I'm genuinely impressed by all the people here rooting for keeping the grind long or even make it longer. To you who want that, would you enjoy having to regrind everything all over again? To grind faction ranks to unlock the ships, to grind the materials for the small bonuses it provides? I think the game is grindy enough as it is to allow for easier ways to get an engineered ship, since a lot of players don't have the time to put into grinding everything and learning about the optimal grind strategies. I thought it was clear from F2P games that making players do repetitive tasks for small increases in stats is the ultimate toxic gameplay loop, since it makes for loads of time wasted and very few enjoyment.
Regarding ship engineering? Most of the experienced players on these forums have more than one account. So yes?
Like most games that have progression, once you have done it once it is quite easy the 2nd time.
The "grind" is particularly bad for players that focus on grinding, rather than playing the game. For example, a player with low combat rank that puts huge time into a mindless grind to G5 engineer a mediocre combat ship.... instead of putting that time into slaughtering bad guys to increase there skill, gain credits & mats from mission rewards, and increase their rank so they get higher ranked NPCs to kill with better rewards, while learning what weapon combo on their amazing NPC murder boat works best... well you get the idea.
Driving around in circles in your SRV picking up scraps. Or stack missions and slaughter NPC pirates. Or take an easy engineered exploration ship into deep space. You make the choice. Fundamentally all the activities in this game are repetitious.
If none of these options sound good, then probably the wrong game for you.
Like most games that have progression, once you have done it once it is quite easy the 2nd time.
The "grind" is particularly bad for players that focus on grinding, rather than playing the game. For example, a player with low combat rank that puts huge time into a mindless grind to G5 engineer a mediocre combat ship.... instead of putting that time into slaughtering bad guys to increase there skill, gain credits & mats from mission rewards, and increase their rank so they get higher ranked NPCs to kill with better rewards, while learning what weapon combo on their amazing NPC murder boat works best... well you get the idea.
Driving around in circles in your SRV picking up scraps. Or stack missions and slaughter NPC pirates. Or take an easy engineered exploration ship into deep space. You make the choice. Fundamentally all the activities in this game are repetitious.
If none of these options sound good, then probably the wrong game for you.
Grinding out engineering on a second account isn't the same fun experience as levelling up a second character in a RPG, it's just a grind.
This is partly due to the openness of the game and how the engineering is structured and how it's not a gradual thing where the gameplay is strictly tied to the function/role(s) you're engineering the ship for. In that respect the old engineering system was more interesting.
All the other mechanics like waiting/paying for ship transfers and having to look for stations that sell a specific module (unless you're already Elite and have access to Shinrarta) just passively make things worse - the reward for knowing the right way of doing all those things and planning it isn't a satisfying experience it's just being able to avoid some of the boring bits.
In RPGs you might get a lucky drop during levelling that changes the way you play the early game due to how powerful it is and that could result in adopting a playstyle you didn't intend on. In Elite you might stumble upon a lucky HGE or two on your way to doing other things but the optimal way to do things won't change (a rare exception would be CGs that award good weapons, but it's going to be hard to compete in those without already being set up in the game since one weapon from 75% tier won't drastically affect your build while two might). It's actually slightly better with the random pre-engineered suits in odyssey.
This is partly due to the openness of the game and how the engineering is structured and how it's not a gradual thing where the gameplay is strictly tied to the function/role(s) you're engineering the ship for. In that respect the old engineering system was more interesting.
All the other mechanics like waiting/paying for ship transfers and having to look for stations that sell a specific module (unless you're already Elite and have access to Shinrarta) just passively make things worse - the reward for knowing the right way of doing all those things and planning it isn't a satisfying experience it's just being able to avoid some of the boring bits.
In RPGs you might get a lucky drop during levelling that changes the way you play the early game due to how powerful it is and that could result in adopting a playstyle you didn't intend on. In Elite you might stumble upon a lucky HGE or two on your way to doing other things but the optimal way to do things won't change (a rare exception would be CGs that award good weapons, but it's going to be hard to compete in those without already being set up in the game since one weapon from 75% tier won't drastically affect your build while two might). It's actually slightly better with the random pre-engineered suits in odyssey.
Every game ever released requires a grind, but its not called a grind its called progression.
Unlocking all the engineers and getting materials would take what? 2 months? that's really nothing, come join me in Everquest.
O7
I would see no difference, because only think which I "grinded" was fed rank, and I did it in max 3 days.
Everything other come from playing damn game, not grinding
. Actually, even fed rank was nothing more than doing trade missions, but in new systems. You know, same missions which you could do in Sol, or Achenar, or Nu, San Tu, hip 10591 or hd 1491I know, crazy idea, playing game and doing stuff, instead grinding fancy 20 G5 mats to max your thrusters to get this sweat 555m/s instead weak and stupid 554.
Also, I'm happy, that you asked about grind, which give small bonuses- my asnwer is: if bonus is to small, I simply ignore this upgrade. You know, effort/benefit ratio. There is no point in grinding to max possible values.
But still sometimes I'm doing it, cause I have nothing to do with this tons of G5 materials which come from mission rewards, trade, and tougher pirates.
