No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

[Magic Man]

In the example you make it was not specified the nature of the dinner. If as part of the deal you offered at the end of the stay a dinner, I request it to be beans, and you agreed... at the end of the stay you have to provide a beans' dinner. It's not something you do because you are generous, it's part of the deal we made. You cannot change it to a pees' dinner: if you do and I disagree, I am entitled for a refund since you failed to comply with the deal we agreed to.

Basically, when I agreed to the deal I did so also on the premise that I would have received a beans' dinner: you cannot change that premise unilaterally.

In this case Frontier promised some customers an "offline mode dinner".

You didn't make a deal for the dinner (nor the game for that matter). And you can't change your own analogy to better suit

When you agreed to the deal, a dinner of unspecified content only was added as a free thank you - there was no choice of beans nor pees - you also didn't pay for it, it was free, whether you decided to see it as part of the deal or not, it wasn't.

You can't have a refund on the dinner because you didn't like what was on the plate...

 

[Vlodec]

Wow, a whole 10 mins and just 2 posts... are you people tiring out?!
Go drink a Red Bull

Seriously, we might have finally started running out of steam on this thread and I honestly wouldn't mind one bit.

An alternative take........

This will not die down for at least a month. The final eruption will begin on the 16th of December when those who are still not aware will finally become so upon downloading a game that isn't what they thought it would be. It'll then rumble on over Christmas, when people have time on their hands and are alcohol fuelled, and into the New Year.

And if you're tired of the whole thing - understandable - the solution is so obvious I won't insult your intelligence by describing it.

P.S.

And then there's the guy deep in the Amazon jungle who won't find out until this time next year.

 

[Gerli]

I'm very disappointed with the way FD is handle this issue.

 

[bart roberts]

Something tells me this will never go away

Shush, let me have my naïve delusions...

They should build the online/offliners into the Federation/Empire evolution story and we can take this into the game and sort it out with big lazers! It'd be epic and hopefully provide a reason for the offliners to stay.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Offline was not a feature, it was not an added bonus to the game it was a CORE mechanic that was removed.

It was, but for you not FDEV, otherwise it would have been on the main KS article, not just mentionned afterwards on the FAQ, and it would have been part of the alpha/beta program.

 

[EbolaConundrum]

Because without the changing mechanics you have very little. If there is no evolution, then what are you doing? Sight-seeing in progressively larger ships after grinding your trade route that never changes?

These systems require large numbers of Players to cause a flux and the implications of those changes are what generate the missions and the counter missions, the political change and combat scenarios... literally EVERYTHING hinges off of the evolution aspect.

That is why an offline version would be sooo empty. I am not even sure you would have the elements that Elite or Frontier offered up because the NPC AI is not (as far as my understanding goes) programmed to always appear or randomly generate in the way it was done in those old games. Here the AI evolves as well to the galaxy around it.

Yes it could be changed, but this is the point, too much needs to be done to get it to work.
Hey it could have been worse, they could have delayed the decision, launched with Multiplayer and then said tough luck. Yes the comms were late in the day, but the decision is understandable in my mind.

Simple AI systems to generate missions off-line and simple random price fluctuations for an offline mode would not be that hard to add at all, Elite in 1984 did a lot of that and it fitted on a 32k 8 bit computer so how much code do you think it took?

yes the missions would be more limited than you could do in the evolving galaxy but it certainly is doable and you act as if an Off-line mode was only thought of as a feature in the last couple of months of development rather than kept in mind throught as it should have been as a feature promised to backers way back when the kickstarter was running.

 

[WeirdWizard]

I feel the need to explain why offline mode is important for me. I want to play video game, on casual basis. I want to be able to save my status, reload it and continue where I stopped. I don't like nor have time for participating in dynamic universe where if I do not participate for some time things can turn dramatically - so I need to actively participate in it if I want to have some improvements. I want to play video game not to live in online parallel dynamic universe at all. It is simply my attitude and impression it is not something that is by any means standard or must for any other person. And I'm not trying to convince anyone that online is bad for him as it is bad for me.
That's why I feel bad when FD tries so hard to convince me that online is the best possible experience. Maybe it is for majority but not for me. If they have stated that there will be no offline mode ever, than I would not rant at all. I would simply pass ED. However, they false advertized the features they seems never intended to build. I won't participate in this issue any more. I wish them the best of luck with this project.

Well said, sadly because of the policy of "keep them all in one thread and let the apologists run rampant so it just all scrolls by and blurs together in the hope no one will notice" your perfectly reasonable point will get lost and buried in no time at all. Sorry, have a quote and some rep.

 

[EbolaConundrum]

Actually I think this issue will die down as those of us angry about it move over to game communities following games we still have hope for and developers we still respect and trust.

But it will come up again when they launch the game and have the inevitable complaints about disconnects and servers being too busy to let people on even to play single player. Be sure this will flare up again then, and some of the people mocking those who wanted the promised off-line feature may have cause to revisit their contempt for those of us who it did matter too.

 

[sbdags]

Looking at some of these posts makes me wonder why they backed Elite: Dangerous at all! Given the "cut my nose off to spite my face." attitudes. Backing for 'just' offline mode, really. Hard to prove that one, since to me it looks more like "Ah, I've found the mistake we're looking for, let's bleed it dry and make a scene." Since Michael has taken time out to answer many questions and this still persists without closure by the moderators.

