Fall DLC 2023 Speculation

[Spiderhawk]

Il try to answer a few questions in my opinion as to this years dlcs reception.

Tropic
I originally wanted lar gibbon. After the Siamang came out, I felt disappointed as they sometimes use the brachiation frames so I had no desire for more gibbons unless frontier did some serious work on it.
A lot of people were upset that the sloths were WE instead of habitat (I couldn’t care less).
AWM people didn’t seem to like (I like ‘em)

Arid
I only really wanted the sand cat. A lot of us expected a desert dlc, the biome dlcs usually cover around the world, this one only covered africa (with europe and Asia exceptions such as the porcupine). The majority of the roster was just African hoofstock. Some of us felt robbed a chance for baboons and birds. Nothing wrong with the viper but it spooked us a bit believing that frontier is done with WE or missed a chance to use the WE for a bird species.

Seems fall and spring dlcs are the most anticipated judging from years past. If this dlc is a build, animal or something new pattern, I hope it has a fine balance of animal types and from around the world.

 

[Marvinb]

Yeah that's the main problem, this was earlier in the dlc releases with many expecting large diverse dlc packs. So many of the reviews state $10 for 4 animals seems far too high for what it offers or general not a fan of the scenery pieces we need more animals. The good thing I think is the backlash of this and others like the Australia pack lead to the animal packs which kind of settled the general outrage of lack of animals.

The zoo tycoon 2 expansions were also still the big point of reference back then which had like 20 animals and a couple pieces. So 5 animals, plenty scenery but cheaper price are definetely a diversion from that.
Its just different times. 20 PZ quality animals for 10 bucks are just not gonna happen, especially not ever 3 months

 

[RightWhale]

Ok I just thought of it, when they mentioned “mixing” on the livestream announcement, do you think it could be referencing to mixing paint or colors? I was thinking drinks or smoothies, but I just thought of that

 

[Sir Z-Bra]

This forum is going to erupt like Mt Saint Helen if the "mixing things up" turns out to be a Sounds of Fall music album.

 

[Marlin🏳️🌈]

I see people seem to have been busy here already! I just wanna chime in and say that I will commit crimes beyond imagination if the Wild Boar isn‘t included in the Fall or Winter pack!

 

[Captain Callum]

This forum is going to erupt like Mt Saint Helen if the "mixing things up" turns out to be a Sounds of Fall music album.

I'll be sure to make sounds of banging frontiers door music album if that ever happens

 

[Antmar97]

I will commit crimes beyond imagination if the Wild Boar isn‘t included in the Fall or Winter pack!

I'll propose an easy solution, Wild Boar in the fall pack and Muskox in the winter pack!

 

[RightWhale]

This forum is going to erupt like Mt Saint Helen if the "mixing things up" turns out to be a Sounds of Fall music album.

They also announce no further DLC, it’s done. Arid was the last one

 

[AndyZoos]

Yeah that's the main problem, this was earlier in the dlc releases with many expecting large diverse dlc packs. So many of the reviews state $10 for 4 animals seems far too high for what it offers or general not a fan of the scenery pieces we need more animals. The good thing I think is the backlash of this and others like the Australia pack lead to the animal packs which kind of settled the general outrage of lack of animals.

Frontier has done a really great job listening to the playerbase and adapting/adjusting their approach to things. From the Arctic pack on you can see where they improved upon things, listened to the players, etc.

Things aren't always the way we'd all like them to be but... You can see/feel the feedback being implemented. It's kinda cool to see it in practice, TBH. I also think that's why people feel such ownership over the game. If you think about it, the broader player feedback really helped shape the new features we got, what wound up in DLC packs, etc.

SA pack also had a lot of duplicated pieces because of building sets coming in both flexi- and none-flexicolor versions. The piece count looks high on paper but not really when you look into it. That is also a negative about the pack.

The "piece bloat" was real at the start of the game. I still cringe when I look at the two sets of bamboo that we have for literally no reason, coupled with certain pieces not being flexicolor, the lack of consistent animal signage/decals like the packs that came later, etc.

