General Easy fix to the engineering material grind

[ethelred]

I'd prefer that instead of making more mats available per er.. "run" for want of a better word, there were harder more skill based activities to give higher rewards .

So you can get the same mats killing a bazillion rats for example, but you get more doing skill based activity X or Y.

I don't think that's making the game easier.

 

[ubermick]

Fdev should just double the relog time for every relog. 'encourage' people to play the game rather than game the game. For the players own good.

They already tried it, and didn't work. Used to be that just going to the main menu would respawn a HGE instance, and to discourage relogging they made it so people had to fully log out. All that did was make people go "waaah, Fronteer made teh grind werse!!" Same thing with crashed satellites in Odyssey.

I suspect that if Frontier were somehow able to engineer HGEs so that you had to log out, shut down your PC, ring the power company to disconnect your electricity for 24 hours, do a full drive wipe and a reinstall of Windows and the game, people would still do that rather than just play the game organically and discover that you don't need fully G5'd everything.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I could reiterate all the methods one could employ to gather engineering materials while simply playing the game, but the instant gratification crowd usually ignores those methods because "Queen" (I want it all, and I want it now). While I agree that building a base stock is a challenge for a new player (but not impossible), once you've reached a certain routine in the game, acquiring engineering materials is only a problem if you want to engineer a ship (or worse, multiple) from zero to hero in one go. Or if you're fixated on one activity, preferably one that requires all things G5 (PvP), an refuse to do anything else.

What I do reiterate is this: The last time I relogged for any materials or data was years ago. My data bins are flowing over, raw materials are trivially easy to acquire, and I get all my manufactured materials from normal gameplay (mission rewards). I hardly ever run into the situation where I cannot at least partly do the engineering I want to do. And remember kids: Full G5 rolls are a myth. It's a fairy tail completionists tell their kids as bed time stories when they want them to grow up to be a grindlord.

 

[Factabulous]

Ah, but as others have pointed out - it's also those who use synthesis because they're not good at cost / benefit analysis.

Like the one above synthing ammo because they can't be bothered to re-arm. Probably some those 'why can't I plot a route with jumponium' posts are ppl who synth for every jump. And it must be hell mining when you choose to synth limpets 4 at a time ...

 

[Hellrider]

Easy fix, but on side of players, not devs:
Gather them when you can. Even if you don't need them, but you see opportunity for it
Example I see 10 mission signals, cause I stacked assasinations, and 2 HGEs.
What would do average joe?

 

[Factabulous]

They can't do that - because that is playing the game. I expect they also never take mats from mission because 'it was less credits'

 

[aRJay]

Increase the drop rate of materials and the activities they drop from, you get no materials from asteroid core mining or planet scanning for example and that is a huge missed opportunity

Another suggestion is to make every engineering grade only require a single roll to 100%, just like experimental effects already are, making engineering use a lot less materials and be predictable

Take a mining laser along and use that on the core rock before you blow it up or on any other rocks around to get mats.

Or just make everything G5 engineered to start with and really make it pointless.

I like how you, or the two people before you, didn't even respond to the best method to get manufactured materials being restarting the game at HGEs or relogging at crashed cobra for encoded mats, what's your solution to those questionable game design choices?

For HGEs I just go to the next location in the system and when I run out of HGEs visit the other emissions sources, re logging them just seems so lazy and a waste of a chance to do more ship flying.
While I have re logged at some of the various crash sites etc. in the past I mostly just scan stuff as I fly around and visit a materials trader when I run out of storage nowadays.

Fdev should just double the relog time for every relog. 'encourage' people to play the game rather than game the game. For the players own good.

As long as the system can distinguish between re logging due to a crash and a deliberate act that would be fine.

 

[Hellrider]

HGE game restarting, crashed cobra relogging, what's your response to those being the best methods to get materials?

Removing them . Each player can spawn instance with materials only once, so if joe want to scan datapoint around cobra- he will need another player, which will create new, fresh instance with pylons to scan.
Relogfarm is so stupidly effective, that there is no "legit" way to make it faster than relogs.
If I can do few relogs per minute gathering it faster by example missions would require...Idk, 100 materials per mission as reward?
So it's completely up to you, you can play stupid reloggame and win stupid relogprizes, or play game, accumulate your bins as byproduct of making different loops and upgrade your gear gradually, instead "from zero to hero" with 40 modules at once.
It's not our fault, that you are spoiled by farming 100 G5 mats in few minutes

 

[ubermick]

I could reiterate all the methods one could employ to gather engineering materials while simply playing the game, but the instant gratification crowd usually ignores those methods because "Queen" (I want it all, and I want it now). While I agree that building a base stock is a challenge for a new player (but not impossible), once you've reached a certain routine in the game, acquiring engineering materials is only a problem if you want to engineer a ship (or worse, multiple) from zero to hero in one go. Or if you're fixated on one activity, preferably one that requires all things G5 (PvP), an refuse to do anything else.

