Ships Ship build for noob combat?

[Kayvan]

So you just taxi to the area and call the combat ship?

Before I had a carrier, yes, I just used my Phantom (or DBX or Asp...) to get to the target system and have the combat ship brought by ferry. At least when it was more than 2 jumps or so with the fighter, I'm lazy that way. Then I'd just leave the fighter in that system and fly elsewhere to do other things with other ships, and return when I was in the mood for PVE again. Right now I have most of my PVE ships stationed in one system that works well for pirate massacre missions, while my carrier is usually on the thargoid frontline.

Also, the dirty drives added agility but +30% heat -- but Thermal Spread effect lowers that to +17%. Just so I can learn, why is that a bad idea? The Drag effect bumps it to +43%.

Thanks!

See my long post about heat mechanics in post #26 https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/ship-build-for-noob-combat.622936/post-10313131
Those big looking numbers only apply to the thruster heat; applied to the entire ship it's just a spread of 5% tops. You can play around in EDSY and see what I mean.

Running cold to avoid detection is (reputedly) an issue for fighting Thargoids - but I'd go to AXI for optimized builds there.

It is. Generally your ship becomes hard to detect, lock on and scan when it's below 20% heat and has no shields up. This also works against human / NPC ships but it's more crucial against Goids bc these have really brutal firepower. So to fight aliens effectively you need a specialized build, but still you use dirty drag drives on those because speed and agility are also super important. We don*t really care about the resting heat, we just use the TV beam you mentioned and heat sinks to remain untrackable to the goids.

Only point where I actually optimized a ship to run super cold was when I had to farm maelstroms for corrosive materials. There I did use a Clipper with low emissions PP and clean thermal spread drives, so I was able to fly around merrily right under the sentries' proboscides at 19% heat, them being none the wiser. ^^

 

[jmatt]

• Banks back engineering components for unlocking engineers.

Not sure what you mean by this? Banks?

 

[AEBRAM]

Heat in a combat ship is usually not the issue - striking power and agility are. If you can balance your power consumption, you will (for most ships) be able to get away with an armoured PP (which adds some thermal improvements and increased power, too). If your loadout relies on hot weapons or on SCBs, you can counter that with thermal vent lasers and/or heat sinks. Running cold to avoid detection is (reputedly) an issue for fighting Thargoids - but I'd go to AXI for optimized builds there.
That doesn't mean that it isn't fun to poke unsuspecting NPCs from a cold ship - but I wouldn't use a Viper for that, my cold pirate is built on a DBX.
Also, the power for the weapons is only required when the weapons are deployed - so if you work with the power priorities, you can have the system automatically swtch off modules that you don't need during combat, like:

• fuel scoop: only active during supercruise in any case. And essentially unnecessary in a combat ship, that space is better used for a shield booster or armour.
• interdictor: likewise, only used in SC
• cargo hatch and limpet controllers: if you go into combat to collect mats, you're unlikely to do so while shooting
• Guardian FSD booster: unless you need (for whatever reasons) the booster to reach the nearest system, you won't need it in or running from combat
• life support: with an A-rated life support, you get 25 minutes running on reserve. Good enough for a joust, and often good enough for a complete outing
• FSD: problematic. If you choose to run, you'll need to wait for the full FSD boot time after stowing your weapons before you can wake out. You can mitigate that somewhat by engineering for "faster boot sequence"

I would also chime in about thermal load management. Do not underestimate the 'coolness' that Armored and Thermal Spread power plants have. You can volley high heat weapons all day long and never run into critical heat problems nor have the need to waste a utility module on Heatsinks.

The rate of thermal dissipation with these two blueprints is pretty reliable. This is where weapon grouping into thermal loads allows you to break the thermal load per shot down without cooking your ship by tethering them into one fire group.

 

[AEBRAM]

Not sure what you mean by this? Banks?

Figure of speech, sorry.

Gathering more than you need (at the moment) and build up your inventory on the different material types saves time later. Collecting engineering materials is probably the most boring and frustrating part of the game: the log in/out to respawn material drops or the log completely in/out when farming High Encoded signal sources. Spending the time then, whether over a session or two, is worthwhile.

I also know too many players that just do the minimum when their grinding engineering materials. Then, they often find themselves back at the same place doing the minimum again when you can literally watch TV or chat on the phone while doing the log in/out sessions and cap out on what's offered.

 

[jmatt]

Collecting engineering materials is probably the most boring and frustrating part of the game: the log in/out to respawn material drops or the log completely in/out when farming High Encoded signal sources. Spending the time then, whether over a session or two, is worthwhile.

