No Single Player offline Mode then?

[DaveB]

Dude, you really are not part of the solution, if you really wanted to help FD you would walk away for a few days, or at the very least carefully consider the tone and content of your posts.

I started this account to post on this subject because this is the only subject that I care about with regards to Elite Dangerous. I only post on this one topic because I only care about this one topic. My posts are 100% contrarian (sic) because, well I am only posting on one topic about one thing that I am not happy about.

However, I really have to give you chutzpah credit for making ad-hom attacks raging about all the ad-hom attacks

Part of the solution? I have no interest in being part of a non-existent solution. If there was a solution to be had, I'd be first in line because, personally, I wouldnt mind having a separate offline mode available. But it's out, gone, squished, ex-parrot.

Right after the newsletter came out, lots of folks started up accounts griping about the loss of offline, some of those had legitimate complaints but they all put it in terms of entitlement, like the preliminary design ideas were "promises" or something like that. Several of the more persistent negative posters on here also seized on it and jumped on the bandwagon.

If I am unjustly dismissive of others that joined the forum expressly to complain in all sincerity about this single issue, I apologize, but I would put my attitude down to those others that poisoned the well.

 

[Jonbe54]

I think he's suggesting we take a step back and think about how this issue is affecting the game as a whole, and I think it's good advice.

I'm suggesting that David and his mob stop hiding behind corporate doublespeak and actually communicate in a meaningful way with their backers - you know the people that put up the bucks? THAT is what is not only hurting this game but the very concept of kickstarter funding.

 

[Juniper]

Since you mention DRM, I presume you object to "all online" on principle. Does DB's statement that if the servers ever shut down an archive of server code and galaxy state will be released to the community ease that at all?

If not, why not?

It may not be Frontier's decision if the company is liquidated or bought over, both of which are entirely possible (as it is for all businesses).

Also, saying they'll archive it is one thing. Actually doing it is another. You must understand that David repeatedly promised that the game would be developed to support offline play. That promise is now broken. So, ask me again what I think of David Braben's promises?

At the very least - they should make good on their word right now and enter into a legal escrow agreement with the community for the server software. Unless it's written in black and white & legalese, a DB statement on the internet isn't worth the electrons it's transmitted on.

 

[Graywing]

Re: Backer's Feedback - No, but FDev have said that the feature set they have put in is based on feedback, and that has made it impractical. It's like asked for a bigger Power Unit, but then complaining there's no space to put cargo afterward.

Nice analogy. So, is there a reason why FD didn't say, "Well, you can have that bigger Power Unit, but then you won't have any cargo space left. Are you sure you want that Reactor 9000?" and instead they just crammed the new Power Unit in and when we said, "Hey, where's our cargo space?" they just replied, "Sorry, we had to make a tough call."

People are asking for refunds on goods they have already taken delivery off?

No, people are asking for a refund on goods they will never receive. Unless you know of someone selling copies of E with an offline mode, in which case please, do tell.

If I end up wasting my investment money because the minority offline group kicks up such a storm it causes the project to fold... I won't have a forum to moan about it on.

But all of us who've wasted our investment money, we should just suck it up, right?

 

[phlOgistOn]

"If a creator is absolutely unable to complete the project and fulfill rewards, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to a satisfying conclusion for their backers."

Again that's from the newer ToS

"Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.
Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
Project Creators may cancel or refund a Backer’s pledge at any time and for any reason, and if they do so, are not required to fulfill the reward."

Is the pertinent stuff from the older one that applies to ED and again hinges around whether or not this DRM-free physical copy is possible...which no-one really knows the answer to except software lawyers...which FD are probably the only ones to have actually had a proper opinion from.

https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012

 

[Herne]

I'm suggesting that David and his mob stop hiding behind corporate doublespeak and actually communicate in a meaningful way with their backers - you know the people that put up the bucks? THAT is what is not only hurting this game but the very concept of kickstarter funding.

Like he did at 4pm GMT yesterday ? seriously what more do you want ? DB didn't have to take questions, but he did, and he didn't ignore some of the more difficult ones. I suppose you won't be happy until he turns up on your doorstep asking you personally for your forgiveness

Talk about entitlement !! get over yourself already !!

 

[-c-s-]

As a point. I didn't say get your refund and go. I said "If you want to ask for refund and leave, do." You have misquoted me.

How do I feel endangered? I feel like you have pushed this issue so hard that FDev now has bad press. That affected stocks. If you continue to push, maybe there will be no game. Maybe FDev will fold. Then all of us will lose out because a minority has decided to be vocal, or even take things to the next level and go legal and spoil it for the majority of us!

