Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[VR Golgot]

Wait, am I remembering things wrong or making things up thinking the original pitch for Star Citizen was supposed to NOT be a live service game? Chris Roberts said something about it not needing patch and be a complete game right? What I remembered sounded completely opposite of live service. Even the poll to expand scope didn't say it'll be a live service model?

Oh hell no, the opposite. Chrissy said they'd be slamming out DLC on a fortnightly basis. Like, solar-system sized DLC...

Source: https://youtu.be/Zqcw4SNBdkc?si=EjkcernNnCeo1v9H

Hmm, have there been any real wipe recently? I guess the database diapers are so messy no one is willing to wipe the tables' bums even with a barge pole, and take responsibility for backers rage.

3.23 had a wipe planned. (I seem to remember something went wrong with it, but ce'st la CIG ).

Because yeah, that's the thing. With their databases as they are, it's kinda immaterial

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1dfbqn5/psa_properly_stored_ships_purchased_with_auec_are

Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1dfbqn5/psa_properly_stored_ships_purchased_with_auec_are/

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Cool yep. But you see how your proposed solution is the opposite to what they're currently doing right? (Trying to expand the player count per location etc).

And when we take into account how that's going (IE interaction delays of 40secs+ for target player counts) I still don't get where the 'things are coming together' idea comes from.

Feature additions continue of course, but feature additions aren't steps to completion if the underlying architecture can't support them. (They're the paving stones to dev hell instead )

like i said tho... it isnt always broken, sometimes it DOES work!...... end of the day, time will tell i guess. i only have $60 or so invested in it. I will be gutted if it fails but not because i have a huge amount invested in it, but because, love em or hate em, its certainly an ambitious project. Maybe their scope is too great, i mean, freelancer was a decent game in the end but if a major publisher had not stepped in and cut it to size maybe that would never had launched either.

but i guess i just like that they are pushing the envelope.

 

[rootsrat]

like i said tho... it isnt always broken, sometimes it DOES work!...... end of the day, time will tell i guess. i only have $60 or so invested in it. I will be gutted if it fails but not because i have a huge amount invested in it, but because, love em or hate em, its certainly an ambitious project. Maybe their scope is too great, i mean, freelancer was a decent game in the end but if a major publisher had not stepped in and cut it to size maybe that would never had launched either.

but i guess i just like that they are pushing the envelope.

Ditto. I despise their predatory practices, I roll on the floor laughing at all the silly bugs and the absolute basics and foundations still being broken after all this time and money were spent on it, I swear at them for wasting hours of my time every single time I try to play SC, but end of the day, I actually love the concept and the immersion they are aiming for. Therefore I would love to get some sort of 1.0 version that would actually work as an actual game.

I hoped for Elite to go that way in terms of immersion and in-world-logic, but sadly it wasn't the case - and it pains me greatly, even though it still is THE BEST space sim (actual) game available and released.

Like you say, SC is WAY too ambitious and with someone who is not a narcissistic megalomaniac actually leading CIG (who inserts themselves into their own game as the saviour of humanity? jeez...), perhaps things would be different, but... it is what it is - a 12 year old broken mess, that works OK-ish 1 in 100 times.

 

[Fizzatron]

6 years.
Ha, beaten

No. Just avoided answering the question.

 

[VR Golgot]

but i guess i just like that they are pushing the envelope.

With $0.72bil raised and still no stable 1.0 close as we near the 10th anniversary of their launch target (Nov 2014)... This isn't pushing the envelope Mike. It's called stuffing it

(I get that you don't feel the burn with only $65 in, but it's the backers who spent big on the project who have made this whole folly possible. And there's a ton of them who regret it, and feel they were misled. Which they absolutely were. I honestly don't find anything laudable in any of that.)

 

[Skizomeuh]

3.23 had a wipe planned. (I seem to remember something went wrong with it, but ce'st la CIG ).

Because yeah, that's the thing. With their databases as they are, it's kinda immaterial

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1dfbqn5/psa_properly_stored_ships_purchased_with_auec_are

Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1dfbqn5/psa_properly_stored_ships_purchased_with_auec_are/

So yeah, I suspect they have hard times finding a solution to wipe the DB without making the whole mess collapse.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Wait, am I remembering things wrong or making things up thinking the original pitch for Star Citizen was supposed to NOT be a live service game? Chris Roberts said something about it not needing patch and be a complete game right? What I remembered sounded completely opposite of live service. Even the poll to expand scope didn't say it'll be a live service model?

The original pitch, parroted by the believers, was to release a complete product. When they started adding tons of stretch goals it became obvious (for all but the faithful) that it would require either decades of development or to be live service. But Chris Roberts said in one of his letters that more funding would enable quicker development, therefore no real delay in release. The believers lapped this up, everyone with even half a project management braincell understood Roberts to be talking out of the proverbial donkey.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

i cant remember.... so much was said back then they may have said anything... however as i remember it, S42 was a stand alone game, either single player or P2P coop with a friend (the coop i believe has now been canned) and then Star Citizen a live service MMO

The original pitch was a single game. You'd start in the single player part SQ42 (with drop-in/drop-out coop), and after that you would "graduate" to the "verse" as a full citizen.