Shok.

Agreed the thread doesn't seem to have much worthy content now for days. Just more poison from people determined to upset and derail others. Not sure why I keep reading it ....

 

[WeirdWizard]

They should build the online/offliners into the Federation/Empire evolution story and we can take this into the game and sort it out with big lazers! It'd be epic and hopefully provide a reason for the offliners to stay.

Parallel universes... Its a sci fi staple and would neatly allow for all the wonderful divergence a vibrant modding scene would create.

 

[Schwarzwolf]

I have setup a petition to FD to re instate the offline mode or at least shortly after release, it IS possible to have the mode hence we have been using it in BETA, obviosly some features wont work such as comms BUT all previous Eltes were offline and great so why cant this version be. An offline version will be different but still great.

Please if you agree sign this petition

Additionally please feel free to pass the link around

Even when i doesn't remember, that there wasn't a offline mode in the beta. The only thing we had where some scenarios offline. But this hadn't anything to do with an offline universe mode.
Regardless its possible and they promised it. So i signed.

...Because many features would need to be redesigned probably from the ground up. yes its a design decision, because, yes it COULD be done, but in order to get the core game mode to work as intended sacrifices had to be made and this is unfortunately one of them. Maybe FD will revisit at a later date, maybe not, but no petition will change it for release.

It WAS intended to have offline mode. It was written at the Kickstarter. So if they would have made the game as intended, it would have an offline mode.
And no it isn't important for release. If they would yust written "We can't get it done to release, so the online mode will have to wait some time after the release, it would be aswell okay. They wouldn't have broken their promises and would still make an offline mode. But they simply dropped it."
Yes, they might have intended it without one. But then they should haven't written it. Aswell they wouldn't have got as much money then.

Signed at least I think so for some reason the form to sign was in german.

Think you are german like me. So the change.org site translated the form into german. But the petition was still in english.

 

[Riandor]

Offline was not a feature, it was not an added bonus to the game it was a CORE mechanic that was removed.

If you could point me to the part where it says it is a Core gameplay pillar? Because MB & DB have stated that it never was... I am sorry, I do feel for those unable to play the game now and I do hope they get refunds. But I knew what I was getting, I know still that Expansions are a risk, I know what I pledged and supported from the very beginning.

I know a lot about product development and very much about concept to delivery in a multimillion pound project due to my field of work. I don't want to be flippant or disrespectful to those who legitimately have lost a game, but in my view a lot of the accusations of what FD is just plain wrong.

 

[WeirdWizard]

Actually I think this issue will die down as those of us angry about it move over to game communities following games we still have hope for and developers we still respect and trust.

But it will come up again when they launch the game and have the inevitable complaints about disconnects and servers being too busy to let people on even to play single player. Be sure this will flare up again then, and some of the people mocking those who wanted the promised off-line feature may have cause to revisit their contempt for those of us who it did matter too.

Not to mention when people start using "doing an Elite Dangerous" on other forums as an object lesson, warning or just to make a point.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Simple AI systems to generate missions off-line and simple random price fluctuations for an offline mode would not be that hard to add at all, Elite in 1984 did a lot of that and it fitted on a 32k 8 bit computer so how much code do you think it took?

Err... Coding is not as easy as what you see in a movie. And you can't tell the complexity of a code by the number of lines or the space it takes on a disk.

 

[David Braben]

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

Thanks,

David

 

[Schwarzwolf]

Even if it wasn't a core gameplay pillar. They have written clear and misunderstanding "The offline mode WILL be integrated into the game". If they do so, they should stay to the promise. Not simple skipping it.
And for some peoples it is an core element they where looking for (including me). As another example. When i pay for an space simulation, i want a space simulation not only a arcade game or an shooter. Thats the same here. When i pay for a game i can play offline (how promised), i want a game i can play offline not only online. If they wouldn't have promised it an i would have bought it regardless, then it would be my fault. So its theirs breaking their promises.

 

[ghcannon]

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

....

David

Excellent. I can't imagine making this game a major long-term success with such issues from the past looming constantly ...

 

[The Big One]

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

Thanks,

David

Thanks for update

 

[Riandor]

It WAS intended to have offline mode. It was written at the Kickstarter. So if they would have made the game as intended, it would have an offline mode.
And no it isn't important for release. If they would yust written "We can't get it done to release, so the online mode will have to wait some time after the release, it would be aswell okay. They wouldn't have broken their promises and would still make an offline mode. But they simply dropped it."
Yes, they might have intended it without one. But then they should haven't written it. Aswell they wouldn't have got as much money then.
.

Yes it was intended but not promised. There is a very clear linguistic distinction. Alas on top of it, a so called promise or promise of intent is not enforceable in a court of law (morally and lawful being a clear distinction).

And yes they could have delayed the decision, but then everyone would be screaming absolute blue murder if later down the line they failed to deliver. Better upfront and now whilst those who legitimately can't get online can hopefully get refunds.

EDIT: Good to hear Mr Braben! I am sure many on here will be very appreciative.

 

[Kestril]

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

Thanks,

David

Well that's a pleasant surprise.

Regardless of your feelings for no offline, you gotta hand it to frontier for being responsive and doing some great damage control.