Open-Only in PP2.0?

[Robert Maynard]

A player is not restricted in how or where they fly, and can ignore rules NPCs are hardwired to obey. Players can also formulate and execute complex plans NPCs could never match.

Some players, maybe, not all players - as mentioned there is a skill distribution, that cannot reasonably be ignored.

 

[Darrack]

Because players will always be better than NPCs, and, for a feature that relies on efficient strategy at a high level as well as low (as in, you flying about) you should be rewarded for risking more.

Your 'hauling' in PvE illustrates this point- you face nothing doing your job- NPCs can barely touch you, are easy to escape from, never chance it when you drop into a stations NFZ, have no engineering, have no persistence or consistency, and are very infrequent. Fortification is a strategic job, something needs to be pushing back.

I agree on the difficulty and unfairness as you see it.
By all means increase the difficulty of NPCs, but again its your choice to fly in Open, most don't want PvP (imo).
My point still stands, PP2 will not be Open only, we do PP1 in Mobius which like many other PGs has strict no PvP rules, imo Fdev are not going to alienate this huge part of the player base just for those that want PvP.
All of us want PP to attract more folks, Open only will have the opposite effect.

O7

 

[Rubbernuke]

Some players, maybe, not all players - as mentioned there is a skill distribution, that cannot reasonably be ignored.

Of course. But I'd dare say the distribution of skill in PP pledges is higher than the wider game, given how many disciplines it overlaps.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Of course. But I'd dare say the distribution of skill in PP pledges is higher than the wider game, given how many disciplines it overlaps.

Given that there seems to be a desire, on Frontier's part at least, for more players to participate in Powerplay 2.0, that assumption loses relevance.

 

[SergMx]

You are forgetting the bit where you fly from A to B. While you faced a 2015 Eagle fitted with pulse lasers, I'm having to contend with a tanky G5 phased laser toting enemy.

I have to expend much more time thinking about survivabilty, speed as well as fly better.

So again, why should having an easier time be rewarded the same?

I don't understand you.

I described how the game is now. Recently there was a tedious CG on delivery. I wrote here on the forum, and let me do the same thing in the open game, but I will get more for it.

A lot of people said I don't understand anything.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I agree on the difficulty and unfairness as you see it.
By all means increase the difficulty of NPCs, but again its your choice to fly in Open, most don't want PvP (imo).
My point still stands, PP2 will not be Open only, we do PP1 in Mobius which like many other PGs has strict no PvP rules, imo Fdev are not going to alienate this huge part of the player base just for those that want PvP.
All of us want PP to attract more folks, Open only will have the opposite effect.

O7

Open (in V1) is such an issue because it requires players to work- 'work' here defined as having ships that are not restricted by persistence, can strategize at a high and low level (i.e. formulate plans to expand, defend, attack etc). You can argue that some of that can be pan modal, but without the threat of actual intelligent pushback its only half the game- everything then becomes indirect.

My point still stands, PP2 will not be Open only, we do PP1 in Mobius which like many other PGs has strict no PvP rules, imo Fdev are not going to alienate this huge part of the player base just for those that want PvP.

I don't expect PP V2 to be Open only either, however I do expect Open to be weighted or have mitigations to prevent problems we see in V1. Taking actual data from streamer surveys and forum responses here the clear majority want some sort of change from the status quo. When Sandro asked his question, there was a 65% approval of Open (counting firm yes / no repsonses). OA did another poll of 7700 votes where it was 50% open, 25% weighted and 25% no change. More recently with V2 BuurPit:

Here the clear majority who voted want weighting which I can understand, given how V2 is closer to the BGS than V1s design.

In short, mode parity is not the way forward- FD know this, and all polls taken point that way too.

PP2 will not be Open only, we do PP1 in Mobius which like many other PGs has strict no PvP rules

And? All the Kumo Crew, Feds, (most) Imps, don't (going by Discord). When I was with Utopia most people flew in Open.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I don't understand you.

I described how the game is now. Recently there was a tedious CG on delivery. I wrote here on the forum, and let me do the same thing in the open game, but I will get more for it.

A lot of people said I don't understand anything.

Then we are misunderstanding each other because I'm also explaining how the game works- one mode has nothing, another has the scary ships yet both reward the same.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Here the clear majority who voted

... and one can only speculate as to how many of those YouTube accounts that voted actually own a copy of the game, noting that one can create as many YouTube accounts as one can be bothered to create.

