To keep playing Elite Dangerous

At fdevs

I'm a casual adult mature player (35+ y/o) and I used to love playing ED on my PC rig... but not anymore...
A you were one of the younger players according to a survey carried out years before you started.
Do you want to know why I don't play anymore and as such I have little to no interest in spending real money on the premium currency... I just spent over $150 US $$ on ESO so some of my money go to ZeniMax and implicitly to Bethesda and ultimately to Microsoft since it owns it all...

My point is I could also spend that money with Elite Dangerous and with Frontier... here is why I don't do it...

I'm not a pilot fighter and I also have no interest in pvp (I'm sick and tired of PvP from Eve Online and GTA Online and such other games)... So I'm not looking for PvP or tough combat challenges in ED..
That is fine as far as PvP goes, it is completely optional, but Elite has never been an easy game to play since it’s first incarnation five years before you were born.
So I try to mind my own business moving pax in a beluga liner and what do you know, a thargoig is attacking and killing me in the bubble...not once but twice since in my naivete I was thinking I was unlucky the first time...

Then I switched to space trucking and trying to move some goods in my T9 cargo ship and what do you know, pirates are attacking me and killing me and obliterating my cargo and ship with me unable to escape - as I was doing it successfully in the past - or unable to defend myself against a elite NPC pirate that attacks me... sadly it happened twice until I gave up entirely on playing...
You can avoid being interdicted in a T9 but it takes some practice and effort, surrendering means you could escape faster but you need to sacrifice some cargo space to things like better shields and or an SLF, as long as you have Report Crimes Against Me on that could buy you enough time for the cavalry to arrive while you wait to be able to jump.

As others have mentioned many of the NPCs you will encounter are based on your or the missions ranks, if you have just ranked up or gotten friendly enough with the factions giving the missions that they are offering higher ranks that could make the difference.
I'm not sure if you - fdevs - get my point... this is not fun to me... I have no friends to team up with and escort my ships and defend me against NPC pirates or Thargoid attacking me, and no one would do it anyway for free...
Many of us are in the same situation but escorting would be tricky anyway I suspect.
So what was fun once it's not fun anymore...the balancing changed and the PVE became more challenging, at least for a dumb player as myself...
There have been no changes to standard NPCs for years but as said if your rank increases due to you making enough money from trading and passengers you will encounter a more difficult NPC.
Hence I don't play anymore...
Sorry to hear that
Not to mention the exorbitant price of acquiring a carrier... I might return and pay some real money when I can skip the grind - again I'm a casual player and as such I don't enjoy grinding - so I might return when you decide to sell a carrier for real money arx so I can try it and say I did that too...
Don’t take this wrong but many of us would really hate to see that.
And I'm sure like me there are some other players thinking and feeling the same but not taking the time (as I do) to find the suggestions thread and post their opinions...

Either way that's why I don't play ED anymore and chances for me to spend real money on the game are slim to none...make a carrier available for arx real money at a fair price and I might come back to try it...

Look at ESO by Bethesda and ZeniMax... it's a joy to do PVE and socialize with others, because NPCs rarely kill us... and I'm the same dumb player there too it's not like I'm more powerful there... but their balancing is better the NPCs are not so tough to kill, the focus is to clear content and get the rewards, not to fight challenging tough NPCs...tho' that's possible too in special zones for those players that need that kind of a fix...


if you think everyone is on steroids and wanting a harder challenge you - fdevs decisions makers - are wrong at the core...

ED should be also about exploration and the joy of flying a ship and landing on a planet and taking off and making virtual cash in the process...
It is and as soon as you start flying a ship with no cargo or passengers, in regions outside the Thargoid war zone you are unlikely to be shot at again.
not just about tough fighting with thargoids and NPC pirates...

yes I know the biological exploration is available for us but again the rewards vs efforts are unbalanced... hence the balancing needs work...
The biological exploration is so unbalanced that finding around 80 of the right plant, 360 if you use a “road-to-riches” list will get you a fleet carrier. The effort is just flying a ship landing on planets three times each then taking off to find more systems and planets.
That assuming you - Frontier - want us to spend real money on ED...

Thank you for reading my feedback...

Now if you were prepared to make fewer credits per run and fly a T7 you would almost never lose the interdictions so would be as carefree as you were before you made Elite in trade.
 
