Pay2Win made it to Elite

[Rat Catcher]

That blaze your own trail stuff can only be taken to it's logical conclusions in a privately run game, something Elite: Dangerous has never been.

I disagree only a little.
As interaction with every other player is entirely optional, (which makes perfect sense to me - I'm not in the least bothered that ED doesn't force anyone to play with anyone else) playing as one wishes is possible, if it wasn't, would quite so many solo / PG players still be in the game?

If I couldn't choose how I wished to play in any particular session, I would not be playing 7 years later - not even 7 months later.

That is certainly me blazing my own trail, surely?

Afterthought: Naturally, others may view MY choice of play as "Wrong" because, primarily, I play to enjoy myself rather than socialise with every other player in the game... I can live with that.

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

My CMDR started with a Shinrarta permit and spent a lot more time there before he had any Elite ranks than after. Didn't hit Elite in Combat (my first Elite rank), until about 3k hours into the game; my main focus in the early game was PvP and PvP was a poor way to rank up. I only really fought NPCs for basic practice and to get the minimum number of credits I needed for the ships I was using...at least until Engineers made murdering non-PF members for ship parts essentially mandatory. Can't just go to Auto Zone for a new head gasket or timing belt, you have to run some poor family off the road, shoot their vehicle full of holes, and then strip the parts you need from what's left. Service in the Fedperial Navies made my CMDR an amoral opportunist, murderer, smuggler, and slave trader, but Engineering turned him into a flying genocide.

I've never had to destroy civilian ships to acquire engineering materials, nor has advancing my rank in the Fed/Imp auxiliary required me to trade in slaves or shoot at anyone who wasn't actively shooting back. Being something of a mercenary might be an inevitable part of PF membership, but I've found it's possible to avoid being a complete monster in order to achieve my goals.

 

[Morbad]

As interaction with every other player is entirely optional, (which makes perfect sense to me - I'm not in the least bothered that ED doesn't force anyone to play with anyone else) playing as one wishes is possible, if it wasn't, would quite so many solo / PG players still be in the game?

Indirect interactions with virtually every other player are not only non-optional, they are mandatory. The BGS (which covers everything from political systems, to market availablilty prices, to first discovery tags) and PP states are the same for everyone, in any mode, and everyone that interacts with them contributes to them.

I'm an Open exclusive player, but even during the game's peak, when I was seeing hundreds of unique names a day, my main interactions with other players were with ones I was never instanced with.

Only a few interactions need to be direct; the overwhelming bulk of the game doesn't care about modes.

If I couldn't choose how I wished to play in any particular session, I would not be playing 7 years later - not even 7 months later.

That is certainly me blazing my own trail, surely?

To a limited extent, bound by the constraints I mentioned previously. And your trail is never not going to impose upon mine, in some small way, as long as this game lacks an offline or private server mode.

 

[Morbad]

I've never had to destroy civilian ships to acquire engineering materials, nor has advancing my rank in the Fed/Imp auxiliary required me to trade in slaves or shoot at anyone who wasn't actively shooting back. Being something of a mercenary might be an inevitable part of PF membership, but I've found it's possible to avoid being a complete monster in order to achieve my goals.

The old rank missions were full of assassinations and similar unsavory tasks. It's quite possible they changed the flavor of them to give those trying to not play a monster an advancement path. I'm not very familiar with the current missions as my CMDR has been an Admiral King for a very long time, but there have been many such changes have seriously degraded the dystopian flavor of the setting.

Engineering doesn't make murder of civilian ships absolutely mandatory, but murdering civilian ships makes the acquisition of certain components much faster, and this was a much bigger deal before material traders.

 

[Rat Catcher]

The BGS (which covers everything from political systems, to market availablilty prices, to first discovery tags) and PP states are the same for everyone, in any mode, and everyone that interacts with them contributes to them.

Indeed, every player in the game affects the BGS in one way or another as they play (although the long range explorers may not, any longer, thanks to FCs with all services) which is an intended feature.
Did FD ever imagine that players would decrypt actions needed to 'play' the BGS as their main game? Probably not...