That's how I see it. People were warning me not to 'ruin' the game by trying to wildly overstock on mats which could make things boring going forward. But by the same token I didn't wanna have to run around all over the place for days every time I wanted to engineer something. Both arguments have a point and I tried to strike a balance.

 

[Kayvan]

Yeah, sometimes the sweet spot is to just take what you can easily get and not force it. For instance, at the current "meta" spot to farm Selenium, you can get around 74 units by harvesting the whole brain tree orchard. Relogging doesn't help afaik, it just needs time to respawn. So instead of traveling ever further out or trying to spot other patches on that planet, I recommend just to leave it at that and go home with your half-full bin of selenium. It will be enough to pimp out quite a few ships anyway.

 

[Kalizandra]

The best pve combat ship will always be the one you are most comfortable to fly, and that is mostly down to your skill level as a pilot.
Something I think that many folks forget when they give advice etc.
For all things there is a skill spectrum, for example in elite your ability to fly your ship is based on hand eye coordination, 3d visualisation, reaction speed, tactical/strategic thinking etc.
Now whilst practice does improve ones abilities somewhat, there will be a point we all reach our personal skill ceiling. Its the difference between a Sunday league pub football team player, a semi pro, a professional footballer and then at the top your Messi/Haarlands/Ronaldos etc.

Be aware that those folks advocating the Chieftain/FDL etc tend to be above average pilots, who can leverage those ships twitchy flight profile to achieve awesome results.
An Anaconda might be slow and soild in comparison but it makes for a very stable weapons platform that is very forgiving for those pilots who prefer less 'squirrely' flight handling. (My personal fav is the Corvette: for when you absolutely have to kill every last MF in the CZ-to paraphrase a film!)
I guess what I'm trying to say is judge your own personal skill ceiling/what you prefer and choose accordingly. One of the joys of Elite is the ability to eventually have a whole carrier of ships to fly. Do I prefer big ships for the tankiness and forgiving nature: Yes! Do I also enjoy flying the FDL occasionally even tho I cannot get the best out of it: Yes!

Good Luck and I hope you have fun! x

 

[Kayvan]

Good and valid points. This reminds me of another aspect: your input devices. Both your experience and applicable techniques vary widely depending on whether you are using keyboard+mouse, gamepad, a simple joystick, a dedicated flight stick, or HOTAS setup, or (like me) dual sticks.

Actually some of the most successful pilots use K+M, it's not at all an inferior poor-man's choice. It allows for very precise maneuvering, and works great with rail- or gauss guns. In fact, to get rails/gauss to work properly with a joystick you'll probably need to meticulously set up curves. Something I am just too lazy and impatient to do.
This especially extends to flying with Flight Assist Off. It seems to be easier to gain proficiency with this skill using K+M, and getting successively harder the more simulative your control setup is. And this again has a direct impact on a player's experiences with individual ships. For instance, a Viper MkIV handles like a paralyzed slug covered in concrete with FA On but becomes quite agile with FA Off.

Personally though I won't be caught dead flying a spaceship in a space sim with anything other than a flight stick. ^^

 

[tolm]

The best pve combat ship will always be the one you are most comfortable to fly, and that is mostly down to your skill level as a pilot.
Something I think that many folks forget when they give advice etc.
For all things there is a skill spectrum, for example in elite your ability to fly your ship is based on hand eye coordination, 3d visualisation, reaction speed, tactical/strategic thinking etc.
Now whilst practice does improve ones abilities somewhat, there will be a point we all reach our personal skill ceiling. Its the difference between a Sunday league pub football team player, a semi pro, a professional footballer and then at the top your Messi/Haarlands/Ronaldos etc.

Be aware that those folks advocating the Chieftain/FDL etc tend to be above average pilots, who can leverage those ships twitchy flight profile to achieve awesome results.
An Anaconda might be slow and soild in comparison but it makes for a very stable weapons platform that is very forgiving for those pilots who prefer less 'squirrely' flight handling. (My personal fav is the Corvette: for when you absolutely have to kill every last MF in the CZ-to paraphrase a film!)
I guess what I'm trying to say is judge your own personal skill ceiling/what you prefer and choose accordingly. One of the joys of Elite is the ability to eventually have a whole carrier of ships to fly. Do I prefer big ships for the tankiness and forgiving nature: Yes! Do I also enjoy flying the FDL occasionally even tho I cannot get the best out of it: Yes!

Good Luck and I hope you have fun! x

Ha ha … I advocated for a Chieftain but would very much not consider myself an above average pilot!