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Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
To do 50-100 jumps, to land on planets after exploring the system, to check for biological things, to sample them, to take off the planet and rinse and repeat... it's not worth it... it's too tedious and time consuming while the rewards are too small...

As a space trucker I can make 20 Mil per jump... If the NPC pirates won't kill me...
which is why I need a T9 for cargo room for 744 tons... otherwise it's not worth it... I can't haul that with a nimble Python or Anaconda...
You can land on a planet in the bubble, scan one type of plant and make 20 million. The rewards for exobiology have been huge for a few years now.

You need to refresh yourself with the game before dismissing parts of it.
Anyway my post is for fdevs so they can draw conclusions... not for you mate...
This is a discussion forum. If you think the thread has run it's course you can report it and ask it to be closed, but you can't choose who posts here. You can control who you reply to though :)
 
That's not possible. Explanation for the title is more or less lost in time and obviously not clear enough that no new player coming to Elite will understand it any differently than by basic definition of the word. If person that thought it out did not consider the most obvious interpretation, then they did terrible job.
I remember listening to David Braben explaining it on some video. For minutes he made it more and more confusing and I remember thinking that it was probably the worst possible choice - if you need quarter of an hour to explain what the title means, you did something wrong there.
It would have been way less confusing if - having come up with such a convoluted and unnecessary explanation for their "we thought it sounded cool" marketing decision - they'd actually got around at any point to implementing it in the game (which is probably why Frontier haven't mentioned it since the Kickstarter days).

It'd have been a surprisingly niche feature to have allegedly named the game after - it'd still be like calling it "Elite: Megaship Hacking" or "Elite: Skimmer Components" - but it would have made slightly more sense.
 
Hi :)
I'm not a pilot fighter and I also have no interest in pvp (I'm sick and tired of PvP from Eve Online and GTA Online and such other games)... So I'm not looking for PvP or tough combat challenges in ED..

So I try to mind my own business moving pax in a beluga liner and what do you know, a thargoig is attacking and killing me in the bubble...not once but twice since in my naivete I was thinking I was unlucky the first time...

Then I switched to space trucking and trying to move some goods in my T9 cargo ship and what do you know, pirates are attacking me and killing me and obliterating my cargo and ship with me unable to escape - as I was doing it successfully in the past - or unable to defend myself against a elite NPC pirate that attacks me... sadly it happened twice until I gave up entirely on playing...

I'm not sure if you - fdevs - get my point... this is not fun to me... I have no friends to team up with and escort my ships and defend me against NPC pirates or Thargoid attacking me, and no one would do it anyway for free...

So what was fun once it's not fun anymore...the balancing changed and the PVE became more challenging, at least for a dumb player as myself...

Hence I don't play anymore...

Not to mention the exorbitant price of acquiring a carrier...

As you can see, I've abbreviated your post a little...I hope you don't mind :)

I also consider myself as a 'mature' player too, (73 yrs old here). I have no interest in PVP either...but still, I have the choice of 'risking it' if I choose to play in open, knowing the places and situations where this might occur is a calculated risk, a balance if you will in the sense of what I'm prepared to lose...or gain, which covers several scenarios, which I won't go into here. Suffice to say I mainly play in the Solo mode, but not always. I'm happy that there is an open mode though, it's another choice.

Okay, lets take your experiences with 'Space Trucking'. Yes, been there (I still do on occasion). My own experience's?....I eventually learned that if you want to take those higher paying trade missions (and also 'stack' them) then as others have said you either learn to wake out successfully when interdicted or the other choice is fight, but there are also other ways to survive the encounter, which can be interesting and fun.

I choose to fight most of the time, It's quicker, I usually get some good bounty credits, and also because no pirate is going to take my hard earned cargo!...if my shields start to go down quick I'm perhaps going to run...it's less expensive... but that doesn't happen very often.
Anyway, that means I need a ship that's up to the task, I've never bought a T9 btw. my early experiences with trade and / or courier missions I used the Python, Cobra or Imp. Courier. Only buy what you can afford to lose really, I couldn't realistically afford anything bigger than those three ships at the time, and taking into account the rebuy cost as well....a T9 wasn't going to be a good choice to my way of thinking at that stage.

