I concur. It's just not fun. It's tedious and you can fail even if you do everything "right." Whatever right even is.
Am I getting too old but is the new content too difficult to access?
- Thread starter Phoenix_Dfire
- Start date
Shielded for evac ensures the scythes can't get your passengers. I can confirm.
The multicannons then take care of the Glaives.
Obviously I am in the camp that finds the Titan content fun and managable, so take it as just my opinion, man: Failure should be an option, especially as it has little consequence. You don't die or something, you just pay a rebuy and start over. I know, Frontier made the Titans and the war the mainstream if the game... But even in mainstream gameplay, there should be things that challenge you and that you can fail.
Addendum: In case it helps anyone - This is the Phantom I use for pod rescues (yes, I know, that's not a beginner ship, it's heavily engineered). Initially I built it as a Glaive hunter with four Azimuth MCs, but I retrofit it as needed for Titan content. Right now it is set up for pod rescues (the extraction missiles don't show in EDSY yet), but replace the 3A collector with a Xeno MLC and you're good to go to farm fart boxes. Without boost it idles at below 18%, at 3/4 throttle or less it goes down to 16 and below. Don't chase the way marker, bost straight for the cloud. The Phantom uses four caustic sinks to reach the Titan if you are quick.
Escaping Glaive interdictions is trivially easy in that ship; it still works to hit SR immediately and boost away. I get to 6 km distance before the Glaive(s) line up their attack. Now obviously it is more difficult if it is a hyperdiction because of the longer cooldown, but honestly, I don't really care if I get destroyed on the one jump from my carrier to the Maelstrom system - which, in the last few attempts, has not happened in that ship.
The time I got destroyed was atually in the Titan area, because there were other players present who had angered the Titan so much it did it's blue spiel, everything aggro'd and I got blasted. On the other hand, your chances to collect a good portion of pods seem to be greater if there are other players around and you are colder than they are
. Just be aware: If you hear a scream, leave.The other thing to be aware of: Don't get greedy, know when to pull out. Yes, it's possible you have to pull out after collecting eight or ten pods. Don't assume you should be able to fill your cargo hold completely - every little helps.
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Last night I did a rescue at Combat Aftermath 7, I got away from the wreck, plotted a course and when I came back out of the Galmap I was maybe 7 km away from the wreck and as I spooled up for the, I got the notification that a thargoid had jumped in. Wondering what it was, hoping it was a single hunter, I slowly flew to the wreck... As they resolved on my scanner I could tell they were at least 3 Glaives. They didn't seem to take notice of me. I turned around and jumped out, never even got hyperdicted. I was in range for maybe 20-30 seconds, but the never acted like they saw me.
I agree, failure should always be an option... What I don't like is that if you want to do combat with the Glaives, be prepared for taking some serious damage. Also, there is no way to avoid the caustic missiles nor to mitigate the lighting attacks. Get 2-3 Glaives hitting you with lighting attacks and you can't even tell what your pips are or what fire group you have up. It's just over the top.
But I don't want it nurfed, I want better ways to deal with it. Give me a module that drops my heat signature (and make it so I'm hard to detect), maybe a class 2 optional module that lowers the heat signature, or maybe a class 1 thruster nozzle controller that increases my speed by 20%, or Salene Jean now has a new hull coating, that's replaces your armors special effect and reduces/eliminates the caustic effect. Maybe Palin has figured out how to mitigate the lighting attacks and stop the reduction of Guardian modules... And while I'm dreaming, how about a size 4 limpet controller that controls 2 limpets and stores 10 cargo/limpets? But please, no more utilities, these are over taxed now. Give us some options to better fight/run/hide against the hunters, don't just nurf them. I'm still upset at how nurfed the Scythe interception have been.
We're not saying that there shouldn't be failure. Getting to the Titan should be a challenge. However, it feels like that the difficulty feels too random, One time I've got to the maelstrom with no hyperdictions or interdictions, other times its been that crazy, my ship is in tatters when it got to the malestrom. As the Burrs said, there seems to be very little reward even if you manage to get some pods. I mean, is there a mechanic that if too many players get close, or steal escaper pods, does the Titan increases security patrols?