 

[Fizzatron]

And there is a difference in that FD never said we would get everything we were sold at start or even soon. FD released and went through a couple of DLCs and failed to deliver on some of the things, but we've also been delivered a good portion of what was sold.

Not only that, but the game is still actively being developed after releasing a fully functional base game that provides the core experience of what the Kickstarter promised since 2014. Some may scoff for their own reasons, but as long as Elite remains profitable the promised DLC expansions are not off the table for the future.

Whereas with CIG they repeatedly made claims year after year, while remaining hidden behind its alpha. Making claims of still delivering a majority of functionality before release, Chris saying (in 2015) that by the end of the year backers would get everything they pledged for (and more), and when they tried to walk back on 100 systems at launch and the subsequent outrage, they backpedaled on that and tried to make out there would still be plenty of systems at launch... and here we are many years later. still only 1 system and maybe a part of a second.

I think you might agree there are differences in scale here.

They haven't even provided the basic core experience in a functional way.

Star Citizen:

 

[Agony_Aunt]

but i guess i just like that they are pushing the envelope.

Sorry, what envelopes would they be? 100 player servers? Tribes 2 had 128 in 2001. EvE online had a record breaking 6557 players (although time dilation slowed time to a crawl to achieve it). Planetside 2, 2000 players on a map, released 2012.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

but as long as Elite remains profitable the promised DLC expansions are not off the table for the future.

Yeah, but not holding my breath on that. If FD could turn it around a bit more, get player numbers up, more people buying the game and cosmetics, then just maybe....

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Sorry, what envelopes would they be? 100 player servers? Tribes 2 had 128 in 2001. EvE online had a record breaking 6557 players (although time dilation slowed time to a crawl to achieve it). Planetside 2, 2000 players on a map, released 2012.

i wasnt thinking about player numbers (like i have said, big numbers in a shard absolutely does not interest me so it is not something i think about), i mean the over all scope of the game....

ie go from getting up out of a seat in a space station walk through a few areas, get the train to the hangar, get in my ship, walk through my ship and sit at the seat, take off, fly to another planet, land, get out of my seat, walk to the back of my ship and jump into a vehicle, drive to a base, do a mission then fly back etc etc etc.

Elite now, post oddy sort of does a lot of that, but only with a lot of fade to black screens with bits cut out.......... The only other game i can think of which offers that is NMS, and i really respect that game as well, but its graphical style is not really my cup of tea and the fact that it is not hand curated at all is very obvious, its all a bit samey.

There is a lot to complain about with SC, and maybe it will fail, but imo not even acknowledging what it is they are trying to do, as well as how decent it can be when it works, is almost as biased as the massive fanboys who worship at the altar of CR.

what i would like to see would be a halfway house between elite D and star citizen because to me - and other people are free to disagree - but for me i think the content in elite has generally been on a downward trajectory since horizons. I still play.............. but mostly doing the same things now as i did in horizons. Its nice to see SC still at least to me to be aiming high.

 

[Ed02350]

Not only that, but the game is still actively being developed after releasing a fully functional base game that provides the core experience of what the Kickstarter promised since 2014. Some may scoff for their own reasons, but as long as Elite remains profitable the promised DLC expansions are not off the table for the future.


They haven't even provided the basic core experience in a functional way.

Star Citizen:
View attachment 401694

I was going to draw parallel between CIG and cosmetic industry. Producing a one off product that don't need continuous buy in is bad for business.

 

[ECity]

Confidence scams require the appearance of progress.

 

[Viajero]

There is a lot to complain about with SC, and maybe it will fail, but imo not even acknowledging what it is they are trying to do, as well as how decent it can be when it works, is almost as biased as the massive fanboys who worship at the altar of CR.

"I am sorry to be that guy but"... SC is not a case of having to be perceived as equally balanced in both critics and praise, else one is pigeonholed to be a hater or a white knight. SC has carved its own poor status through 10+ years of very deficient development leading to a majorly broken, and seriously incomplete product as of today after all that time and a historical world record project waste cost. It deserves significantly more critiques, eyebrow raises and memes than praise.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

"I am sorry to be that guy but"... SC is not a case of having to be perceived as equally balanced in both critics and praise, else one is pigeonholed to be a hater or a white knight. SC has carved its own status through 10+ years of very deficient development leading to a majorly broken, and seriously incomplete product as of today after all that time and a record breaking project cost. It deserves significantly more critiques, eyebrow raises and memes than praise.

well i did say almost as biased as the fanboys

That said, given that anyone who is even remotely interested in SC should know about it now, the good and the bad is out there and very easy to find........ so the fact that some people are still seemingly happy to throw money at it, as well as those still putting many hours into playing it and presumably enjoying it.................... not everyone thinks it is completely crap and without its plus points. The funny thing is, on other forums i post on (i dont post on many) but generally it is usually me the one who is the one who is posting disappointment about it, where as here i seem to be one of the minority who has anything positive to say about it at all.