Nowadays I mainly use a Cutter for trading, but It's kitted out like a battle ship, plenty of power to spare, engineered shields, armour, shield boosters, weapons and defence modules all top grade engineered stuff. Okay, it's probably considered overkill by some players for a trading ship, but my cargo capacity is around the 528 mark, and there's not many situations in solo where I feel unduly threatened by pirates...but that as I've mentioned it mostly depends on what cargo missions I take on and who I'm trading for. I feel much more confident when trading or doing missions now in solo...I probably wouldn't last five minutes in some open play PVP scenario's with other PVP players though, but at least the npc's are not usually a problem.

Yes, I understand some of the frustrations that the game presents as you're trying to progress, but that also can be alleviated to some degree by not overstretching yourself too much in the early stages, I agree, it's not much fun loosing a ship and also cargo when you haven't got many credits to spare. I've 'lost' perhaps a few dozen ships (perhaps more) over the course of my total gameplay time, and some quite expensive rebuys too!

As for acquiring a Carrier...I personally didn't like or see the reasons for owning a Carrier at first either, but now I've got one I wouldn't be without it. It's so useful in many ways, especially for exploration and mining.
Upkeep costs seem daunting, especially I would imagine if you only play the game occasionally. I play the game most days, perhaps a little too much methinks :)...so upkeep costs for me are fortunately not much of a priority. You can cover that weekly cost with just a few bio scans, mining, exploration or several other activities within the game.

My Advice is play the game how you want to play it, but also realise there are limitations within the game if you've not prepared enough in the sense of your ship capabilities. Engineering isn't necessarily needed to bring your ship up to a level where pirate encounters become less troublesome, but it does make the experience more enjoyable to know you can positively fight back should the need arise. Also If you want to socialise with other players then consider perhaps joining a pve group, If you would rather play in open mode you have to realise there are risks involved, depending on where and when you play. As I've said, I play mostly in solo, it suits me personally for many reasons, but I can also still influence the game as a whole in certain circumstances, and even in solo I am aware (and happy with) that I'm playing the game with others and not just with npc's.

(I don't have many dealings with Thargoids, as long as they keep out of my way I'll keep out of theirs! ;) ).

Jack :)
 
Unfortunately the galaxy is uniformly bland. There is no difference between one part of the galaxy and another. If they lowered the risk to the level you found acceptable it would drive others away instead. It's a no win situation they created...with their uniformly bland galaxy.
 
Thank you guys for sharing your thoughts...

I'm Elite just in trading and mainly because of buying low and selling high as a space trucker which I enjoy...

I'm novice in combat because I don't engage in combat because it's not my thing in ED...the NPC pirates that attacked me in my T9 were Elite which is unfair and it happened since the last 2-3 updates when something changed in the balancing of the game...

Yes I have cargo in the hauler otherwise why would I roam around empty..??.. the thing is that I used to be able to avoid interdictors and run away or if not I used to be able to defend myself with the T9 because the NPC pirates were novice in the past now they are Elite in combat while I'm novice in combat...my point is that something changed and that's not fun to me...

Thargoids in the bubble attacking my beluga transporting pax (passengers) is new to me also, I'm not talking out of the bubble in systems controlled or invaded by thargoids I'm talking in the bubble in systems that are NOT disputed by thargoids...

And I'll have to agree with the one that commented against the real nonsense that's why is called "Dangerous"...

My friend "Dangerous" in ED is a misnomer...if you want to know and feel what "Dangerous" is try Eve Online where I'm a somewhat successful resident since 2006... that's why I've said I'm sick and tired of PvP because for years I've lived and breathed only PvP in Eve to this day... I joined ED to relax and have fun...if I want "Dangerous" Eve is the right gane...

Once again I'm a casual player hence I don't grind for engineering and I don't have engineered ships and modules I just don't have the time and energy to do it...so I try to have fun with basic vanilla ships so to speak... and I get ganked by NPCs much powerful than me...

My post is in fact for the fdevs hoping they monitor this section and collect data for the decisions makers... I was trying to tell them why I gave up on ED why I feel no drive to log in often and why I feel no desire to spend real money on ED... assuming they'd like to know about it... and why I spend my time and money with games like ESO, because it's fun, because it's not so hard to kill the NPCs in pve and get rewards for it... and that's why they got my real money too... because it's fun and relaxing...

While ED is tedious to chase the engineering or to grind for a carrier and it's frustrating to lose ships and cargo to much powerful NPCs... that's not fun to me and that defeats the purpose of playing a game... I play a game to have fun not to be frustrated losing ships and cargo or to have a second job grinding for virtual cash so I can buy a carrier...