Don't get me wrong, I really have enjoyed the Thargoid content when I can get access to it (see my points in the OP), but there is a frustration level that makes you walk away. Players are not going to come back if the barrier is this kind of content is too high. It might be a suggestion that, now that six months have passed, making the Caustic Sink launcher as a cash purchase (maybe a cut down version) will open up this content to players .
It's certainly an expectations issue: you can't really fail at most things in ED if you know what you're doing, and even if you mess up a bit you generally have several opportunities to correct or escape before things get too bad. And historically, things which break that expectation have been treated as a bug.
Compare that with the non-space game I'm playing a lot at the moment: an old pinball simulator. If you mess up in that, you probably lose the ball. Do that three times, and that's game over, start again. After four months of practice, I'm getting to the stage where I can get out of the early game more often than not, and my scores are going up. But I still end up missing key shots in ways where I can't articulate what precisely I did wrong or differently, and there's still several of the basic shots I cannot pull off anywhere near reliably. And this is fine - I'll probably get it eventually.
In Elite Dangerous of course, there's lots of opportunity for power creep over time, in a way that a long-declared-complete singleplayer game doesn't have. The Hydra has gone from an incredibly dangerous opponent to one which - while still a threat - can routinely be dealt with by experienced players due to advances in both technology and technique.
The Titan rescues have been out less than a week: of course they're difficult [1]. In a few months people will have figured out more of the tricks, there might be some tweaks and new equipment to make it easier, and so on.
[1] Frontier basically have to start new activities off at "maximum difficulty", because making them easier over time is straightforward and making them harder over time is near-impossible. Even so, organised groups have been rescuing thousands of pods at Indra and Taranis and that's been sufficient to cause very substantial damage to those Maelstroms in the wider war - if everyone was going in and succeeding reliably at grabbing 64t a run after the first few attempts, the effect would be ridiculous.
(It's arguably more powerful than sampling as a war method, at least in certain situations, and that keeps getting called "too effective".)
Compare that with the non-space game I'm playing a lot at the moment: an old pinball simulator. If you mess up in that, you probably lose the ball. Do that three times, and that's game over, start again. After four months of practice, I'm getting to the stage where I can get out of the early game more often than not, and my scores are going up. But I still end up missing key shots in ways where I can't articulate what precisely I did wrong or differently, and there's still several of the basic shots I cannot pull off anywhere near reliably. And this is fine - I'll probably get it eventually.
In Elite Dangerous of course, there's lots of opportunity for power creep over time, in a way that a long-declared-complete singleplayer game doesn't have. The Hydra has gone from an incredibly dangerous opponent to one which - while still a threat - can routinely be dealt with by experienced players due to advances in both technology and technique.
The Titan rescues have been out less than a week: of course they're difficult [1]. In a few months people will have figured out more of the tricks, there might be some tweaks and new equipment to make it easier, and so on.
[1] Frontier basically have to start new activities off at "maximum difficulty", because making them easier over time is straightforward and making them harder over time is near-impossible. Even so, organised groups have been rescuing thousands of pods at Indra and Taranis and that's been sufficient to cause very substantial damage to those Maelstroms in the wider war - if everyone was going in and succeeding reliably at grabbing 64t a run after the first few attempts, the effect would be ridiculous.
(It's arguably more powerful than sampling as a war method, at least in certain situations, and that keeps getting called "too effective".)
I get what you mean; but "you can fail even if you do everything right" sounds dangerously close to "you shouldn't fail of you do everything right". Personally, I take random interdictions from none to constant over making it predictable.
This "there is little reward" always irks me a bit; it already did with the other thread complaining about the payout. Gamers are always driven by rewards, I get that, but I don't think something like those pod rescues should be driven by reward. It's lore / narrative driven, you're doing it "for the higher good", helping mankind and all that. To be part of the narrative.