But overall, I think the pack is pretty sweet, TBH.

The zoo tycoon 2 expansions were also still the big point of reference back then which had like 20 animals and a couple pieces. So 5 animals, plenty scenery but cheaper price are definitely a diversion from that.
Its just different times. 20 PZ quality animals for 10 bucks are just not gonna happen, especially not ever 3 months

I'm glad those comparisons eventually stopped. Like you say, it's "just different times" and this new model of regular, smaller DLCs versus one bigger one every quarter for a year or so is just... The new norm. And, TBH, it works in everybody's favor! Regular revenue for developers, player feedback can be more quickly implemented, a better variety of content, and it keeps interesting in the game (and thus, videos and online chatter about it) spiking more regularly.

Early on in the game's development, I recall there being a subset of people agitated that DLC even existed in any form, insisting that it was just a "greedy excuse" for developers to release unfinished games and charge for content that "should be in the base game." Glad that stopped too!

 

[Marvinb]

Early on in the game's development, I recall there being a subset of people agitated that DLC even existed in any form, insisting that it was just a "greedy excuse" for developers to release unfinished games and charge for content that "should be in the base game." Glad that stopped too!

I can kinda see the "should have been in the base game argument" but that would surely increase the price and developement time. And we would never have the amount of stuff in the game without DLCs, even with a more expanded base game
I personally have no problem withe the dlc model frontier chose, benefits all - Frontier can continue to make profit from the game, and the players can enjoy the continued content being released regulary. And i think 10€ is pretty fair for what you get in the DLCs

 

[Sir Z-Bra]

Early on in the game's development, I recall there being a subset of people agitated that DLC even existed in any form, insisting that it was just a "greedy excuse" for developers to release unfinished games and charge for content that "should be in the base game." Glad that stopped too!

I would like to see what these people would have as an end result if they were responsible for the development when they cant even seem to budget $10 every quarter for a DLC.

I can kinda see the "should have been in the base game argument" but that would surely increase the price and developement time.

And they would have belly-ached about that too, so as my family says pick your poison people, and you have to account for the fact they have to keep cash flow because they have to support 100s of employees. And I would like to see what other things the price complainers spend $10s on throughout the year.

 

[jcp011c]

Frontier has done a really great job listening to the playerbase and adapting/adjusting their approach to things. From the Arctic pack on you can see where they improved upon things, listened to the players, etc.

Things aren't always the way we'd all like them to be but... You can see/feel the feedback being implemented. It's kinda cool to see it in practice, TBH. I also think that's why people feel such ownership over the game. If you think about it, the broader player feedback really helped shape the new features we got, what wound up in DLC packs, etc.

The "piece bloat" was real at the start of the game. I still cringe when I look at the two sets of bamboo that we have for literally no reason, coupled with certain pieces not being flexicolor, the lack of consistent animal signage/decals like the packs that came later, etc.

But overall, I think the pack is pretty sweet, TBH.


I'm glad those comparisons eventually stopped. Like you say, it's "just different times" and this new model of regular, smaller DLCs versus one bigger one every quarter for a year or so is just... The new norm. And, TBH, it works in everybody's favor! Regular revenue for developers, player feedback can be more quickly implemented, a better variety of content, and it keeps interesting in the game (and thus, videos and online chatter about it) spiking more regularly.

Early on in the game's development, I recall there being a subset of people agitated that DLC even existed in any form, insisting that it was just a "greedy excuse" for developers to release unfinished games and charge for content that "should be in the base game." Glad that stopped too!

For sure, I will never understand that argument. It's like...they would rather have had the developer delay the game for years and years to be sure to get all those animals in? And that's just the first issue. Where is all the money coming from to hold off and further develop the games content for another 4-5 years? It's not coming from game sales, since it would have been held off. No money to fund game development, no further pay for developers...and the game never comes out in this scenario since they "held off" another few years to put another 100+ species in the game.Or at least try to. The game goes on the shelf never to see the light of day and then those same people crying about DLC will then also cry about the game being "abandoned".

