But the "Steam Chart Users Club" insist there are less than 4,000 players in the game, so that idea couldn't possibly float...
(Sorry Ian, not enough coffee yet
)
Pay2Win made it to Elite
- Thread starter Einar Donarsson
- Start date
(Sorry Ian, not enough coffee yet
)
The "promise" (maybe it was just "currently we have no plans") not to introduce a way to buy advantages with real cash is an "holy" agreement between FDEV and the early community. I am pretty sure there is an archived discussion somewhere in the DDF. It was used countless times in discussions ("well at least it's not pay2win" etc).Well everyone is criticising but im still waiting for anyone to come up with an alternative to help their cash flow
O7
However, that was 12 years ago. Things changed, the game changed, the community changed and I guess most of the devs changed too. Personally I don't need to care, I didn't play since quite some time and only have some kind of obscure interest left.
What "bothers" (well not really) me though is that they give up on their "promise" in such a half-bottomed way. It's the typical FDEV syndrome of not getting things done 100%. They are introducing pay to win, but in such a way that nobody can get angry at them because what they are offering just isn't worth it. "Yes, we are offering advantages for real money but you can't complain because the advantages suck".
What kind of strategy is this? They could make so much more money if they fully transitioned in a pay to advance quickly model. They could sell packages with engineering materials, make all modules available for real cash etc. It's not something I want, but if they decide to "break the holy promise" at least make it worth it. I don't know if that makes any sense or if I managed to explain it, but that's how I feel about it.
Wasn't Fleet Carriers originally listed as a paid expansion? Frontier could have sold access to that feature. I really think they'd do better with the original pay to use model, but ED has been one giant experiment for Frontier, multi-player live service games being an area they had no experience of. Rather tellingly, an experience they haven't sought to replicate.
I'm sorry, but your statement is utter rubbish. Even your link to the explanation of PTW shows there is no PTW."Pay to Win: In computer games, involving or relating to the practice of paying to get weapons, abilities, etc., that gives you an advantage over players that do not spend money."
pay-to-win
1. in computer games, involving or relating to the practice of paying to get…dictionary.cambridge.org
Buying ships, upgrades, and timed exclusives for real money does give an advantage over players that do not spend, and therefore absolutely is pay2win. It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise. Is it pay2win is not even a question, it is, so, the real questions are: "Can I live with this level of Pay2Win in the game?", and "What level of Pay2Win is too much for me, personally, to accept?"...
We are all about to find out it seems.
EVERYTHING on the pre built ships are available in game without the need to use ARX.
The purchase of pre built ships should really be called Pay-to-skip-ahead-a-little.
If Frontier sold unobtainable modules (within normal gameplay) then I would agree with it being PTW, but as it stands, clearly not.
I really don't know how many times i need to post this and it really doesn't take much thought either:
Python Mk II & Updates To The Gamestore
nah, it looks that it's a large and is far behind the cockpit, between the two large on the sides, maybe slightly behind them Besides hardpoints, I was just wondering how they'd balance internals to give her more speed, agility and so on, as imho only an FdL-Python hybrid would make a PM2...
That's a subset of P2W and people are splitting hairs over this.
If you want to say it's pay-to-skip that's fine and pay to win what, then fine.
If there's nothing to win then why would anyone buy it in the first place, if it's pay to skip then why is the build up to having a decent ship so bad you have to skip it.
They've said they're still "looking into" making changes to engineering in the same post, but their first conclusion, the immediate action to take in response to the whole engineering feedback thread was that they need to add pre-builts? Yes this is rhetorical, the prebuilts aren't for our enjoyment they're for FDev to make money off our suffering due to the game being bad in other parts. There's nuance to it but it helps to put it as bluntly as possible.
Just wondering:
I tried getting to spire site when they came out - obviously cannot land on EDH4.0.
Q) IF I buy Ody today, can I immediately go to said spire site today and descend to the site and bomb and collect using limpets? without needing to go on feet?
Or are there long tutorials/learning curves/grind for suits/etc, in which case I cannot go for a few weeks playing only an hour or 2 a day.
I really like the suggestions in @Weps post and would pay small amounts Arx for those I liked and wanted.I really don't know how many times i need to post this and it really doesn't take much thought either:
Python Mk II & Updates To The Gamestore
nah, it looks that it's a large and is far behind the cockpit, between the two large on the sides, maybe slightly behind them Besides hardpoints, I was just wondering how they'd balance internals to give her more speed, agility and so on, as imho only an FdL-Python hybrid would make a PM2...forums.frontier.co.uk
Some people seem to enjoy the many bottom-tiring experiences that is the grind within the game. However, I wonder if there are many players who enjoy all aspects.
For example, the whole thargoid invasion story arc didn't interest me one jot, whereas new planetary types, with varied biomes would have (had) me excited beyond the ability to type (or even say) 'squeeeee'.