I actually don’t like the Chieftain’s cockpit that much but it’s hard to argue with the stats and, for me, 1000MJ of BiWeave shields along with better speed and agility than 99% of ships I will face is precisely what I need to make up for my lack of skill!!

(Ain‘t no FA-Off heroics happening when I’m flying …)

I prefer flying a similarly spec’d FAS or Mamba but the FAS is objectively worse on firepower and the Mamba on agility. Mamba is very fast though - you can run from any fight if you need to - and a big C4 MC chews through hull like nothing else …

Corvette can be a good choice but I get hit far more in my ‘vette than when flying a medium ship so you need big shields … it’s expensive if it all goes wrong … and you don’t have enough speed to outrun anything …

 

[Kalizandra]

Ha ha … I advocated for a Chieftain but would very much not consider myself an above average pilot!

I actually don’t like the Chieftain’s cockpit that much but it’s hard to argue with the stats and, for me, 1000MJ of BiWeave shields along with better speed and agility than 99% of ships I will face is precisely what I need to make up for my lack of skill!!

(Ain‘t no FA-Off heroics happening when I’m flying …)

I prefer flying a similarly spec’d FAS or Mamba but the FAS is objectively worse on firepower and the Mamba on agility. Mamba is very fast though - you can run from any fight if you need to - and a big C4 MC chews through hull like nothing else …

Corvette can be a good choice but I get hit far more in my ‘vette than when flying a medium ship so you need big shields … it’s expensive if it all goes wrong … and you don’t have enough speed to outrun anything …

Haha I feel you! My Corvette has 3000 shields and 7400 hull (iirc) and I need that buffer to also make up for my dodgy flying! Although those Spec ops lads/lasses can really chew through your hull if you are not careful!

 

[AEBRAM]

That's how I see it. People were warning me not to 'ruin' the game by trying to wildly overstock on mats which could make things boring going forward. But by the same token I didn't wanna have to run around all over the place for days every time I wanted to engineer something. Both arguments have a point and I tried to strike a balance.

I could understand the self-accomplishment for not overstocking to the as needed errands for engineering materials. However, the pro-argument for overstocking allows the players to maximize the benefits of pinned blueprints to upgrade new ships or modify current ships.

For example, deciding the cruise out to Colonia and deciding to stay in this outskirts pocket Bubble of "civilization" and learning the only engineers available become unlocked after unlocking the Bubble engineers, and there are limited farming nodes in the area for engineering materials. Having a stockpile of engineering materials provides the freedom to purchase a ship in the Colonia systems and upgrade your purchase on location without having the inconvenience to jump the 25k LY for materials that you lacked and cannot find easily there.

For example, the minor engineering tweaks you may want on non-combat ship roles to improve their performance. Want an armed Cargo Hauler? Well, this means you will want to engineer the ship's core, optional, utility and hardpoint modules to have the edge to defeat a pirate ship on a 1v1 scenario when interdicted. Do you have a friend online were you both like shaking it up in RES or CZ zones? You may find yourself experimenting on different ship build ideas and this costs engineering materials on top of the credits.

There are numerous reasons where stockpiling has its advantages. I know players who want to change or update their ships but are discouraged because their turned off from doing the grind each, and every, time for engineering materials. Especially, when they have to jump 500=750 LYrs from the systems their active in and around. They often say, darn, I should have spent the time when I was there to overstock.

 

[tolm]

Haha I feel you! My Corvette has 3000 shields and 7400 hull (iirc) and I need that buffer to also make up for my dodgy flying! Although those Spec ops lads/lasses can really chew through your hull if you are not careful!

Wowsers … that’s some serious hull. I’m assuming Prismatics + copious engineered HRPs?

I’m running a BiWeave / Guardian SRM setup so have about 3k of each. Seems to work reasonably well.

 

[AEBRAM]

Wowsers … that’s some serious hull. I’m assuming Prismatics + copious engineered HRPs?

I’m running a BiWeave / Guardian SRM setup so have about 3k of each. Seems to work reasonably well.

Impressive tank-y accomplishment on the Corvette
After helping 6+ new players get started in Elite - from feeding them credits to move upward out of their Sidewinder to solving puzzles at Guardian Structures - the best ship remains to be the Python - and this comes from personal experience while these new players tease out their fun factor in Elite. This ship can be engineered to be equally tank-y sporting 3x Large and 2x Medium hardpoints. On the flip side, the Python has the best maximum cargo capacity of the medium ships and the optional internal space for mining and moving passengers in the Bubble. The -10% sell of the ship's base cost is trivial when they, or anyone, finds their fun factor going forward in Elite and finds their new ship that "speaks to them" as their new "avatar" in the dark.