What I do reiterate is this: The last time I relogged for any materials or data was years ago. My data bins are flowing over, raw materials are trivially easy to acquire, and I get all my manufactured materials from normal gameplay (mission rewards). I hardly ever run into the situation where I cannot at least partly do the engineering I want to do. And remember kids: Full G5 rolls are a myth. It's a fairy tail completionists tell their kids as bed time stories when they want them to grow up to be a grindlord.

So I've taken a break from playing with the main account, and decided to finally make use of my alt, who is basically starting from zero.

Been running missions out of Sol for a bit of Federal (ugh!) rank, varying them to keep it fun. Bit of courier work, some assassinations, bit of covert stuff here and there, all using a Python with all multis and a wake scanner. Leaving the stations I'll take the 30 seconds or so to buzz about scanning wakes, and have filled my bins with the G1-G5 wake mats including the legendary datamined wake exceptions. I'll target anything in front of me while in supercruise, picked up a shedload more mats that way. Got over 50 Pharmaceutical Isolators from blowing up the dangerous/deadly Anacondas that interdict me in the higher threat missions. When I drop into a system that's in a state of some sort, I'll often scan the nav beacon and visit some High Grade Emissions if they're convenient and not out of the way. A few encoded ones too if I feel like it. Did one trip out to the shard forests (which I actually enjoy doing) and augmented here and there by visiting some of the brain tree sites. (again, actually enjoy doing)

So all in all, without having to resort to the youtuber tactics, I've been able to engineer the few ships the alt has to a reasonable degree, unlocked about half the engineers so far (only guardian unlock has been the FSD booster and shield booster), and while my mats bins aren't full to the brim but fine for another couple of ships I plan on snagging to round out the fleet. Toss in a trip up to Rackham's Peak a few weeks ago for a booze cruise which funded a carrier, and after a couple of weeks of off again on again play where I just pay attention to what I'm after and play the game normally, I'm much further along than I expected to be and - more importantly enjoyed doing it.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Removing them . Each player can spawn instance with materials only once, so if joe want to scan datapoint around cobra- he will need another player, which will create new, fresh instance with pylons to scan.

remember how they kind of removed relogging with Odyssey settlements? Remember the outrage?

 

[aRJay]

HGE game restarting, crashed cobra relogging, what's your response to those being the best methods to get materials?

They are merely faster.

Faster doesn’t always mean better.

 

[Hellrider]

this removing, which require going to cruise, instead to main menu?
Yes, and it was excellent move, but I would add here something more, maybe not "1 active settlement per player", but what if exterminated base would be empty for 20/30 minutes? XD
It wouldn't be issue for people raiding for raids, or doing missions, but for farmers, and people which milk same system with 100 players? Yes, pls, give me this salt.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I'll target anything in front of me while in supercruise, picked up a shedload more mats that way.

This is what I do. I scan every ship I encounter. EVERY ship. Combine that with the embedded firmware I get regularly from Goid missions, and I cannot remember when I ever ran short of encoded mats in years.

Did one trip out to the shard forests (which I actually enjoy doing) and augmented here and there by visiting some of the brain tree sites. (again, actually enjoy doing)

I do a trip to the shard forests around once a year. I kind of make it an event, and then I'm good on raw mats for about a year. Even with a shortish jump range (hell, take a stock DBX with an A-rated FSD, slap an SRV EDIT: AND A SCOOP! /EDIT on it and you're good)), this is doable and I would not classify it as "grind"; fly there in one session, faff around and gather your materials in a second, fly back in a third. Or do it all in one if you're up for it. I haven't tried the "new" braintree thingie yet; I didn't need to .

So all in all, without having to resort to the youtuber tactics, I've been able to engineer the few ships the alt has to a reasonable degree, unlocked about half the engineers so far (only guardian unlock has been the FSD booster and shield booster), and while my mats bins aren't full to the brim but fine for another couple of ships I plan on snagging to round out the fleet. Toss in a trip up to Rackham's Peak a few weeks ago for a booze cruise which funded a carrier, and after a couple of weeks of off again on again play where I just pay attention to what I'm after and play the game normally, I'm much further along than I expected to be and - more importantly enjoyed doing it.

This is what I'm saying. Material gathering is a problem mostly for the "But Youtube told me it is the way to do it, and also told me it's bad" people, for the instant gratification ones, and for those who see it as a PvP game only.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Taking the randomness off and just having a fixed cost per level (as Odyssey does) would be good - 1/2/3/5/10x the current per-roll cost for the grades would roughly match the current situation, since the in-grade rolling is just a holdover from the pre-3.0 model anyway and doesn't really serve any purpose now.