They have regular events where the game is 100% free to play, and in general during those events the game works really badly.... .worse than normal..... So really anyone who plays that, doesnt like what they see and then still puts in cash.................... that would have to be mind numbingly stupid wouldn't it?

 

[VR Golgot]

not even acknowledging what it is they are trying to do, as well as how decent it can be when it works

Who isn't acknowledging that SC can be fun when it works?

SC can be fun when it works!

There you go

That just doesn't give it a pass for all the other things that are wrong with its production. The things you are repeatedly gliding over as if they weren't there.

It doesn't help that 'what they are trying to do' is a key part of the problem though. It's incredibly obvious that they are trying to do more than they are capable of delivering. Like, incredibly, massively obvious. You acknowledge it yourself when you suggest things like 'cut the scope to make it playable'.

But they've charged huge amounts in advance for those dangled dreams dear Mike. Which they can't seem to deliver. And which they can't really cut from their list, being that they've sold them. (Those $1K+ capital ships kinda need magic networking up the wazoo to work, for a start).

So what to do?

Laud box missions that sporadically work? Ok then...

 

[Agony_Aunt]

i wasnt thinking about player numbers (like i have said, big numbers in a shard absolutely does not interest me so it is not something i think about), i mean the over all scope of the game....

ie go from getting up out of a seat in a space station walk through a few areas, get the train to the hangar, get in my ship, walk through my ship and sit at the seat, take off, fly to another planet, land, get out of my seat, walk to the back of my ship and jump into a vehicle, drive to a base, do a mission then fly back etc etc etc.

Elite now, post oddy sort of does a lot of that, but only with a lot of fade to black screens with bits cut out.......... The only other game i can think of which offers that is NMS, and i really respect that game as well, but its graphical style is not really my cup of tea and the fact that it is not hand curated at all is very obvious, its all a bit samey.

There is a lot to complain about with SC, and maybe it will fail, but imo not even acknowledging what it is they are trying to do, as well as how decent it can be when it works, is almost as biased as the massive fanboys who worship at the altar of CR.

what i would like to see would be a halfway house between elite D and star citizen because to me - and other people are free to disagree - but for me i think the content in elite has generally been on a downward trajectory since horizons. I still play.............. but mostly doing the same things now as i did in horizons. Its nice to see SC still at least to me to be aiming high.

CIG might aim high, but their aim is about as good as mine at darts after 10 beers.

Also, a lot of what you describe in SC about getting up, going to ship, etc, is just a time sink.

You can do more or less the same in Starfield, although more black screens and jumps than ED, but while you can walk through your ship in Starfield, i bet most players use the teleport to cockpit because walking through the ship every time gets old. Immersion has its place in games, but when its something you have to do every time, it gets old quick.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

CIG might aim high, but their aim is about as good as mine at darts after 10 beers.

Also, a lot of what you describe in SC about getting up, going to ship, etc, is just a time sink.

You can do more or less the same in Starfield, although more black screens and jumps than ED, but while you can walk through your ship in Starfield, i bet most players use the teleport to cockpit because walking through the ship every time gets old. Immersion has its place in games, but when its something you have to do every time, it gets old quick.

i generally disagree with you on whether ship interiors and not having fast travel is a good thing or not ............ but i did LOL with your reply

 

[Red Martian]

With $0.72bil raised and still no stable 1.0 close as we near the 10th anniversary of their launch target (Nov 2014)... This isn't pushing the envelope Mike. It's called stuffing it

(I get that you don't feel the burn with only $65 in, but it's the backers who spent big on the project who have made this whole folly possible. And there's a ton of them who regret it, and feel they were misled. Which they absolutely were. I honestly don't find anything laudable in any of that.)

This. Me and my $600 were brought in on the basis that the game was about to be released, Pyro was about to be released as a system, and everything else was becoming so modular it would be done in a matter of months, and I was excited for that, and I believed it for about two years, before I realized something was very rotten under the hood. I stepped back, examined everything critically, and saw that I was being had. I spent no more money after that. I've been part of it for 6 years now, and I see new backers hearing the same thing I did in 2018, and it's clear that all of it is a blatant lie. It is a lie. They are lying. On purpose. For money.

I don't care about anyone's so-called good intentions. At this point they are engaging in a ponzi scheme, a money scam, a con game. Chris Roberts is a liar, and a thief. He is not a good person, and neither are the people at the top who surround him, because they're just as complicit in this.