So yes, I am sorry that one feature you so wanted is being dropped and I'm sorry you're disappointed, but what has happened is childish. "I'm going to push and push until they do what I say." like the child that drops on the floor in the supermarket and screams because he can't have that biscuit or bar.

We are all adults and are one group of people who want to see Elite return. The division is totally in your hands and the rest of this same group of people are being punished for it.

I will push for as long as Frontier Developments continue to hide behind the letter of the law in defiance of the grace and goodwill that their backers extended to them when they needed help crossing the finish line.

Frontier is not the victim here, it was David and Michael's decision to shaft their backers. They deserve every bit of negative press they are getting. The only way out is to sincerely apologize for their mistakes, make it right for those they have wronged, and move on.

 

[Zuikaku]

As a point. I didn't say get your refund and go. I said "If you want to ask for refund and leave, do." You have misquoted me.

How do I feel endangered? I feel like you have pushed this issue so hard that FDev now has bad press. That affected stocks. If you continue to push, maybe there will be no game. Maybe FDev will fold. Then all of us will lose out because a minority has decided to be vocal, or even take things to the next level and go legal and spoil it for the majority of us!

So yes, I am sorry that one feature you so wanted is being dropped and I'm sorry you're disappointed, but what has happened is childish. "I'm going to push and push until they do what I say." like the child that drops on the floor in the supermarket and screams because he can't have that biscuit or bar.

We are all adults and are one group of people who want to see Elite return. The division is totally in your hands and the rest of this same group of people are being punished for it.

So, basically, you aeree telling me to be quiet (shut up). Just kiddin- at least to the some degree. Personally, I'm not pushing this outside this forum. I'm not calling press, taking lawsuits. I have not even asked for refund (maybe I will based on FDs further handling of all of this). And i think this forum is the right place where I can show how dissappointed I am with their ethically doubtfull decision. And, no, I do not agree that we should be silent even on this forum. The fact is the promised something they are now not intending to deliver.

And as to childish behaviour - why do you not adress FDs for that? Sticking heads in the sand, pretending nothing happened is a childish behaviour. As is refusal to talk about that with their fans and backers. and bringing up "that is a secret" in a answer is also childish.
We are not trying to hurt them. they are hurting themselves the most. with their behaviour they are making people, their backers more and more angry and angry people are ready for anything, even trying to hurt them. FDs should have been more responsible about whole of this situation.

they shoul'd actiiually investigate how much and to how many people offline mode means. maybe right after KS. Invite people vie newsletters to vvote, make a poll. cause there are many baclkers like me that didn't post much on the forums, since I liked the way thigs were going and been hoping for my offline mod. Many backers only backed the game and never even joined forums.

So, to tell that FDs based this decision on some serious feedback with majority of backers is questionable ,especially since many backers during KS campaign specifically asked about offline mod. And they were assured that offline SP will be in.

 

[TestOmat]

Oh nice A complete Offline mode to whould open pretty much every Door for cheaters.

And Why should I even buy Elite Dangerous when I can dowload a fully Offline working version precracked for free?

The joke is on this complete useless discussion is that everyone who artificially plays
about the not comming Complete Offline mode Is that those who complainig are doing this ONLINE.
Just write a Letter or somewhat, youre just attention making.

 

[Herne]

I will push for as long as Frontier Developments continue to hide behind the letter of the law in defiance of the grace and goodwill that their backers extended to them when they needed help crossing the finish line.

Frontier is not the victim here, it was David and Michael's decision to shaft their backers. They deserve every bit of negative press they are getting. The only way out is to sincerely apologize for their mistakes, make it right for those they have wronged, and move on.

LOL and how in your opinion can they make it right ? By doing what they've said was dropped due to technical limitations ? That's been dropped, but you are right, its time to move on

 

[Gingerwig]

At least everyone has stopped talking about the "early" release date.....silver lining and all that.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Nice analogy. So, is there a reason why FD didn't say, "Well, you can have that bigger Power Unit, but then you won't have any cargo space left. Are you sure you want that Reactor 9000?" and instead they just crammed the new Power Unit in and when we said, "Hey, where's our cargo space?" they just replied, "Sorry, we had to make a tough call."



No, people are asking for a refund on goods they will never receive. Unless you know of someone selling copies of E with an offline mode, in which case please, do tell.



But all of us who've wasted our investment money, we should just suck it up, right?

Your investment money went to Elite Dangerous. That's being created. The one feature out of how many that is not being added is what percentage of your investment. What if you never played as a pirate, does all the investment in to cargo limpets mean you have wasted your investment? You invested in a product that is well on it's way to being delivered, just not as you would like it.