HGEs are just plain terrible, and high-grade manufactured materials should move to the mission reward pool and boosted rates for Deadly/Elite Bigship drops. They could then "keep" HGEs by making them Threat 4 rather than Threat 0 as a convenient way to find those Elite Bigship targets. No big deal then if people do relog them. Add a few more of the Odyssey-style cargo racks to existing POIs to give more alternatives for finding raw materials during missions, too.

Then introduce a G6 blueprint (offered by anyone who does G5) which costs 100x raw, 100x manufactured and 100x data (all at G5 rarity), and gives a 0.1% improvement over G5, so that people who insist on having the absolute best still have some grind to complain about.

 

[Darrack]

Here we go again.
You can start at zero materials and completely fill everything without relogging using the trader, its not hard, its not rocket surgery it just takes time.
Sadly some don't want to put in the effort for the rewards.

By the way engineering is optional.

O7

 

[varonica]

Rather than sitting and relogging at Dav's Hope I did a tour of the abandoned settlements, it's surprising how much stuff you collect that way, and visiting various settlements collecting logs and reading at the stories about what happened there was interesting, surprising the variety of settlements around the place, a lot of people miss many of them because they sit at Dav's Hope relogging, oh well!

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Taking the randomness off and just having a fixed cost per level (as Odyssey does) would be good - 1/2/3/5/10x the current per-roll cost for the grades would roughly match the current situation, since the in-grade rolling is just a holdover from the pre-3.0 model anyway and doesn't really serve any purpose now.

Hot take: The randomness is an illusion . This randomness is only an issue for G5 anyway; it does not really matter if G3 completes in two or three rolls. The usual I get for G1 to G4 is like 1-2-2-3 and 1-2-2-4, the worst I get it 1-2-3-4, and that's kind of rare. Not so much randomness in there.

G5 feels very random, but only if you goal is filling the circle. But that is, in most cases, completely irrelevant, because four rolls get you to 75% filled circles every time. And a 75% filled circle usually means the rest only changes the stats of your module only at the first or even second decimal place.

In reality you can calculate your material needs with a fixed amount of 1-2-3-4-4 and you'd be good, calculate with 1-2-3-4-8 and you're golden, and in most cases you'd come off better anyway - I usually roll 1-2-2-3-4 for my modules. I only roll more G5 if I am swimming in materials.

Filling the circles is irrelevant. Knowing when to stop is the key.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Hot take: The randomness is an illusion .

That's why they should take it out. (And agreed, 1-2-3-4-5 would be fine for a costs basis too)

There is one case where it matters - when you first unlock an engineer, it'll take 3-4 G1 rolls just to do that grade, because the rolls are more effective at higher rep.
But engineer rep is itself a holdover from the pre-3.0 model as well (where you could spend it for experimentals, and where you could roll G5 without first rolling G1-4) and again the Odyssey engineers don't have or need it.

Without the rep the introduction requirements for chained engineers would need amending slightly - the easiest "symmetry" would be "tell you when you make a G3 or higher module".


(I haven't engineered new modules for a while but even despite having near-full material reserves I tend to stop at G4 on new ships because the chances of me using the ship enough that I'll notice the G5 boost is minimal for most modules. Hmm. Maybe that's why I have near-full material reserves...)

 

[aRJay]

Taking the randomness off and just having a fixed cost per level (as Odyssey does) would be good - 1/2/3/5/10x the current per-roll cost for the grades would roughly match the current situation, since the in-grade rolling is just a holdover from the pre-3.0 model anyway and doesn't really serve any purpose now.

HGEs are just plain terrible, and high-grade manufactured materials should move to the mission reward pool and boosted rates for Deadly/Elite Bigship drops. They could then "keep" HGEs by making them Threat 4 rather than Threat 0 as a convenient way to find those Elite Bigship targets. No big deal then if people do relog them. Add a few more of the Odyssey-style cargo racks to existing POIs to give more alternatives for finding raw materials during missions, too.

Then introduce a G6 blueprint (offered by anyone who does G5) which costs 100x raw, 100x manufactured and 100x data (all at G5 rarity), and gives a 0.1% improvement over G5, so that people who insist on having the absolute best still have some grind to complain about.

Making stuff readily available from missions only is a bad idea, there should be alternatives for any level of player.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I think the crafting is totally overblown, unneccessarily complicated with a bloated list of ingredients, spawns too dependent on RNG and a crafting progression that works according to a nickel and diming scheme.
Half the recipes are useless and just provide to the ingredient bloat. There is a select number of very useful upgrades most players go for and is in the end just a railroad to power creep. Engineering adds nothing to the game except player hours to Frontier's balance sheet.