Thank you guys for reading and sharing your thoughts...

I just wish the fdevs would read and understand the reasons I gave up on ED... I have the Odyssey and I enjoyed at first...then the balancing changed...fdevs know what I'm talking about... now I barely log in once every 6 months or so just to look at my ships 'cause otherwise it's not worth it to actually fly... I can't do space trucking no more... I can't do passengers transport no more... I can't grind for engineering and a carrier... so I'm out playing other games that are more fun...

And I feel sad about it because I really liked ED... it's our galaxy for a playground and can be fun, used to be fun...
I didn't realise you were an auld hand at Elite. Sorry about the "how to suck eggs" advice. when you say "the thing is that I used to be able to avoid interdictors and run away" do you mean you used to be able to win the interdiction minigame, or do you mean you never let the NPCs get behind to interdict you in the first place?

The NPCs used to be quite bad at interdicting. It's been years since one has managed to pull me out of SuperCruise. But I don't know if FDev have dialled them up a notch. Ever since I got an SCO I can't remember being caught by one
 
I have a quote that fits perfectly:

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
 
I’ve never had a T9, is it hard to win the interdiction game against NPCs? It’s easy in everything I’ve flown (my biggest ship is an anaconda).

Can a T9 not shield tank and high wake from NPCs? Just stick a decent sized engineered shield in and a few shield boosters? It’s so big I can’t imagine any NPC will mass lock it?
 
seriously, I cannot understand how people can fly a T9 without a gun to their head. Or a cargo cutter for that matter. Last time I hauled in one was during the Tritium CG, and after a handful trips I decided I'd rather do three trips in a cargo Anaconda than two trips in one of those behemoths. And even that was borderline; in the end I did my hauling in a 294t paper Python and enjoyed the flying so much more, and still made a boatload of credits and trading Elite V by accident. It is like pulling teeth in those large ships.

Rant over.
 
seriously, I cannot understand how people can fly a T9 without a gun to their head. Or a cargo cutter for that matter. Last time I hauled in one was during the Tritium CG, and after a handful trips I decided I'd rather do three trips in a cargo Anaconda than two trips in one of those behemoths. And even that was borderline; in the end I did my hauling in a 294t paper Python and enjoyed the flying so much more, and still made a boatload of credits and trading Elite V by accident. It is like pulling teeth in those large ships.

Rant over.
Agreed. Both of my T9's stay on their respective commanders' carriers. Their only purpose is transferring tritium. I only buy tritium with a T9 when I can park on top of the source station, so no pirates.
 
seriously, I cannot understand how people can fly a T9 without a gun to their head. Or a cargo cutter for that matter. Last time I hauled in one was during the Tritium CG, and after a handful trips I decided I'd rather do three trips in a cargo Anaconda than two trips in one of those behemoths. And even that was borderline; in the end I did my hauling in a 294t paper Python and enjoyed the flying so much more, and still made a boatload of credits and trading Elite V by accident. It is like pulling teeth in those large ships.

Rant over.
How varied we are.
In that CG I flew both T9 and later the Cutter, I am not sure when I last used an Anaconda for bulk hauling. I think it is setup for surface mining now after being superseded as my old style burning station rescue ship by a Corvette.
The T9 was my ship of choice for hauling Beryllium from the bubble to the WitchHead for station repairs.
 
So I try to mind my own business moving pax in a beluga liner and what do you know, a thargoig is attacking and killing me in the bubble...not once but twice since in my naivete I was thinking I was unlucky the first time...
Thargoids only attack you if you are in a thargoid-controlled system or if you are carrying something of theirs (which I doubt is the case because that stuff is corrosive; unless you are telling me that you were hauling corrosive thargoid commodities?) I believe they don't attack you anymore even if you were carrying meta alloys (they used to, in the past, but it's my understanding they don't anymore.)

So you either were in a thargoid controlled system (which is quite hard to not notice), or you attacked them when they hyperdicted you.
 
I’ve never had a T9, is it hard to win the interdiction game against NPCs?

No.

Can a T9 not shield tank and high wake from NPCs? Just stick a decent sized engineered shield in and a few shield boosters?

A T9 can certainly be made durable enough to largely ignore NPCs without sacrificing large amounts of cargo. This is easier to do with HRPs than with a shield generator though. Omitting shields also leaves room for PDTs and ECMs, which (when used correctly) can negate most FSD shutdown and hatchbreak attempts.