I agree. Locking the caustic sink launchers behind materials you have to gather in the area you need the caustic sink launcher for isn't the greatest idea; I also think the Pulse Neutralizer should be buyable by cash.
I think it has got a bit harder, but I jump into the Taranis Maelstrom system from one jump away with no Thargoid presence. Taranis is the easiest to get to at about 130ls from the arrival star. I managed 51 and 23 capsules on my last two runs.
Taranis is also the most busy one, because everyone goes there - forget going there in open, unless you're out for a laugh . Rajin and Thor are pretty close too (397 and 815 ls respectively). I was doing my stuff at Indra, which is a smidge over 3k out. Still worked out fine .
. Rajin and Thor are pretty close too (397 and 815 ls respectively). I was doing my stuff at Indra, which is a smidge over 3k out. Still worked out fine .
I’ve been doing my stuff out by (Titan) Oya - other than Thargoids really loving to interdict me within the (roughly) first 1k ls, minimal player contact, and I have at least never been shot to pieces before throwing out two chambers’ worth of pods. Well, not been shot to pieces entirely to the point of losing a full pod haul. You want to talk breach drones from Scythes, though…
Amount of pods per chamber isn’t hard set to something specific, think you can get 6-9 depending on… the displayed density factor, maybe? Dunno - two successful uses(I kinda hate that subsurface minigame, especially when your HUD is intentionally glitching, and the blue bar can pass before you even see it) usually seems to result in 16 or 17 pods in the hold.
Haven’t done enough runs to determine any kind of ‘average’ quantity I come out with(by approximation, since I’m not actually noting it down). The lowest has actually been… 16, from my first run with a C4 corrosion-resistant rack to be on the safe side. Still trying to determine whether to keep with a C6 cargo or go with 32 as a medium instead - but then again, I can’t really do much of a meaningful change to the setup for more survivability or other if I did go with 32 cargo.
Anyway… please, let’s not mistake ‘challenge’ for ‘You did nothing wrong but get slapped by the game in rather arbitrary circumstances anyway’. If I was given a ship with specific weaponry and put in front of a Hydra, I wouldn’t be calling for it to be nerfed when I get slammed by it(even if it doesn’t kill me) because everything about the engagement other than ship and weapons is down to player skill.
What am I to do if Glaives, which patrol in basically every area of the Titan, just constantly notice a ship that is as close to the Titan’s surface as possible, in silent running, with no limpets active(they really do suck at stealth)? I haven’t even noticed it making much of a difference if you remain moving slowly or not at all(if you think it does, do let me know… but I’m not hitting the ‘gas’ hard unless spotted, anyway). And been spotted harder while trying to not get spotted because their detection range for a ‘hidden’ ship in that environment is, in game terms, a bit dumb.
Realistic sense? Totally. Always thought it was a bit off how you can sit right in front of a Thargoid and have it not notice, even when your ship would be plainly visible to the naked eye. Gameplay wise? I’m not so sure.
I suppose it also isn’t necessarily an activity that should be run a lot of time at once(more so than others), given the inherent risk, stress factor and whatnot. Great when the game isn’t throwing bricks at you every step of the way. But the Glaive aggro still feels a bit over the top.
(I’m not one of the people ‘doing it for the rewaed’ - the intrinstic/lore implications of the action were enough. But two ‘really terrible’[because forum filters] type of experiences were enough to make me reconsider at least half a dozen not-so-bad and actually quite fun runs because the detections just felt beyond arbitrary and out of my control entirely.)
Amount of pods per chamber isn’t hard set to something specific, think you can get 6-9 depending on… the displayed density factor, maybe? Dunno - two successful uses(I kinda hate that subsurface minigame, especially when your HUD is intentionally glitching, and the blue bar can pass before you even see it) usually seems to result in 16 or 17 pods in the hold.