Without a game completing 'win' state, it's a little tough to see what else there is other than time consuming repetition. For those without either the time or inclination, why not let them enjoy the game via the Arx store. I struggle to care one jot about 'pay to [whatever]'.
YMMV
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True
Yes, but be prepared for a rough ride at first
Afterthought: Getting a Scorpion SRV may be a great idea...
Up to G3 suits can be bought from the store (there used to be a thread with details of what & where) Weapons the same, either may come with engineering (up to 2 additions, which may, or may not, be wanted by the player) for an escalating credits cost.
G3 is fine for doing much that EDO offers, but even G5 isn't "God mode", just good.
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To echo what Rat Catcher posted, suit engineering has a low plateau. You can only have a maximum of 4 mod slots, can't stack shielding to become near invincible like ships, can't swap mods in case you made a mistake.
And more often than not, you will be swarmed if the alarm goes off when raiding settlements so hit & run tactics are essential, you won't be able to tank much shots even with a fully engineered suit.
And more often than not, you will be swarmed if the alarm goes off when raiding settlements so hit & run tactics are essential, you won't be able to tank much shots even with a fully engineered suit.
As many people keep pointing out: Frontier could simply make a game, and expansions, that players consider worth purchasing. This monetization strategy, along side the sale of cosmetics, has been successful enough for Frontier to keep developing this game, including giving players an expansion for free that they'd originally planned to sell.
My question is this: Why do you think this strategy won't work anymore?
My question is: If the previous strategy has been so successful, why might they consider offering mediocre ship builds and early access to a new ship for Arx (which, for anyone playing for a year or more could be sitting in their bank anyway) along with cosmetics?
Perhaps, just perhaps, they have listened to the suggestions in the past where forum members bewailed the fact that something they wanted should be purchasable with Arx?
Perhaps the bean counters advised them it would fail? If only the same wisdom could have been shown at the launch of EDO, and the release delayed until it had a little bit of optimisation work completed. Maybe, just maybe, then FD wouldn't have had to write off the development cost from their profits?
At present the ships offered in pre-built form are a simple case of time vs money. If FDev were to make engineering modules and unlocking broker modules as easy as buying Arx, then there would be just as much uproar if not more so, except it would be about FDev "dumbing down" the game or something like that.
The fact they mentioned improving engineering in writing, rather than off-handed comment made at a convention or something along those lines, makes me cautiously optimistic about how restrained this will be.
Because the management at Frontier Developments has proven, repeatedly, that they can't be trusted to allow their developers to release a good expansion for Elite Dangerous. That they'd rather rush a product to market and fix it afterwards, rather than take the time to do it right.
They've broken the public trust, and I don't understand why anyone would think that taking yet another step down the path towards predatory monitzation would make them even more worthy of trust.
If they thought it would fail, they wouldn't have built it in the first place. Access to a mobile ship collection are such an obvious "Pay-for-Conveinece" premium item, that I was suprised that they gave it to the player base for free.
Business raise capital for operations using one of four methods:
- Loans
- Selling shares of the company
- Service to the Customer
- Exploitation of the Customer. In the case of video games, this includes lootboxes and the various tiers of Pay-to-Win:
- Pay-for-Convience - The purchase of minor quality of life improvements that don't fundamentally change how the game is played (Kickstarter, Horizons, Odyssey), but do provide the player with a minor advantage.
- Pay-for-Capabilities - The purchase of abilities that fundamentally change how the game is played, but still must be unlocked via normal gameplay (Kickstarter, Horizons, Odyseey)
- Pay-for-Assets - The direct purchase of ingame assets, that bypass normal gameplay (Kickstarter, Jumpstarters)
- Pay-for-Power - The purchase of premium ammo and equipment that is fundamentally more powerful than what is available through normal gameplay
- Pay-for-Progression - The purchase of ingame boosts, without which the game is all but unplayable.
Where does trust come into it? (sorry, I'm a cynic in some things, I wouldn't trust a business to give me the current time of day if I didn't pay them for it)
I can sympathise with holding a high moral stance, but, that is all.
"Broken the public trust" is highly emotive - certainly, it is your opinion, but time will prove if their current scheme works for them, surely?
If too many people are offended (which appears to be the case for some) by FD's actions, they will not open their wallets, may even just walk away from the game, who would blame them, if their sensibilities are offended by a business practise? It is their choice to object in any way they might... (as a few here are demonstrating)
Or by any other means they perceive may be profitable, surely? (as long as it is legal)
The great thing is, anyone who disagrees with their method have the ability to say "no, I won't" - that is a fact, isn't it?
The cost of cosmetics for carriers kinda already does that. -more cosmetic options and the ability to furnish the bridge/office would go a long way imo.
But the fuss would have been about the LEPers missing out or not, the Pay to Whatever fuss is mostly about the prebuilt ships.