 

[SergMx]

Then we are misunderstanding each other because I'm also explaining how the game works- one mode has nothing, another has the scary ships yet both reward the same.

I was given an answer in that thread. The fact that you fly in the open and get more interest, that will be your reward for participating in the open.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Given that there seems to be a desire, on Frontier's part at least, for more players to participate in Powerplay 2.0, that assumption loses relevance.

Even though V2 is miles easier to understand, it will still require more from a player than normal play, especially so considering its an explicit battle for dominance.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Even though V2 is miles easier to understand, it will still require more from a player than normal play, especially so considering its an explicit battle for dominance.

That remains to be seen - as we haven't engaged in it, yet.

 

[Rubbernuke]

... and one can only speculate as to how many of those YouTube accounts that voted actually own a copy of the game, noting that one can create as many YouTube accounts as one can be bothered to create.

And yet its still better than saying "there are huge numbers of us".

 

[Robert Maynard]

And yet its still better than saying "there are huge numbers of us".

There are huge numbers of copies of Elite Dangerous out there - c.13M (at least) - so 2.3k YouTube votes, with no guarantee of game ownership per YouTube account, isn't really that many.

 

[Darrack]

Open (in V1) is such an issue because it requires players to work- 'work' here defined as having ships that are not restricted by persistence, can strategize at a high and low level (i.e. formulate plans to expand, defend, attack etc). You can argue that some of that can be pan modal, but without the threat of actual intelligent pushback its only half the game- everything then becomes indirect.


I don't expect PP V2 to be Open only either, however I do expect Open to be weighted or have mitigations to prevent problems we see in V1. Taking actual data from streamer surveys and forum responses here the clear majority want some sort of change from the status quo. When Sandro asked his question, there was a 65% approval of Open (counting firm yes / no repsonses). OA did another poll of 7700 votes where it was 50% open, 25% weighted and 25% no change. More recently with V2 BuurPit:

View attachment 398663

Here the clear majority who voted want weighting which I can understand, given how V2 is closer to the BGS than V1s design.

In short, mode parity is not the way forward- FD know this, and all polls taken point that way too.


And? All the Kumo Crew, Feds, (most) Imps, don't (going by Discord). When I was with Utopia most people flew in Open.

The Polls are good and can provide ammunition from either side depending how you want to look at it.
I would be more interested to know the split of those polls between folks already doing PP and those who arnt, the whole idea for me is to get more people interested, im sure that's Fdevs idea also, otherwise its a waste of time redoing it.

O7

 

[Rubbernuke]

I was given an answer in that thread. The fact that you fly in the open and get more interest, that will be your reward for participating in the open.

I play games on harder difficulties to normally get more back. Why should I bother doing anything at a high level (skill, engineering, money, ships) otherwise?

 

[SergMx]

... and one can only speculate as to how many of those YouTube accounts that voted actually own a copy of the game, noting that one can create as many YouTube accounts as one can be bothered to create.

There's a figure of about 7,000 here, as I recall in the last СG there were about 7,000 people. I think the difference is the ones who hang around the galaxy.

 

[SergMx]

I play games on harder difficulties to normally get more back. Why should I bother doing anything at a high level (skill, engineering, money, ships) otherwise?

I agree with you, but there is no such thing in the game, when I tried to suggest it I was pelted ....

Now if I drive refugees around, I'll get a lot of money, but I can fall asleep at the game.
I have to play in AXCZ where I get 5 times less, but at least I do not keep me awake )

 

[Darrack]

There's a figure of about 7,000 here, as I recall in the last СG there were about 7,000 people. I think the difference is the ones who hang around the galaxy.

Many of us dont watch streamers

O7

 

[Rubbernuke]

There are huge numbers of copies of Elite Dangerous out there - c.13M (at least) - so 2.3k YouTube votes, with no guarantee of game ownership per YouTube account, isn't really that many.

I can work out how many people play Powerplay (and so can anyone else). Having help run two powers I could (and still can) map effort to people who pledge.

I can tell you with upmost confidence 13 million players do not play V1 as it is. If they did, the fortification numbers, UM, votes would not exactly match activity each week.

And again, its still actual numbers on the topic, unlike saying there are 13 million copies sold. How many multiboxes? How many play PP? Of those what is the mode split?

 

[SergMx]

Many of us dont watch streamers

O7

Yeah but 7000 participating in the last СG says something about the online game ...