Isn't the entire point of making PP 2.0 Open Only that defenders can stop players hauling rather than them doing it in secret in solo or PG? If that isn't the point and no-one is actually going to be attacking the haulers, as you seem to imply, then what's the point of making them move to Open?
Open-Only in PP2.0?
- Thread starter August Lagrange
- Start date
Isn't the entire point of making PP 2.0 Open Only that defenders can stop players hauling rather than them doing it in secret in solo or PG? If that isn't the point and no-one is actually going to be attacking the haulers, as you seem to imply, then what's the point of making them move to Open?
No.
"Open-Only in PP2.0" is misleading title of the thread.
No one wants to move it to Open Only, it's just a cry of small loud crew starved of victims. And their point in wishful moving everybody to Open is to hawhaw with their G5 murderboats, killing the haulers. That's why they opened this thread, not FD.
The comment was specifically referring to another players post, not the thread title in general, that's why the "quote" function was used to quote another players post.
Well they can, there are several ways that are fair and make sense.
The most logical one is effort per week- as you do more you get more resistance in return given effort is uncapped. This in turn means people who dip in and out won't have this while top guns in the top 10 get rival powers full attention. It makes perfect sense that rivals target the 'aces', and it also gives opportunities for more personal contact with a power with advisory messages.
NPC wise we have souped up NPCs like CZ Captains, Spec Ops, even ATR like vessels. There is nothing to stop the % of PP POIs and USS being traps and ambushes as you rise up the ranks, or your own powers giving you harder 'prestige' missions (akin to the ones you get in the message box) where you fight harder enemies.
In the end its like having a large bounty on your head and pursued by BH NPCs (or similar to the defection police) just dialed up to 11. So for the number one guy you are simultaneously rewarded the most out of all your power, but are also enemy number one as far as other powers at the same time.
It is a fine balance, but a feature also has to grow with a player otherwise they'll become bored. V2 has the rewards in place (loads of them- money, perks, materials, modules, ARX) so now we need legroom, otherwise people will just stop after tier 10.
If thats the case, why is it pure hauling powers like Winters like Open?
Have to disagree. While a lot of the supporters of this change are just no-life murder hobos who think it will bring fresh meat, you have true supporters like @Rubbernuke who truly believe it will improve the game/feature. We can disagree all we want, but I wouldn't question his motives or others like him. Nobody has spent more time on this forum making suggestions and listening to feedback on how to make PP better than ol' Rubber.
I do hope you're not claiming all Winters supporters are in Open? I presume you are referring to the subset of supporters who are aligned on a particular group/discord who all claim to do all their work in open.
Especially since the whole "you just want more targets to gank!" nonsense is always and forever will be a strawman.
I don't see any demands for exploration to be made open-only, or material-gathering, or the thargoid war. Nobody cares what mode people are in for things that make their personal numbers go up. Hell, I've said repeatedly on the subject of piracy that I would prefer people to play in private/solo to them playing in open and logging out the instant I get within arm's reach.
The major issue that always comes up with the hotel california threads is the fundamental issue that some people don't like it when other people can affect their game but can't be affected in turn. It's funny how the other thread had someone bring up the sandcastle kicking analogy - go figure that some people don't like it when someone sneaks onto their beach while they're not looking and kicks over their sandcastle.
If you want to affect other people then it seems only fair that you can be affected in turn. And yes, that especially includes affecting them using a method that happens to be your preferred gameplay and can only be countered by them not doing their preferred gameplay.
Here is another thing that annoys me, who is "hiding"??
If I want to haul in Solo or a PG, I'm not "hiding" - I am using an advertised game feature.
The Current Steam page;
The Kickstarter page from 2012 which is still there today (link below);
Elite: Dangerous
Take a ship and 100 credits to make money legally or illegally - trade, bounty-hunt, pirate, assassinate your way across the galaxy.
I'm playing the game, as consistently advertised since day one.
I * am * not * hiding * I * am * playing * the * game * I * bought.
The majority of them are, because currently groups like FUC represent nearly all players who actually engage with PP for the Feds and not shop.
Its like when I was helping run Utopia, I could tell you exactly the % of people in Open who actually did the work of Pranav- mainly as it was about fifteen people and that it mapped directly to effort seen in game.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
From the posts of some of those seeking Open only it's pretty clear that they want more targets to shoot at. YMMV.
Some want Solo and Private Groups removed completely so....
Players in Open affect the gameplay of those in Solo and Private Groups using exactly the same levers that those in Solo and Private Groups have to affect the mode shared galaxy.
Every player affects the BGS - so players in Open already affect those in Solo and Private Groups and vice versa. Unless there's some unwritten rule that only players in Open should be able to affect the game?
