No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

[Sagan]

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

Thanks,

David

I was one of those people whose request you re-opened... BUT... as I replied to the ticket.

I do not understand how your records could show that I've played Elite Dangerous. I have never bought or downloaded any Alpha or Beta orders. I do not own or have any Alpha or Beta orders. How could I be showing as having played Elite Dangerous?

I am requesting a refund on the Elite: Dangerous - Lifetime Expansion Pass which I bought in your store... NOTHING ELSE!


Anyone else confused yet?

 

[EbolaConundrum]

If you could point me to the part where it says it is a Core gameplay pillar? Because MB & DB have stated that it never was... I am sorry, I do feel for those unable to play the game now and I do hope they get refunds. But I knew what I was getting, I know still that Expansions are a risk, I know what I pledged and supported from the very beginning.

I know a lot about product development and very much about concept to delivery in a multimillion pound project due to my field of work. I don't want to be flippant or disrespectful to those who legitimately have lost a game, but in my view a lot of the accusations of what FD is just plain wrong.

It was indeed never a core gameplay feature to DB which he has made very obvious by not keeping it in mind through the development. However it was promised during the kickstarter as a way to get a lot of people onboard who where expressing doubt about pledging to an online only game or said they outright wouldn't because they wouldn't always have a connection when they wanted to play. David promised this and therefore should have planned to honour his promise through the following development process. Not treat it like a politicians promise quickly forgotten after they get elected and side lined as a nice to have if we can jam it in at the end without much effort.

I know this because I was one of the early kick-starter backers and without us this game would not have got backed on kickstarter and therefore would not exist. But as you say David never had it as part of his core vision from the start and didn't see that he needed to incorporate it into that vision just because he had promised it to get people to pledge money. That is why I'm so angry about this I consider that unethical.

 

[bsolar]

You didn't make a deal for the dinner (nor the game for that matter). And you can't change your own analogy to better suit

The Beta program includes the full game, so it's part of what was offered in the beta program. When customers paid for the beta program they paid for the full game too, together with all other items included in the beta program offer. There is zero doubt about that, it's not that Frontier's offer is particularly complex or novel: sellers offer these kind of deals all the time.

When you agreed to the deal, a dinner of unspecified content only was added as a free thank you - there was no choice of beans nor pees - you also didn't pay for it, it was free, whether you decided to see it as part of the deal or not, it wasn't.

No, the "dinner" was not added as a free thank you: that would be the case if it were not part of the original deal and added free of charge afterwards. In this case the free dinner was definitely part of the original deal and definitely played a role on the customers decision to purchase the beta program or not.

You can't have a refund on the dinner because you didn't like what was on the plate...

You would be right if the dinner's content were actually unspecified, but Frontier was specifically asked whether the full game would have included offline mode. Frontier officially answered very clearly that it would have included offline mode, making the "dinner" not unspecified anymore (at least on that particular aspect).

 

[Krait_79]

Simple AI systems to generate missions off-line and simple random price fluctuations for an offline mode would not be that hard to add at all, Elite in 1984 did a lot of that and it fitted on a 32k 8 bit computer so how much code do you think it took?

yes the missions would be more limited than you could do in the evolving galaxy but it certainly is doable and you act as if an Off-line mode was only thought of as a feature in the last couple of months of development rather than kept in mind throught as it should have been as a feature promised to backers way back when the kickstarter was running.

Obviously it's not that simple or they would have done it!

 

[Sir.Tj]

With David making an announcement just now, can we take a break from all the arguing please?

Thanks, from a very tired Mod.

 

[Sitasan]

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

Thanks,

David

Hey, that is cool, i think it s the right think to do, nice of you Mr. Braben.

i personaly having faith in your team, and i pray for a succesful story.

 

[Polared]

The trouble with this analogy is that only a fraction of the train has become wrecked. A better analogy would be that the last carriage on the train has been disconnected, and there's an incredible din coming from those passengers being left behind. Those of us still on board for the journey are carrying on our games of whist and backgammon, and reading the newspaper.

until theres another train wreck that is! then we'll hear some screaming i bet! regret to say, i've already decided i'm very unlikely to be particularly sympathetic or to even care at all when that happens, thanks to the attitudes displayed by some less than communal members of this "community"

 

[Shoklar]

That's a easy... I can go messages through my phone.... but the game is gonna take a bit more 'umph' to use

So you can pay hundreds for a mobile phone and costs of use, but not have a stable connection at home of which it only needs 10kbps. Ok, thanks.

Shok.

 

[Biffa]

It's funny here now, very few of the pro offline are bothering to post because pretty much everything has been said but now we see the fanbois, whiteknights and anti-offline crowd have moved in to dominate the discussions, the points have all been made give it a rest...

Let's just hope that fairness and evenhandedness will prevail and let's look forward to the release and stop trying to score points off one another.

 

[Magic Man]

The Beta program includes the full game, so it's part of what was offered in the beta program. When customers paid for the beta program they paid for the full game too, together with all other items included in the beta program offer. There is zero doubt about that, it's not that Frontier's offer is particularly complex or novel: sellers offer these kind of deals all the time.


