know there's a correct answer to that, because every week they attack somewhere. We also know that we don't know what the answer is - no theory yet fully explains the behaviour at Oya since the end of June, and there are some earlier anomalies as well. Various people have suggested theories which have worked for a while and then been proved wrong, or which explain more of the behaviour but then have trouble explaining other bits and don't seem easily modifiable to fit. Someone new might well come in, look at the data, and say "in hindsight it's obvious, the solution is this" and be right - please do! - but until then it's still clear what the mystery is, and theories can be tested to see if they're wrong, right, or promising but still need work.

Or, perhaps, the mystery solved earlier in the year of "where the lost Green Gas Giant was". We knew it existed - there was a picture! - and very roughly where it was. An expedition set out to find it with tens of players conducting a coordinated search in a logical way based on the information available, and they did indeed find it. Fairly quickly, too, if not at the "it's been solved within 24 hours" that most official "find something" mysteries get.

The Guardian mysteries feel very different to those, in that there doesn't really seem to be a hint that there is a player-solvable mystery right now.
 
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aRJay

aRJay
Raz Griffin said:
Hello commanders,

I've been researching the Guardian lore lately and as part of my research i wanted to ask the community about this.

Please tell me why aren't you trying to crack the mysteries surrounding the Guardian civilization and lore.

Here's a few standard answers (the Forum doesn't allow poll creation) for you to choose, but feel free to express in your own words if you don't fit in any:

  • The Guardian Lore is already fully discovered, everything we discovered is all there is;
  • The Guardian Lore is incomplete, it requires FDev adding further content to it;
  • I think the Guardian Lore is too complex, i dont feel i have the skills to work on it;
  • I think the Guardian Lore is boring, i rather do other activities;
  • What in the space pirate's beard is Guardians? I never heard of it or i know very little about it;
  • The hell you're talking about, I actively investigate it!;
  • Heh, you space peasants. I've investigated and discovered things the community is not aware of;
  • Other, please add your description;

Thanks for your participation o7
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My character in game is Loreless.

As a player my interest and study of the lore for the whole of Elite began and ended with reading The Dark Wheel back in 1985 and again sometime around 2016.

I think it is wonderful that it is there and am happy for the people who live for it in the game but it is not something that I want to put more attention to than the flavour and descriptions I run into in the game from time to time.
 

William J Smith

William J Smith
Nothing will happen with the guardian storyline until the guardian AI constructs are awakened from their slumber.
At which point the thargoids will start a fight with them again and humanity gets stomped on by both sides(the AI constucts were programmed by a bunch of xenophobic nutjobs.. so I doubt they will value us humans.... )

Bill

<<<currently causing a tritium shortage as he loads up his carrier again...
 

Raz Griffin

Raz Griffin
Thank you all for your answers. I was curious to know what the community thinks about this subject in general , this helps understand how committed we are towards solving a mystery, thus what level of lock would hold us.
 

Shurimal

Shurimal
Ian Doncaster said:
is there something CMDRs can do in game right now to make a meaningfully "new" discovery about the Guardians? Well, it's never possible to prove the answer is "no", but Frontier haven't given any hints that the answer is "yes" either.
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Searching for a black cat in a dark room when it's not clear if there is a cat at all...

Compare this with the "unsolved mystery" which I and others are working on: how do the Thargoids decide where to attack next? We know there's a correct answer to that, because every week they attack somewhere. We also know that we don't know what the answer is - no theory yet fully explains the behaviour at Oya since the end of June, and there are some earlier anomalies as well. Various people have suggested theories which have worked for a while and then been proved wrong, or which explain more of the behaviour but then have trouble explaining other bits and don't seem easily modifiable to fit.
Click to expand...
This sounds a lot like quantum gravity IRL :) Good luck figuring the thing out!
 

heathenlamb

H
I'll be blunt about this .... I, like many, have been playing ED since the 80's. I just love the experience ... however ...
I find the Thargoid/Guardian story line to be boring beyond measure. The only real issue I have with ED in it's current form is that the story elements just always feel completely removed from the actual game. I can't seem to feel any way about any of it, or connect to it in any meaningful way. As I said, it's just, really boring.

That goes for the "Royal family" story line as well. Listening to the GALNET updates on the back story going on just does ZERO for me. It simply isn't engaging.
 

Spenceuk99

Spenceuk99
heathenlamb said:
I'll be blunt about this .... I, like many, have been playing ED since the 80's. I just love the experience ... however ...
I find the Thargoid/Guardian story line to be boring beyond measure. The only real issue I have with ED in it's current form is that the story elements just always feel completely removed from the actual game. I can't seem to feel any way about any of it, or connect to it in any meaningful way. As I said, it's just, really boring.

That goes for the "Royal family" story line as well. Listening to the GALNET updates on the back story going on just does ZERO for me. It simply isn't engaging.
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I agree. The last time I felt involved and cared was the whole Salome one. Maybe FDEV should throw some money at Drew and get him to write up something else a bit like that?
 

Kira Goto

Kira Goto
heathenlamb said:
That goes for the "Royal family" story line as well.
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That one, I’d have to agree with. It kind of just feels… completely disjointed from anything actually meaningful going on. Why should we care about Imperials building extremely pointless statues while Thargoids are sitting at the edge of the Bubble? And what does the “Imperial Mother”(ugh) mean when we basically never hear anything other than from the prominent/more publicly visible figures anyway?

It feels like some filler stuff that will probably end up not having a whole lot of meaning while the Thargoid story arc drags out for a long time. I for one appreciate the Thargoid stuff, but it has also felt kind of confined to GalNet as well, to a degree. Sure, we have certain sites coming into existence, like the barnacle matrix stuff, Glaives, Scythes, the Titans… but there are just long drops where nothing really happens with it after initial introduction, so the flow kind of stops. See the Nemesis plot device. It has now been at least five months since it was initially introduced, with a few followup GalNet articles(but nothing for players to really get involved in). And that was it. Nothing’s been done with it yet/since.

(Rant about the slow story pacing sort of breaking the continuity with long lines of nothing over.)
 

Spenceuk99

Spenceuk99
Maybe they could do a story where the blue haired princess gets big, fat, red, sausagy fingers?
 
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