Yes, some of the Anarchy systems I used to prefer as bases of operation have been flipped to Imperial control, all player action, but, with the advent of FCs it no longer matters, I can play out of an empty system instead, no concern that it will ever be anything but anarchy (but I do consider uninhabited should just be called Lawless, to differentiate)

But, minor inconveniences aside, those players I never meet, by choice, are not impacting on my enjoyment of play, and, being blunt, whatever I'm doing is equally unlikely to have any serious impact on their game. Sounds balanced enough.

 

[Morbad]

Did FD ever imagine that players would decrypt actions needed to 'play' the BGS as their main game? Probably not...

The mechanisms don't need to be understood to matter. Some people actively deconstruct the BGS to manipulate it more effectively, but I'd wager most players notice some of the effects, some of the time. Even when they don't, they're still subject to them and can still affect them.

Yes, some of the Anarchy systems I used to prefer as bases of operation have been flipped to Imperial control, all player action, but, with the advent of FCs it no longer matters, I can play out of an empty system instead, no concern that it will ever be anything but anarchy (but I do consider uninhabited should just be called Lawless, to differentiate)

But, minor inconveniences aside, those players I never meet, by choice, are not impacting on my enjoyment of play, and, being blunt, whatever I'm doing is equally unlikely to have any serious impact on their game. Sounds balanced enough.

One can be oblivious to, or choose to ignore, certain aspects of the game, but one does not get to choose who notices their contributions.

You may well have a negligible impact if you sit in a population free system and operate entirely out of your FC, but that's not most players, and you likely had a significant net impact on parts of the setting getting to the point you even buy and maintain one.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Given just how strongly they're sticking to "pay to mediocre", I do actually wonder if they'll make more from the actual sales than they lose in goodwill on the principle from players who aren't the market for these things.

Missed this the first time through. They’re not only losing goodwill, but in my case, the purchase of future cosmetics, and expansions for my alt. I’d missed the fact that the AX “jump starter” contained G5 modded thrusters, thanks to Frontier not highlighting this fact like they did with other modules on both ships.

Up until the pay-for-game assets announcements, I was eager for some good news during the livestream to buy some ship kits (plural) I’ve had my eyes on. The first announcement put those plans on hold, because I didn’t want to buy ARX so close to said announcement. The “jump starter” sneak peak reduced my future purchase to one ship kit. Finding out they tried to sneak in a core G5 mod by not highlighting it closed my wallet permanently.

If the game dies, it dies, but I’ve aided and abetted Frontier’s shady monetization practices for too long. I managed to delude myself that this time it’ll be different. I guess I’ve finally woken up. I’ll enjoy this game for as long as it’s running, but it will receive no further money from me, and Frontier has been added to my list of game companies I won’t buy from.

 

[Darkfyre99]

It's one thing to have gotten the permit by helping make the game exist back when it was an obscure-ish continuation of a long-dormant franchise mostly known for its 1984 title. It'd be another thing if it went up for sale now, permanently, especially considering that Dezhra is considered a lot more important now than it was in pre-2014 when it didn't exist.

It’s always been the same thing. It’s just that we were all so eager for good news on the Elite front, that we made excuses for it, especially to ourselves.

 

[Darrack]

Well they need to test out how 'bad' it is, right? Just so they can help us understand it better.

Yep we always need youtubers or we would never figure this stuff out ourselves

I’ll enjoy this game for as long as it’s running

You will be able to enjoy it longer if Fdev get more cash to make it a viable, self sustaining game.