Haven’t done enough runs to determine any kind of ‘average’ quantity I come out with(by approximation, since I’m not actually noting it down). The lowest has actually been… 16, from my first run with a C4 corrosion-resistant rack to be on the safe side. Still trying to determine whether to keep with a C6 cargo or go with 32 as a medium instead - but then again, I can’t really do much of a meaningful change to the setup for more survivability or other if I did go with 32 cargo.
Anyway… please, let’s not mistake ‘challenge’ for ‘You did nothing wrong but get slapped by the game in rather arbitrary circumstances anyway’. If I was given a ship with specific weaponry and put in front of a Hydra, I wouldn’t be calling for it to be nerfed when I get slammed by it(even if it doesn’t kill me) because everything about the engagement other than ship and weapons is down to player skill.
What am I to do if Glaives, which patrol in basically every area of the Titan, just constantly notice a ship that is as close to the Titan’s surface as possible, in silent running, with no limpets active(they really do suck at stealth)? I haven’t even noticed it making much of a difference if you remain moving slowly or not at all(if you think it does, do let me know… but I’m not hitting the ‘gas’ hard unless spotted, anyway). And been spotted harder while trying to not get spotted because their detection range for a ‘hidden’ ship in that environment is, in game terms, a bit dumb.
Realistic sense? Totally. Always thought it was a bit off how you can sit right in front of a Thargoid and have it not notice, even when your ship would be plainly visible to the naked eye. Gameplay wise? I’m not so sure.
I suppose it also isn’t necessarily an activity that should be run a lot of time at once(more so than others), given the inherent risk, stress factor and whatnot. Great when the game isn’t throwing bricks at you every step of the way. But the Glaive aggro still feels a bit over the top.
(I’m not one of the people ‘doing it for the rewaed’ - the intrinstic/lore implications of the action were enough. But two ‘really terrible’[because forum filters] type of experiences were enough to make me reconsider at least half a dozen not-so-bad and actually quite fun runs because the detections just felt beyond arbitrary and out of my control entirely.)
"it isn't fun, because I have to learn few things more, and it isn't as braindead easy, as RES hunting".
Instead looking at youtubers and their words I tried it myself.
Honestly, it costed me 4 rebuys but when I think about each single fail...
all of them were my fault.
Too early using TG pulse.
Stupid wasting caustic sinks
Sitting for way too long close to portal for hunters (hey, I hadn't knowledge, that they spawn here)
And finally- approaching titan from wrong direction, so when I approached I found...active hutner portal.
After it I was able to do few succesfull runs, and I don't feel, that fail/success is random. I'm so sorry, but that's my feeling.
I even was able to escape hunters with clean thrusters clipper, before he used his missiles at me.
I feel that majority of complaints have one source:
elite, generally provide very little "opportunities" for failure. And here we are, extremally dangerous, challenging enviroement which require unpopular, specific tactics, without much place for mistakes. Players were simply spoiled by quite safe game, so now any challenging scenario is shock for them.
Instead looking at youtubers and their words I tried it myself.
Honestly, it costed me 4 rebuys but when I think about each single fail...
all of them were my fault.
Too early using TG pulse.
Stupid wasting caustic sinks
Sitting for way too long close to portal for hunters (hey, I hadn't knowledge, that they spawn here)
And finally- approaching titan from wrong direction, so when I approached I found...active hutner portal.
After it I was able to do few succesfull runs, and I don't feel, that fail/success is random. I'm so sorry, but that's my feeling.
I even was able to escape hunters with clean thrusters clipper, before he used his missiles at me.
I feel that majority of complaints have one source:
elite, generally provide very little "opportunities" for failure. And here we are, extremally dangerous, challenging enviroement which require unpopular, specific tactics, without much place for mistakes. Players were simply spoiled by quite safe game, so now any challenging scenario is shock for them.
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This is where I'm at...
I've done maybe 10 or 12 dives, I acquired the 20 caustic shards within the first 5 or 6 dives but I have yet to get 1 caustic tissue sample. Usually by the time I get in there, my ship is half gone and going down quick.