No, the "dinner" was not added as a free thank you: that would be the case if it were not part of the original deal and added free of charge afterwards. In this case the free dinner was definitely part of the original deal and definitely played a role on the customers decision to purchase the beta program or not.


You would be right if the dinner's content were actually unspecified, but Frontier was specifically asked whether the full game would have included offline mode. Frontier officially answered very clearly that it would have included offline mode, making the "dinner" not unspecified anymore (at least on that particular aspect).

The beta program includes the full game for free... everything else is moot.

 

[WeirdWizard]

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

Thanks,

David

This is a good move, I await with interest peoples experiences and I will likely put my own request in for a refund, which till now I have not bothered doing. I am hopeful that this is the start of a no quibble refund for anyone who was expecting an offline mode. But I guess we will see.

 

[foxpur]

With David making an announcement just now, can we take a break from all the arguing please?

Thanks, from a very tired Mod.

Gives the mod a massage and a drink of choice

 

[Mack]

With David making an announcement just now, can we take a break from all the arguing please?

Thanks, from a very tired Mod.

Aww T.j, you're doing a stella job. Shame peeps can't just feel the love and chill out !!

 

[Krait_79]

The Beta program includes the full game, so it's part of what was offered in the beta program. When customers paid for the beta program they paid for the full game too, together with all other items included in the beta program offer. There is zero doubt about that, it's not that Frontier's offer is particularly complex or novel: sellers offer these kind of deals all the time.


No, the "dinner" was not added as a free thank you: that would be the case if it were not part of the original deal and added free of charge afterwards. In this case the free dinner was definitely part of the original deal and definitely played a role on the customers decision to purchase the beta program or not.


You would be right if the dinner's content were actually unspecified, but Frontier was specifically asked whether the full game would have included offline mode. Frontier officially answered very clearly that it would have included offline mode, making the "dinner" not unspecified anymore (at least on that particular aspect).

Ah a food analogy. Ok imagine right you order a cheeseburger because well you like cheese. The chef says we don't have cheese right now but we will get some. Now rather than wait you decide to order and then start eating because that burger still looks damn fine tasty. Towards the end the chef comes back and says sorry we won't have any cheese afterall. So the people who just came in at the other table and just ordered hear this and cancel for a refund. You on the other hand demand a refund despite the fact you have already been enjoying that burger!!

 

[jabokai]

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

Thanks,

David

That is really good news... hopefully a satisfactory outcome for all concerned.

 

[megaman]

With David making an announcement just now, can we take a break from all the arguing please?

Thanks, from a very tired Mod.

and thank you T.J. and all the mods for your hard work

 

[Ecks Theory]

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

Thanks,

David

Why? It's pretty clear where people stand. They either do or do not want a refund. If the reason is for something other than the removal of the offline mode then refuse, if it's for the reason of the removal of offline mode, you should honour it. Surely your reputation is more important than a few quid?

 

[littleminxundr]

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

Thanks,

David

That's huge and laudable, Mr. Braben. I've full confidence that others' and my own ticket will be handled with due care. It shows that Frontier is willing to apply the spirit of the legalities instead of the letter of the legalities, which at this point in the proceedings is a big step forward and a major gesture to us who were disappointed by the dropping of the Offline.
No matter the outcome of many of the tickets, including mine, thank you very much!

 

[Sir.Tj]

Gives the mod a massage and a drink of choice

If you could pass that message on to Jessica Alba I'd appreciate it.

Aww T.j, you're doing a stella job. Shame peeps can't just feel the love and chill out !!

I can promise you the rest of the Mod team have been doing a hell of a lot more work behind the scenes than I have.

They are a great bunch.

So if we can have a bit of calm and wait for things to progress we would all be very grateful.

Enjoy 3.9 when it drops.

 

[Greyshadow]

If you could point me to the part where it says it is a Core gameplay pillar? Because MB & DB have stated that it never was... I am sorry, I do feel for those unable to play the game now and I do hope they get refunds. But I knew what I was getting, I know still that Expansions are a risk, I know what I pledged and supported from the very beginning.

I know a lot about product development and very much about concept to delivery in a multimillion pound project due to my field of work. I don't want to be flippant or disrespectful to those who legitimately have lost a game, but in my view a lot of the accusations of what FD is just plain wrong.

I am not saying it said it was a core mechanic i am saying having an offline game is a core mechanic in itself. Every aspect of the game has to be installed on the PC in order to run offline and therefore would be almost like a different game in itself. Elite is a franchise based on the aspect of offline play. Elite dangerous is part of that franchise and was communicated as both an offline and online game.

FD is by no mean an AAA developer by any standards and they are trying to enter a gaming arena they have never entered before and before they even launch they game they not only upset the community they botch the refund process and get bad media press. FD should have followed the franchise focus on making a fantastic offline elite game like they have in the past and then add the online component later. As I have said before this is NOT AN MMO and they can't treat it as one its not going to work.

There is nothing about Solo mode that cannot be done offline.