Plus, there's definitely going to be some people who are not going to be happy no matter what and how much is included - I don't have anyone specifically in mind, just you know there's always people who will never be happy.

Was the base game roster perfect to me? No...and I don't think it was perfect for anyone. I can imagine most everyone would have had some minimal changes at the least. But for me that would probably be just 10-12 animals to switch out. But oh...those are the animals that are pulling in a lot of those DLC sales! Switching out the Springbok for the Meerkat...takes away some of the appeal for the Africa DLC. Though....I would have probably still gotten the meerkat in the game in place of something anyways. Probably a sprinkling of Australia and a couple more South American animals in the base game - which wouldnt' even have to be the super popular ones - just to give those continents a better balance...

But I'm getting off track here. Point is with the base game roster, it was pretty good. Really good. 53 habitat animals if I count right, which is a bigger roster than other zoo base games had. All the absolutely uber iconic species included - lions, Giant Panda, Giraffe, Elephant and other animals in that tier of necessity. And then you look at the exhibit animal system, of which very few have ever appeared in a zoo game before simply because other developers never dared to think that "small". The exhibits are one of the weaker points of the game IMO, but I still enjoy that we have something fairly new and rarely seen in the Zoo simulator genre.

 

[Nausicaaa 22]

This forum is going to erupt like Mt Saint Helen if the "mixing things up" turns out to be a Sounds of Fall music album.

U know the San Andreas Faults, right? Guess who would come out soon in that case

 

[CharlieXGaming]

Alright I’m gonna change the topic cause I have absolutely nothing to add to the current one going on .

What do you feel is the most and least complete continent we have? How many animals you guys think it would take to make the one you choose as the least, complete again?

 

[AlexSea]

Alright I’m gonna change the topic cause I have absolutely nothing to add to the current one going on .

What do you feel is the most and least complete continent we have? How many animals you guys think it would take to make the one you choose as the least, complete again?

Most complete: Might be an unpopular opinion, but Europe. Aside from maybe the Wild Boar (and I personally think we could do without it regardless), there's no glaring holes in the roster at all.
Least complete: South America. We still need a coati species, the Spectacled Bear, and at minimum three more monkey species, a spider monkey, a howler monkey, and a smaller monkey like the Golden Lion Tamarin or Squirrel Monkey.

 

[YesIndeed]

Would make sense to announce update today so we can all get excited over the weekend. If it’s announced Monday morning, many of us may be working so may not have the same impact.

Unless the update comes after Monday because it introduces something new that would spoil the DLC announcement?

Well for twilight pack they showed everything in the update except the walkthrough exhibit. If there is a big important thing then they could just show off everything else and only show the other thing later.

 

[AndyZoos]

I can kinda see the "should have been in the base game argument" but that would surely increase the price and developement time. And we would never have the amount of stuff in the game without DLCs, even with a more expanded base game
I personally have no problem withe the dlc model frontier chose, benefits all - Frontier can continue to make profit from the game, and the players can enjoy the continued content being released regulary. And i think 10€ is pretty fair for what you get in the DLCs

I don't buy that "argument" at all, largely because the same people complaining about the content coming later would also complain about the price increase. In general, I always assumed it was people who didn't understand the way things worked in 2019. Which kinda makes sense... If you're not a gamer and the last computer game you purchased was Zoo Tycoon 2? Of course you're going to be out of the loop. So I understood the mindset; I just fully disagreed with it and rolled my eyes at people who weren't willing to "get with the times."

And I'm with you on the model too! Like I said before, I think it really benefits everybody. And it even provides things for people who don't purchase every DLC! (Which, to be clear, I empathize with people who can't afford them. I get the frustration that can cause and I think it's a very different scenario than what I'm articulating above.)

For sure, I will never understand that argument. It's like...they would rather have had the developer delay the game for years and years to be sure to get all those animals in? And that's just the first issue. Where is all the money coming from to hold off and further develop the games content for another 4-5 years? It's not coming from game sales, since it would have been held off. No money to fund game development, no further pay for developers...and the game never comes out in this scenario since they "held off" another few years to put another 100+ species in the game.Or at least try to. The game goes on the shelf never to see the light of day and then those same people crying about DLC will then also cry about the game being "abandoned".