I find it extremely tedious and akin to banging my head against a wall so I'm off doing other things instead...
ETA: And I'm not saying it should be nerfed or dumbed down. I take my hat off to those who can and do do it. I just choose not to as its outside the parameters of how I want to play (to relax). Its OK though as there are many other things to do in game. And I also haven't even unlocked everything else yet, after 4600+ hours.
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Nah, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that failure comes randomly, and you have no control over it. It's not skill based. It just happens.
Also, there is almost no reward for success. Some mats I have no use for. Some movement of a slider on the system map.
I just can't find much reason to do it. I did it for the novelty at first, but that's long worn off.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. Some find it fun. Many don't. Such is life.
It's not learning as in figuring stuff out - you're told what to use and what to do by galnet and outfitting, you just have to do what they tell you and try to mitigate bad luck.
Most games that feature stealth mechanics have detection meters so it feels less random. I think even some (very old) stealth fighter flight sim had something like that. Stealth while flying in space also means they can come from any angle above or below which is even harder.
Whilst yes I take your point that its part of the narrative and 'for the higher good', the gameplay still equates to 'move bar from left to right' on the grander scale.
I have largely been ignoring Elite for the past 2 weeks playing CP 2077: Phantom Liberty, and been having a fantastic time. The visual story telling and interactions with well written characters has been a real tonic after the shallow, and limited nature of the narrative in Elite. (YMMV obviously)
Perhaps in Elite the 'save the pod people' story schtick requires more suspension of disbelief than I'm capable of! In which case I fully admit that's a failure of imagination on my part
I for one am partly doing it because I’m interested in whether the Thargoids messed with anyone that is in those pods. Saving those who are not converted(or not being influenced/controlled by the Thargoids) is… a bonus, if an entirely welcome one. The reasons why are largely RP-based… a strong hint toward which you might find in my signature.
Minor update - recovered 46 pods on a latest run just now. Was primarily forced to abandon it because Scythes began to roam the area, and one of them launched a breach drone(assume it did, as there was a missile warning with no visible missile sensor contact), prompting me to hastily abandon the area before I lost any.
All for the better, since that apparently also drew the attention of two Glaives, well, at least enough for them to try closing within solid detection distance of my ship. Not fast enough to prevent me from slipping away.
(And I heard a ‘repair limpet failed’ notice from COVAS as I jumped out - seems like someone else got into some trouble just as I took my score and ran with it. Mildly amusing for me, probably not so much for the player.)
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rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
I've also noticed traversing around Titans is more difficult now. Especially with other players around, the Goids just seem to "knew" where I was, despite constant Silent Running.
What I have also noticed is that upon arrival to the Maelstrom, you're being sucked much deeper into the cloud, where you start getting caustic damage straight away. Additionally, but this is purely observational so potentially a placebo, caustic seems to be doing MUCH more damage than before. And Glaives seem much more aggressive thatn they used to be (again, may be placebo).
While being alone at the Titan I was actually able to stay invisible in Silent Running, as soon as you get the pods out they send a patrol over your way - which is understandable. But once discovered, even if I manage to run away, the Goids seem to just magically know where I am from then on.
I did find it over the top to be honest, especially with other players in the instance, which just made me go Solo mode. I have a feeling that FDEV cranked a few sliders a bit too far to the right
I'm with you on this. It will be interesting to see what FDev do with the pod people, how/if they move the narrative and if that translates into any new gameplay (dare I whisper it...on-foot content?). We only have a week to wait for U17, so fingers crossed.
Today’s GalNet of “Yeah they’re apparently fine, but we’ll keep them under observation to be sure” feels… well, it’s just too easy. I have my doubts all of those recovered pods are containing perfectly fine and healthy people. Well, they might be fine and healthy, just not necessarily how we expect.
And with potentially millions on each Titan, most of those stuck there for over a year now… let’s just say, my bets are not on a ‘human preservation program’.