Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
rootsrat said:
To be honest, in terms of modding they have now launched community translations programme.

People from my community are already working on a Polish one.

Which we still don't have in Elite, community or official, despite being announced 10 years ago :p
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That's not really modding though is it.

Its more like unpaid work.

CIG are pretty good at that though. Getting people to QA their product and provide translations. Even better, people pay CIG money to do the QA!
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
Modding is in general unpaid work isn't it? As long as ppl end up with something they enjoy.

It will be interesting to see how seriously CiG take support for translators - I could see them breaking all the translations accidentally on a regular basis
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
rootsrat
Agony_Aunt said:
That's not really modding though is it.

Its more like unpaid work.

CIG are pretty good at that though. Getting people to QA their product and provide translations. Even better, people pay CIG money to do the QA!
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It is very much modding. You're modifying game files to amend the content. It's community passion work I'd say. Let's be objective and not malicious here. CIG is not the first or the last to do it.

I don't automatically assume the everything CIG does is bad. Critique where it's due and praise accordingly. I don't see enabling community to mod the game so that more people can enjoy it (questionable in this particular case lol) as a bad thing.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Factabulous said:
Modding is in general unpaid work isn't it? As long as ppl end up with something they enjoy.

It will be interesting to see how seriously CiG take support for translators - I could see them breaking all the translations accidentally on a regular basis
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If they set it up right, then its not likely to break things. For most languages its just string replacement. There can be formatting issues, especially when the devs have used fixed width or only planned for certain width text in the UI, so text overruns in places or is clipped. That can result in a lot of unintended extra work on the UI side.

Languages that run right to left can also cause additional issues.

The fun part will be Chinese. As I understand it, CIG is courting China hard now and have talked about adding Chinese language support.
 

varonica

varonica
rootsrat said:
It is very much modding. You're modifying game files to amend the content. It's community passion work I'd say. Let's be objective and not malicious here. CIG is not the first or the last to do it.
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True, and that's not surprising because modding a game often increases the length of time a game is viable to play and pulls in new players who splurge money on the base game just to play the particular mod they are interested in. As an old player of Desert Combat, a full conversion mod for BF 1942 I can see how encouraging modding is beneficial to many games, but I am a bit suspect on it working with an MMO except in the most basic sense unless that MMO fully supports player owned and run servers where the game can be run as a separate entity. Of course the problem with that is that the maker of the main game then misses out on sales of extras and micro-transactions, so it would have to be a special MMO to allow a lot of modding to the extent SP and PvP games can often do.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
rootsrat said:
It is very much modding. You're modifying game files to amend the content. It's community passion work I'd say. Let's be objective and not malicious here. CIG is not the first or the last to do it.

I don't automatically assume the everything CIG does is bad. Critique where it's due and praise accordingly. I don't see enabling community to mod the game so that more people can enjoy it (questionable in this particular case lol) as a bad thing.
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Sure, ive seen it in a few games where the community has provided translations.

But i'd argue that backers have already paid ten times over for those translations to be added. Its not like the devs have made the game on their own buck, but then said to the community, look, we don't really have the money to add all these languages, but we will open it up so people can translate the relevant files.

Most major games do provide translations into the major languages at least, and CIG is claiming to be the most major of major games ever. I think with all the funding they have, they could provide translations into many languages, and get them done by professional translators on top.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
rootsrat
varonica said:
True, and that's not surprising because modding a game often increases the length of time a game is viable to play and pulls in new players who splurge money on the base game just to play the particular mod they are interested in. As an old player of Desert Combat, a full conversion mod for BF 1942 I can see how encouraging modding is beneficial to many games, but I am a bit suspect on it working with an MMO except in the most basic sense unless that MMO fully supports player owned and run servers where the game can be run as a separate entity. Of course the problem with that is that the maker of the main game then misses out on sales of extras and micro-transactions, so it would have to be a special MMO to allow a lot of modding to the extent SP and PvP games can often do.
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Of course, it depends what kind of modding you allow. There are plenty of MMO that allow for reasonable modding of UI for example to make the game, well maybe not easier, but more pleasant to play and manage, especially at endgame.

WoW and TESO for example.

Agony_Aunt said:
Sure, ive seen it in a few games where the community has provided translations.

But i'd argue that backers have already paid ten times over for those translations to be added. Its not like the devs have made the game on their own buck, but then said to the community, look, we don't really have the money to add all these languages, but we will open it up so people can translate the relevant files.

Most major games do provide translations into the major languages at least, and CIG is claiming to be the most major of major games ever. I think with all the funding they have, they could provide translations into many languages, and get them done by professional translators on top.
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Oh I agree. But AFAIK CIG never announced translations as part of the package, but always indicated they would be community projects. So fair enough in this case imo.