 

[tolm]

Impressive tank-y accomplishment on the Corvette
After helping 6+ new players get started in Elite - from feeding them credits to move upward out of their Sidewinder to solving puzzles at Guardian Structures - the best ship remains to be the Python - and this comes from personal experience while these new players tease out their fun factor in Elite. This ship can be engineered to be equally tank-y sporting 3x Large and 2x Medium hardpoints. On the flip side, the Python has the best maximum cargo capacity of the medium ships and the optional internal space for mining and moving passengers in the Bubble. The -10% sell of the ship's base cost is trivial when they, or anyone, finds their fun factor going forward in Elite and finds their new ship that "speaks to them" as their new "avatar" in the dark.

I prefer the Krait MkII but it does lose a little cargo space to the Python, for sure. If the new Python Mk II has a centre pilots seat, though, that could change …

TBH, my builds tend to skip cargo (and passenger) capability these days since you can build something that can do almost everything else (save for AX) quite happily: salvage, scanning (planetary and megaship including limpet based), data courier, assassination, HazRES … even light CZs … gives you lots of flexibility to pick up a mix of missions without constantly needed to transfer ships about.

 

[jmatt]

Ready to give this a whirl. Took the ship out for a spin. Lasers would fire but the MC would not. I assume they need a target, yes?

Do I need to scan pirates before engaging? Which scanner? I know bounties need a kill warrant scanner, do pirates?

I'm assuming I'll head out to a nav beacon looking for trouble. Went to the one near Jameson and it was all quiet... I assume from the high security state. Should I be looking for something less secure? Low? Do anarchy systems have nav beacons?

 

[AlSki]

Lasers would fire but the MC would not. I assume they need a target, yes?

No. You can fire MCs at absolutely nothing. However unlike the laser, which is instantly releasing a stored charge, the MCs take a half second to spin up before letting lose. Just try holding the fire button for the correct fire group. If still no joy,

• Check they are assigned to a firegroup - right nav panel, firegroups tab also on combat mode ui
• Check they have power - right nav panel, modules tab
• Check they have ammo - combat mode ui or modules tab

Do I need to scan pirates before engaging? Which scanner?

Yes. Otherwise you will become wanted yourself.
No scanner required, just point your nose in their direction and watch the left hand side of the ships ui. It will fill in slowly, eventually wanted should appear.
You can however fit an optional Kill warrant scanner that detects more bounties and gives you more money per kill. This would need assigning to a fire group but it can be the same group that you use to hold down and fire weapons

I'm assuming I'll head out to a nav beacon looking for trouble. Went to the one near Jameson and it was all quiet... I assume from the high security state. WShould I be looking for something less secure? Low? Do anarchy systems have nav beacons?

This isn't a bad tactic. The systems security rating does make a difference, less secure means more bad guys, less security ships. However I'd recommend moving to the resource extraction sites in the rings. These come in low, medium, High and Hazardous. The nav beacons have traders, bounty hunters, security forces, powerplay ships, etc and pirates; the rings just have miners, pirates and security, which tends to simplify things. I always seemed to be chasing around Nav beacons scanning everybody, in rings they seem to come to you.

 

[metatheurgist]

Low Res. As suggested earlier.

Yes. Otherwise you will become wanted yourself.

Unless they've changed that again that hasn't been true for a while. As long as you are sure it is a pirate. Still better safe than sorry.

 

[Kayvan]

Yeah, you'll want to scan them just to be sure they are really Wanted. Pro Tip to figure out which ships are worthwhile giving a full scan: evil ships have evil names. Clean ships have names like "Happy Fluffy Bunny", Wanted ships have edgelord names like "Eternal Torment", "Gehenna", "Infernal Hell" and so on. Only very rarely does a Wanted ship have a name like "Hour". However, pay attention, ships with martial names like "Hunter" or "Sword" often are also bounty hunters or security forces.

 

[jmatt]

the MCs take a half second to spin up before letting lose. Just try holding the fire button for the correct fire group.

That was it. I just wasn't holding it long enough to fire. Ugh, what a noob.

Okay, well that went pretty good. Hit a LRES and chalked up 20 kills or so. Is there some filter I can employ on the radar that will filter out the cops I've identified? The place was a clutter of miners, cops, floating mats, etc.

 

[AlSki]

Is there some filter I can employ on the radar that will filter out the cops I've identified? The place was a clutter of miners, cops, floating mats, etc.

No, but you can use the contacts tab on the left nav panel. It's not a filtered view, but at least you can scroll through the full list