Exactly. In the wider game I have no problem at all with multi modes, its only in Powerplay where there is strategic advantage from ducking the existence of peer level ships and capabilities. Its why solo Powerplay needs far better NPC response, or that solo remains as it is and open gets weighting.
What I find crazy is some here hold the view Powerplay Open is harder and a bloodbath, and yet those in that whirlpool of death should not be rewarded for braving it.
So where are all the "Open Only" hauler pilots posting then?
Do you have links to hundreds of hours of Open Mode hauling videos?
Because from what I have seen, it seems an awful lot like only the people with murder boats are the ones trying to force people into Open Mode.
Of course, I could be wrong, just point me at the hundreds of videos of someone in a T9, explaining why it's better to haul in Open (while playing in Open) and I'll happily sit and watch every minute of them doing it and consider their points.
I've seen it, back in version one of the S.O.G threads. Feel free to go and have a look. It's also where the hypocrisy really started to shine when people complained of being shot at when coming back with exploration data and the same people demanding open-only content told them to stop whining and play Solo.
You are always affected by other people's actions in this game, in every mode. So saying people are not affected by others' actions is wrong.
I have had systems change factions on me and the mission boards stopped giving my faction missions due to people in other modes playing for the opposing faction.
You cannot escape that in any mode.
And after PP2 comes out, it will be even more obvious with the powers being tied in even more.
15 people working for a power. That's just sad. But if those people are already all in open, making it open only ain't going to change much.
While you are right about the BGS, the BGS is not explicitly competitive with disparate powers, have Top 10 pilots, and have defined phases of expansion or tugs of war.
V2 has all of that, and tells you in no uncertain terms (unlike the BGS little bars) the strength and number of opposition. I also assume V2 will have bounty boards for Powerplay like V1 did, so you can map others directly to Powerplay shenanigans.
As such open (where you can neuter opponents directly) should be seen as something different to solo.
You also can't opt out of the BGS (short of working exclusively in BGS-locked systems like shindez etc) whereas powerplay is explicitly a thing you have to opt in to.
How do you know that? Also Utopia is probably the smallest Power by far.
Ah, and this is back to the crux of the matter.
Who is actually being brave? The people hauling goods who stand to lose from dying or those sitting in combat ships looking for targets who lose nothing except a rebuy should they miraculously be killed?
Why should a hauler have to be brave when those seeking to stop them don't have to be?
The only way I can see of balancing that out would be for there only to be one ship type or a very limited number of them with very limited configurations that have all been carefully configured to be balanced against each other. That way everyone flying in open is on an equal footing.
Then we can talk about who is being brave or not.
This is why in your typical PvP game, especially Arena games, either everyone is exactly the same in terms of abilities, eg: Quake 3, or the differences are balanced (or at least close), eg: Overwatch, etc.
I don't know for sure, but it speaks volumes about the popularity of powerplay 1 if one of 11 powers is so poorly supported. I can't imagine them being much more popular with PP2. As you say, other powers are bigger, by far. I'd be interested in knowing what "by far" actually means. Are we talking tens of regular players? Hundreds? Thousands? Unlikely considering the size of the player base in total.
How many people regularly play ED? A few thousand? Ten thousand? 20? 30? How many people are interested (or would be interested) in PP, either mixed mode or open only? Are we even talking double digit % of players? 50% or more seems a stretch. Even 20% might be pushing it.
With PP2, even getting a couple of thousand players regularly engaging over 12 powers, you're not looking at huge numbers. I'd guess less than 100 supporters of a particular power on at any given time of the day, much worse for an unpopular power.
I suppose based on that, i can understand why you'd want everyone in open. Even if it was, chances of meeting another player from your own or an opposing power is still going to be pretty slim unless its a busy system.
Finally, keep in mind, that while open only might attract some players, it might turn off some players. Then keep in mind which sorts of players open only would attract and which sorts of players it would turn away.
Because ED is not a game where everything is evenly matched in everything you do and that situations will throw up problems- remember the you v the uncaring galaxy'? Powerplay takes this further where you are told to expect trouble in service- through a series of your own choices you'll come across a situation thats difficult.
I've thought in similar terms for 'standard' Power ships, except that its a choice, and you get free rebuys when used.
Just to quote myself and say something in favour of PP2, at least PP2 is going to allow a wider range of activities. No need to haul stuff as one (or more) of the major activities. There will be no need for anyone to be flying a weak trade ship to engage in PP any more, it will be purely by choice. Everyone can fly combat ships if they want to help their powers, and this does level the playing field.
Shame for the murder hobos of course.