Plus, there's definitely going to be some people who are not going to be happy no matter what and how much is included - I don't have anyone specifically in mind, just you know there's always people who will never be happy.

Was the base game roster perfect to me? No...and I don't think it was perfect for anyone. I can imagine most everyone would have had some minimal changes at the least. But for me that would probably be just 10-12 animals to switch out. But oh...those are the animals that are pulling in a lot of those DLC sales! Switching out the Springbok for the Meerkat...takes away some of the appeal for the Africa DLC. Though....I would have probably still gotten the meerkat in the game in place of something anyways. Probably a sprinkling of Australia and a couple more South American animals in the base game - which wouldnt' even have to be the super popular ones - just to give those continents a better balance.

For sure! The game wasn't perfect and it still isn't but... Waiting for a "perfect" game is just not going to pan out for anybody. Beyond that, people have done the math and we actually get more content using the current system (compared to the expansion pack model of yore).

A fun exercise to run after development ends might be: "What's your ideal base game roster for a sequel? / What would make a sequel worthwhile to you?" All with the assumption that there will be more DLC - and maybe delving into what the DLC format would be next time around! I don't even want to get into that now but... Could be fun when the time comes!

 

[Nausicaaa 22]

Alright I’m gonna change the topic cause I have absolutely nothing to add to the current one going on .

What do you feel is the most and least complete continent we have? How many animals you guys think it would take to make the one you choose as the least, complete again?

The most complete is obviously Africa. Every keystone and essential species, as well some very requested ones are already complete. No African animal is a must now, just very wanted or requested.

And the least I have to choose South America. We really need more animals from there to really complete the roster. Rhea, Mara, Brazilian porcupine, spider monkey, tamarins, squirrel monkeys, macaws, toucans, a coati, howler monkeys, harpy eagle, Spectacled bear, and the ocelot should be enough to cover enoughly.

This don't happen to its less representation cousins, Europe and Oceania. In the Oceania side, we almost have all covered (Species like the tassie, a Tree Kangaroo and a Kiwi should be enough to cover all). And Europe needs some more representation, but is not what the majority of people is looking for, + most of the requested European Animals are clones or just too similar to animals already in the game.

 

[Aramar]

What do you feel is the most and least complete continent we have?

The most complete is Antarctica since I can only think of adding another penguin.

The least complete is South America and it would need three more primates, a small cat, a bear, a flamingo, a mara, a rhea and a coati to feel complete (and a bunch of exhibit animals too like green anaconda, blue poison dart frog, turtles and basilisks)

 

[CharlieXGaming]

Most complete: Might be an unpopular opinion, but Europe. Aside from maybe the Wild Boar (and I personally think we could do without it regardless), there's no glaring holes in the roster at all.
Least complete: South America. We still need a coati species, the Spectacled Bear, and at minimum three more monkey species, a spider monkey, a howler monkey, and a smaller monkey like the Golden Lion Tamarin or Squirrel Monkey.

Honestly I agree with most of this, for me:

North America: Complete, we have all of the iconic animals aside from one (ABB) but that one isn’t one I desperately need. One I would like to have but don’t need would be a porcupine.

Europe: Like you said, complete though I do think we need the wild boar.

Oceania: Somewhere in the middle. We have all the icon animals like koalas and kangaroos, but there are still gaps to fill (tree kangaroo, echidna etc)

Africa: Same as Oceania, have all the icons, but it can still keep going with a couple more (serval, baboon (!), some sort of bird)

Asia: Pretty Complete, I can’t think of any big names we’re missing off the top of my head.

South America: Obviously the most incomplete. Spectacled Bear, Ocelot, at least 2 monkeys, Brazilian Porcupine, etc are definitely needed.

Antarctica: Complete I guess, don’t know what to say for this one.