Unless they announced translations and then changed their mind to be made by community. In which case - for shame!
 

varonica

varonica
rootsrat said:
Of course, it depends what kind of modding you allow. There are plenty of MMO that allow for reasonable modding of UI for example to make the game, well maybe not easier, but more pleasant to play and manage, especially at endgame.

WoW and TESO for example.
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That's what I meant by basic sense, LOTRO does that also, mods that can change the UI and sometimes even personal player looks but that don't affect the game world itself and what other players see and experience when playing with you.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
rootsrat said:
To be honest, in terms of modding they have now launched community translations programme.

People from my community are already working on a Polish one.

Which we still don't have in Elite, community or official, despite being announced 10 years ago :p
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SC is being still today sold including a promise of translation to multiple languages (not sure if Polish is one of them). That’s 11+ years of being sold with a promise to include translations. In the case of Elite the reality of translations was clear at launch, i.e. not even 1 year following language announcements. As disappointing as that was at least buyers could then freely leave poor reviews because of it, ask for a refund due to missing languages, and overall freely take a purchase decision in full knowledge that the game only had 4 languages officially supported at launch.

CIG is not only today, 11+ years and counting, still selling the game with the promise to deliver multiple languages and is still cashing in because of it, but it also has the audacity to basically ask the community to do it for them. 11+ years and 650+ millions contributed later we are still paying CIG to allow us to work for them. Yey us.
 
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fzfq3m

F
rootsrat said:
It is very much modding. You're modifying game files to amend the content.
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Now wait minute… under that definition then almost every single game out there can be considered moddable…

Further more… are you telling me that every time a software developer modify the files to amend the content of their software, then they are modding it? What is your patching then?

What’s the difference between a patch and a mod?

I was under the impression that mod comes from “module” not from “modify”, so basically a moddable software is one that has the capabilities to load “modules” that can amend the content of the game dynamically via methods/formats controlled by the developer…

Edit: This incorrect… Mod is derived from “to modify”…
 
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rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
rootsrat
Viajero said:
SC is being still today sold including a promise of translation to multiple languages (not sure if Polish is one of them). That’s 11+ years of being sold with a promise to include translations. In the case of Elite the reality of translations was clear at launch, i.e. not even 1 year following language announcements. As disappointing as that was at least buyers could then freely leave poor reviews because of it, ask for a refund due to missing languages, and overall freely take a purchase decision in full knowledge that the game only had 3 languages officially supported at launch.

CIG is not only today, 11+ years and counting, still selling the game with the promise to deliver multiple languages and is still cashing in because of it, but it also has the audacity to basically ask the community to do it for them. 11+ years and 650+ millions contributed later we are still paying CIG to allow us to work for them. Yey us.
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It was never clarified by fdev. Quite the opposite the answer, which still remains the last official stance, is "we will look into it and let you know".

Which they never did, after 10 years.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
rootsrat
fzfq3m said:
Now wait minute… under that definition then almost every single game out there can be considered moddable…

Further more… are you telling me that every time a software developer modify the files to amend the content of their software, then they are modding it? What is your patching then?

What’s the difference between a patch and a mod?

I was under the impression that mod comes from “module” not from “modify”, so basically a moddable software is one that has the capabilities to load “modules” that can amend the content of the game dynamically via methods/formats controlled by the developer…
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I'm not getting into semantic battle of what modding means, thanks but no thanks :)
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
rootsrat said:
It was never clarified by fdev. Quite the opposite the answer, which still remains the last official stance, is "we will look into it and let you know".

Which they never did, after 10 years.
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I am afraid that is a fully fair response. Not a good one but 100% fair. The key is that the product was launched officially in 2014, and we all had all elements necessary to either leave poor reviews, ask for refunds or, in the case of new buyers, take a purchase decision having all the necessary information to buy or not (only 4 languages) WYSIWYG. Unlike FDEV CIG is still frikking selling those translations 11+ years on, and we are now paying them more money to work for them.
 
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rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
rootsrat
Viajero said:
I am afraid that is a fully fair response. Not a good one but 100% fair. The key is that the product was launched officially m in 2014, and we all had al elements necessary to either leave poor reviews, ask for refunds or, in the case of new buyers, take a purchase decision having all the necessary information to buy or not (only 4 languages) WYSIWYG. Unlike FDEV CIG is still frikking selling those translations 11+ years on, and we are now paying them more money to work for them:
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It would be fair if they acted upon what they've said - or provided a clear "sorry, not gonna happen at this stage".
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
rootsrat said:
Of course, it depends what kind of modding you allow. There are plenty of MMO that allow for reasonable modding of UI for example to make the game, well maybe not easier, but more pleasant to play and manage, especially at endgame.

WoW and TESO for example.


Oh I agree. But AFAIK CIG never announced translations as part of the package, but always indicated they would be community projects. So fair enough in this case imo.

Unless they announced translations and then changed their mind to be made by community. In which case - for shame!
Click to expand...

I don't recall CIG ever talking about translations until recently.... unless they were talking about X'ian.
 
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