It’s so big I can’t imagine any NPC will mass lock it?

T9 masslock factor is not high because mass has nothing to do with masslock. A Krait can masslock it.

However, masslock doesn't apply to high-waking either, only low-waking.

seriously, I cannot understand how people can fly a T9 without a gun to their head. Or a cargo cutter for that matter. Last time I hauled in one was during the Tritium CG, and after a handful trips I decided I'd rather do three trips in a cargo Anaconda than two trips in one of those behemoths.

The T9 actually maneuvers a bit better in SC than the Anaconda does...not quite as nimble in normal space, but it's never bothered me as much as the Cutter.

The NPCs used to be quite bad at interdicting. It's been years since one has managed to pull me out of SuperCruise. But I don't know if FDev have dialled them up a notch.

They haven't.
 
A T9 loaded with cargo will periodically get interdicted by pirates. A lower-skilled pilot flying a low-engineered T9 cargo ship has a reasonable chance of losing the interdiction and then being destroyed.

I believe it is expected that by the time a cmdr has reached Elite in some category they should have enough experience with the game to know this. Or figure this out really quick and adapt their methods. Of course this might not be true if a cmdr spent all their time in deep space exploring. In this particular case the cmdr got their Elite in trade, which means they should have gained sufficient experience where NPC dangers exist. Unfortunately ED is a game where a player can progress through perseverance rather than skill and knowledge.


Edit:
This might also be a good example of easy credit flow hurts the learning curve of new players. A new player can easily purchase an overpowered ship relative to the NPCs and play the game in "easy mode" without learning much. Until... the player advances in ranks and the game becomes more challenging but the player hasn't learned much.
 
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Nowadays I only use my T9's for loading tritium or similar bulk haulage (including the occasional haulage CG), not for cargo-delivery missions (which attract mission enemies), that's what my Cutter is for. When I do get attacked by pirates in a T9, I've noticed that winning the interdiction is both difficult and time-consuming (even if I can win in the end, it takes time), but my T9's are tough enough to just submit to interdiction, boost, and carry on when the FSD has cooled down.
 
A T9 loaded with cargo will periodically get interdicted by pirates. A lower-skilled pilot flying a low-engineered T9 cargo ship has a reasonable chance of losing the interdiction and then being destroyed.
With a little bit of practice no.

I spent a lot of time back in the days before carriers doing station repair work with a T9, admittedly I did try to reduce my risk of being interdicted but I found that after a short bit of practice that I was winning them all the time.

As far as I remember the only engineering I had back then was the FSD and maybe a low grade on the thrusters, I had shields but that was because stations under repair had no auto-docking available.

One thing I have not seen mentioned yet, have you tried out the new SCO frame shift drive, I have uprated 2 of my T9's, yes I admit they are not the optimum ship to outfit with them but they work, another option later this month is to try out the new T8 or even better if you are willing to buy one with ARX you would also have free rebuy's.
 
I'm also one of the players who avoid combat and PvP in general- I'm also tired of this from other MMOs. Right now all I do in game is getting weekly ARX limit. I am planning to move to colonia area, just to unlock engineers I need on 2nd account but I want to do it when I have something else to do while watching FC jump counter in the background.
I have two favorite ships for trading and doing missions: Python and Imperial Cutter. Both are engineered for speed (boost included) and low heat emissions- a setup that allows me to escape or avoid combat. Interdiction game is quite easy for me since in the past when I was grinding my imperial and federal ranks I used to take lots of missions between two bases in the same system- interdiction count midflight was insane (I recall something like 20 per one run), partially due to hostile NPC hunting me were staying in the same system even when missions were completed. It was annoying but turned out to be excellent training for things like neutron jumps or avoiding interdictions in heavier ships too.
I also think game is too focused on combat, but it still has some other interesting aspects (for me ship engineering is one of those) that make me return to play longer from time to time.
 
I also think game is too focused on combat,
Sorry, but that's rather like saying that a new Call of Duty game is too focused on online gameplay. The games in the series have all had a successful formula, one based on a significant amount of the game being based around combat. Yes, it's avoidable, same as it was in the previous iterations, but every game in the series has attempted to impose combat on you. No way were they going to deviate from something that worked in the previous three games.
 
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