If you asked for a refund, would you ask for that nth percent?

The reason why FD might not have said that is called creep. Ever heard of feature creep, Server creep (I'm talking VMs. Someone out there is cringing. The rest have no clue.) There is no one feature that FDev pointed out and said this one feature is responsible. It's many. You take all those out you are going to get another bunch of backers going "I paid to have a voice and I wanted that feature in..."

Now the furore is threatening the future of Elite Dangerous and that's not on.

 

[Only]

Oh nice A complete Offline mode to whould open pretty much every Door for cheaters.

And Why should I even buy Elite Dangerous when I can dowload a fully Offline working version precracked for free?

The joke is on this complete useless discussion is that everyone who artificially plays
about the not comming Complete Offline mode Is that those who complainig are doing this ONLINE.
Just write a Letter or somewhat, youre just attention making.

You seem to be inferring people need to justify why they want offline when they clearly have an internet connection, nobody has to justify why they want offline to anyone as it was a clearly offered option before last Friday.

 

[TheValk]

That's the thing. When I say I want to play the game alone, I don't just mean I don't want to be spawn camped or ganked by some n00b spouting German insults over the intercom.

I mean I want to explore the galaxy. Me. Not me and a few thousand other guys I can't see, taking all the best opportunities before I even get there.

I mean I want to gamble the markets. Me. Not me and a few thousand other guys I can't see tilting the local markets into something unrecognizable to me just because I wasn't playing.

I mean I want to go pick up a cup of tea and being able to - oh I dunno - PAUSE THE GAME in the meanwhile.

Sweden has some of the best internet infrastructure in the world. If I fly Norweigan, I can even "sync the galactic evolution" while soaking up cosmic rays at 10 000 meters. I just don't WANT to. It's not the game I have been looking forward to for the past seventeen years, and that's sad. What's infuriating is how much this matters to me. I wish I could just shrug and say meh, I'll play something else, but what with the whole "I already paid for it" and "They DID say it would happen and now they're saying it won't", it is kind of a thorn in my side that I can't just forget about.

Sorry. flared up again.

Exactly my feelings.
I invested no cash in this project but a lot of anticipation.
The developers owe me nothing but had I been one of the early backers I would be spitting feathers too.

 

[Juniper]

Your investment money went to Elite Dangerous. That's being created.

Offline is not a feature of the game. For some, it is the game they backed. It's not being created or delivered.

That's all... carry on...

 

[Windsaw]

If you asked for a refund, would you ask for that nth percent?

Since the game becomes 100% unusable to me I would say I should be given 100% back.

 

[-c-s-]

Firstly, those are the new T&C's that only became active about 1 month ago

Secondly there's been no conclusive post stating that a DRM-free physical copy is mutually exclusive with online authentication. Seen something about MMO's not being affected by this as well as someone saying outright that the two could coexist with no problems - probably needs a software legal expert to let us know either way for sure... or as sure as the law ever is.

It is well established that an always-on requirement is DRM.

If you go down the MMO route, then Frontier has some even larger hurdles to overcome to provide relief for the backers at that reward tier -- but the outcome is the same, they can't deliver a product that they sold.

 

[Erna Jedermann]

Offline is not a feature of the game. For some, it is the game they backed. It's not being created or delivered.

That's all... carry on...

And for them is Multiplayer an feature .....

 

[TestOmat]

Oh nice A complete Offline mode to whould open pretty much every Door for cheaters.

And Why should I even buy Elite Dangerous when I can dowload a fully Offline working version precracked for free?

The joke is on this complete useless discussion is that everyone who artificially plays
about the not comming Complete Offline mode Is that those who complainig are doing this ONLINE.
Just write a Letter or somewhat, youre just attention making.

You seem to be inferring people need to justify why they want offline when they clearly have an internet connection, nobody has to justify why they want offline to anyone as it was a clearly offered option before last Friday.

No that is absolutely the point.
On the other hand the possebility that anyone who not even got any order from ED can complain about this in an Open Forum from a Closed Beta.

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

3. always online means it is DRM -> Discussion about wether it is or not and what DRM actually means, accompanied by many other examples of past games

Depends.

1. If they allow multiple commanders, but enforce that only one machine can be logged into an account playing one commander, then that could be called DRM.
2. If they allow multiple machines logged in on one account to multiple commanders, then that is "no DRM".
3. If the game only implements a single commander per account, then I don't think it can be called DRM, it's just the way the game is built.