But I'm doing it, because I have more mats than I need. Not because game "force" me into grind.
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There is no grind but what we make.
Honestly the game can be played without engineering*. Minimal engineering will get you a better FSD which is what is most really useful.
If you want more, you have to work for it and not complain about the journey.
* PvP can be done without engineering if the parties agree to limits.
Steve
Honestly the game can be played without engineering*. Minimal engineering will get you a better FSD which is what is most really useful.
If you want more, you have to work for it and not complain about the journey.
* PvP can be done without engineering if the parties agree to limits.
Steve
But having a better ship is more fun. While engineering is pretty stale and has a limited number of mods and experimentals that see actual use the game would be less fun with the ship building only being limited to outfitting. I wouldn't suggest anyone play the game without engineering.
How would a new player doing engineering know that the bonus is too small to bother with?
It's not optional when you want to enjoy combat and the game decides to spawn hardened NPC on you.
Progression is when you develop a character, make choices and unlock newabilities. Acquiring new gear is just that: Loot grind.
Here's an idea - and bear with me here because it's a very difficult concept for many people to grasp:
Just play the game. The materials will come.
If you get to a point you're so frustrated with it that you're not only complaining all over Discord over it, you come here to complain as well, maybe this just isn't the game for you.
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There is no grind unless YOU make it one.
You see, most of us just play the game for the sheer joy of playing the game. Many people create multiple accounts, buying the game over and over and doing the same exact thing but in different ways just for the sheer joy of doing it.
People that cry about "grind" are typically very impatient people with the attention span of a gnat. They want instant gratification and if they can't get it they blame everything and everybody else over it.
Not surprisingly, those turn out to be the very same people that complain when a game is too easy and they beat it very quickly. Then they're on the forums complaining they should get a refund, that it wasn't worth it, that it didn't last long enough, etc.
Like the old saying goes: you can please some of the people some of the time, but you'll never please all of the people all of the time.
Game developers like FDev want customers for the long haul. That's how they continue to make money with skins, sounds, etc.
You want instant gratification and instant access to end game content? Then this simply is not the game for you.
Is it? That may be your perception, but may not be that of the others..
Steve
instead spamming 19502 upgrades without any attention he could check specs after each roll, know, crazy. Paying attention on benefits from paying
It can be once time lesson, but no, better start with relofarm to grab 200 mats, after it grind money, after it rank, and after it just do 100% G5 ship in 1 session.
And after it complain on grind
It was my last message to you, because I feel, that here is no point. You simply arent able to understand few fundamental facts. So enjoy complaining, I will enjoy with playing game, think that it is good deal.
@Darrack and @SteveWW57: Seven years. Just sayin'.
And that's why propping up your guns with engineering isn't optional as some would want us make believe.
Many of the engineered stats aren't clear and the only reason we know how they work are because people did meticulous testing - take heat efficiency or min/max/optimum mass for thrusters. The best (and most fun) way to do things is to engineer it and test it to see if it works (not encouraged in elite because of the grind and no even partial refunds on it). There's even rare cases where you want lower levels engineering to meet power requirements or have a fully optimized build.instead spamming 19502 upgrades without any attention he could check specs after each roll, know, crazy. Paying attention on benefits from paying
It can be once time lesson, but no, better start with relofarm to grab 200 mats, after it grind money, after it rank, and after it just do 100% G5 ship in 1 session.
And after it complain on grind
Beyond that there are games that are entirely based on stacking small 1-2% gains until you're an invincible death machine and it's somewhat fair to come in with the expectation that getting stuff to grade 5 will be rewarded enough to be desirable. This isn't the problem as people already want their stuff to be G5 and the people advocating for G3 are just telling people to avoid the bad engineering system as much as possible. It's not bad advice but it doesn't solve the problem that FDev should solve, perhaps with some sort of engineering overhaul.
Presumably a cmdr can increase their combat skill as they raise their combat rank. Also as they raise their combat rank they should be able to acquire credits and materials. Of course you know this.
Does a cmdr ranked combat Novice need G5 engineered guns? Or any engineered guns at all? By the time they reach Deadly have they not acquired... anything? Skill? Credits? Unlocked... anything? At this point they have slaughtered a couple thousand NPC. Have they gained nothing?
I was already deadly when engineers dropped.
That's not entirely accurate.
Exhibit A is engineering a power plant for use in Thargoid Titan systems. Most just blindly take it to G5 without considering that you don't really need it. Mine is at G3 only because it gives me more than enough power and runs cool enough (at 16) that I don't need to waste the materials on any further engineering.
The same applies to my Krait Phantom exploration ship. Most of it is not fully engineered because it doesn't give me any real additional benefit. It's a waste of materials to max out my shield generator because I'll never take the ship into combat. I need just enough to prevent a catastrophe from stupidity and that's it.
That's the science of engineering: using what you need, not necessarily what is popular.
To wit:
The optimist says the glass is half full.
The pessimist says the glass is half empty.
The engineer says the glass is exactly twice as large as it needs to be.