O7

 

[angusmadmac1]

I would buy the Python MK2 ,
I wouldn't buy the preconfigured ships .
Any module that requires engineers and guardian tech should only be available when they have been unlocked ( even Marco qwent) the guardian gameplay was very good and Fdev should be at least be proud of that ( not the related collection ) and get folk to visit and do them at least once. I've done them and I won't do anti xeno .
If they need money then give us a chance to buy good stuff from the store , not meh paintjobs old decals or mediocre ship kits .
There are paintjobs hidden behind certain dates etc open the access up . ( This includes the old paintjobs in legacy( the ones already there ) ) Fix the arx store so that if you buy arx you get them ( ongoing issues since Jan ?)
I would like dragon paintjobs for my ships
More varied decals and name plates in cockpit stuff . The list is endless .
I'm against shortcuts but I've been playing since 2016 I want nice looking ships even just the old ones

 

[Darkfyre99]

You will be able to enjoy it longer if Fdev get more cash to make it a viable, self sustaining game.

Very much true. But the route Frontier has chosen to do so is not the way to do it. It isn’t the sign of a flourishing game. It’s a sign that management wants to squeeze their customers until they’re dry. I’ve seen this far too many times. It always starts with little, inoffensive things to test the waters, but it eventually leads to something far worse…

Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjvF6Kknsw

 

[DYSEQTA]

I'm not in the least bothered...

You keep saying this. I'm not sure it means what you think it means. You seem to spend a great deal of time telling others why they are so very wrong about the things you aren't the least bit bothered by...

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

I am slowly moving towards unlocking it the moment it is released just out of spite, and then prancing it around in all the popular places in open with a total noob build and offensive name. 20+ billion in the bank should suffice for a few rebuys.

I'll be buying one, definitely, but I'm going to engineer mine to the hilt. If somebody wants to take me out, more power to them. I have half the amount you have, but it should be good enough. If they feel better about themselves ("I REALLY put that chutney ferret in his place!"), so much the better.

 

[Darrack]

Very much true. But the route Frontier has chosen to do so is not the way to do it. It isn’t the sign of a flourishing game. It’s a sign that management wants to squeeze their customers until they’re dry. I’ve seen this far too many times. It always starts with little, inoffensive things to test the waters, but it eventually leads to something far worse…

Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjvF6Kknsw

Well everyone is criticising but im still waiting for anyone to come up with an alternative to help their cash flow

O7

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

And FDev makes a living from Elite Dangerous, so they can't be taken seriously either!

/sarcasm

I tend to be cautious about claims from any manufacturers about their products. Consumer reviews help with that, and once I have read enough, I might dip my toe in.

 

[Rainbro]

Well everyone is criticising but im still waiting for anyone to come up with an alternative to help their cash flow

O7

I like the model of "improve game to attract more customers". Of course, that is quite a bit harder than "strip everything back and timewall new releases for Arx", but I can dream.

And while it may seem like a flawless plan to just insert more monetisation opportunities in the way of gameplay, that can obviously backfire. A new ship release after so many years would have been a major event and brought a lot of people back to the game. How many of them will bother returning if they need to pay for Odyssey a second time to receive it, or else wait three months for the novelty to wear off? How many potential new players will decide against buying the game and its expansions if that is supposedly no longer good enough to enjoy all the gameplay it has to offer?

 

[Morbad]

Well everyone is criticising but im still waiting for anyone to come up with an alternative to help their cash flow

The problem is that the optimal product and the 'most enjoyable game catering to a specific niche' are opposing goals.

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

What if we had ARX based CGs instead where you donate ARX to a faction instead of doing any gameplay?

But seriously, that would maybe be a better way of unlocking the prebuilt ships/python 2 for everyone, both in terms of letting everyone have access to it and whaling the crap out of dumb rich people.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Well everyone is criticising but im still waiting for anyone to come up with an alternative to help their cash flow

O7

We have: develop a game, and expansions, that people consider worth buying.

Why do you think this isn't a viable alternative?

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Well everyone is criticising but im still waiting for anyone to come up with an alternative to help their cash flow

O7

There are still quite a few ships without shipkits, those would be an instant buy for me. The fleet carriers got 3 different exterior and interior skins on launch and never anything more. Given how popular carriers are and I know hardly any player who hasn't bought at least one kit for theirs, that's cash lost right there. There is lots and lots of untapped potential in cosmetics still. Finally making the ship interiors would open another avenue of endless internal decoration, ask the Starfield players. Same goes for base building. And that could actually be sold as an expansion on top.