Preparing for PZ2 metawishlist
- Thread starter Stygi
- Start date
I thought the point of not having a separate list is exactly because we don't want to assume. The idea of the list with all possible species is that we get a good indication of which animals are considered most needed, regardless of whether they were in PZ1.
I think doing one list is fine. Obviously considering PZ1 animals the size of entries I think should be pretty high. Like PZ1 has a lot of essential animals, but if I were to make a list of all the PZ1 animals I could easily get to 100 before I even mention anything new!
So like I said earlier it’s best to make it as easy as possible.
- Have one list, comprising of old and new animals you deem essential to PZ.
- Every species is fair game, and no distinction should be made for exhibit, habitat, aviary, etc.
- No subspecies, just list the animal you want. I get subspecies are important, but it’s also equally important for the people doing the tallying.
- Max amount I think is 150-200. Obviously a good amount of animals are returning in the sequel, but the sequel will also have new animals too. So PZ2 starting with that amount seems right.
Just throwing it out there that I can volunteer some of my time to sort through data if need be 
Agree with the four points. Not sure what you mean by separating per continent. Obviously players' needs depend on the location of their zoos. Hence, my list is likely to have more tropical Asian species.
As long as everybody puts one list in the same format, I don't think it matters how you group/order them. I do think it would be good to give some restrictions on the format. For practical reasons, I'd say that all lists need to be submitted as an (un)ordered list without headings. This will make it easier to copy-paste everything into a database (at least for the way I managed the foliage list).
I think the problem with including PZ1 species is that depending on the size of the list a lot of people will just include species we already have, which to me kind of defeats the point as Frontier will have more data on species we want to keep (when most people want the whole roster back anyway) than new species people want.
There are just a few animals that i don't care if we get them back or not. I think the most basic animals should be considered that are in from the get go tbh. There is no way they are going to make a PZ2 without a lion, tiger, giraffe, african Elephant, zebra, hippo, african rhinos, dromedary camel, wolf, brown bear, polar bear, penguins, etc. And even if they are not in base game they will come in DLCs for sure. Plus if we have to include the animals we already have my full list would be basically it. I can scrap some animals that i can do without but i don't think they are more than say 10-12. I
We had that debate over discord a couple of days ago. Sorry but I don't agree at all.
That is precisely the point of making a new list from scratch. To tell the devs what we want for the base game and what we don't want. Absolutely nothing is guaranteed. We had a base game without polar bears, kangaroos, meerkat, capybara, jaguar, pinnipeds, penguins, any caprid, etc. I can't see why a sequel would not have similar scenarios. That is why it is essential that every single animal is allowed.
There needs to be factual data that shows eg. how much we'd like to keep a lion or a giraffe, and how we don't care about HBB, spectacled caiman or water buffalo, to name a few.
Like, why should we assume that most people prefer a nyala over a sitatunga or an impala? That's making wrong assumptions.
After official release there would most likely be a new iteration of the metawishlist anyway that can be more targeted to DLCs, just like the original for PZ1.
That is precisely the point of making a new list from scratch. To tell the devs what we want for the base game and what we don't want. Absolutely nothing is guaranteed. We had a base game without polar bears, kangaroos, meerkat, capybara, jaguar, pinnipeds, penguins, any caprid, etc. I can't see why a sequel would not have similar scenarios. That is why it is essential that every single animal is allowed.
There needs to be factual data that shows eg. how much we'd like to keep a lion or a giraffe, and how we don't care about HBB, spectacled caiman or water buffalo, to name a few.
Like, why should we assume that most people prefer a nyala over a sitatunga or an impala? That's making wrong assumptions.
After official release there would most likely be a new iteration of the metawishlist anyway that can be more targeted to DLCs, just like the original for PZ1.
absolutely, on my draft wishlist I made I had like half the antelope we have in game, and 3 of them were new there are loads of animals I just don't want to return for the sequel
Well but then this would be a metawishlist for the base game, not for the game as a whole? Even so with a 200 spots in the list i would basically just ask for all the same things we already have minus a few or some species swap, and on top of that i would get not space for things like flying birds or Aquatic species.
If the wishlist Will be just for base game i could narrow it down to 150 maybe. There are some animals i would be ok to expect for DLCs plus some that i really don't care if they come back or no.
Thinking the wishlist as just a base game roster makes it a little easier to plan out what kind of animals should be in the game rather than try to fit in all possible dlc animals on top of an already large list. With birds, aquatics and exhibits just a dozen or so of each will be more than enough to include for a base game, so a 100-150 wishlist is really all we need to look at. Having a 200 animal wishlist is nearly triple the amount of pz1 base game animals seems a waste of both voters time and wishlist authors time for so many animals.
I agree with the 100 -150 animals considering the original base game only had I believe 73 animals (not counting anniversary animals). Assuming many of those will be making a return in PZ2 that leaves room for about the same number of new animals to be introduced as base game animals in PZ2.
I agree with allowing users to include animals already in PZ1 because there's really no guarantee of what will be include on PZ2 and this will give developers a glimpse into what the community as a whole would like and may sway some of the choices. Perhaps already in-game animals can simply be bolded?
I agree with allowing users to include animals already in PZ1 because there's really no guarantee of what will be include on PZ2 and this will give developers a glimpse into what the community as a whole would like and may sway some of the choices. Perhaps already in-game animals can simply be bolded?
Honestly putting it like this works for me. So 150 animals max is fine for me.
I was just suggesting it as a thing for myself, if I do a max of 150 animals but separate them by continent it just helps me keep track is all. I want to make sure I don’t cause too much headache for the people tallying the animals. Likewise I would probably bold new animals just as a visual guide.
I am in full agreement here, listen, as much as I love bears having a base Zoo game without half of the animals we got in the first year of dlc is silly. Likewise, I’m perfectly fine replacing some of the animals we got. As you said, we can help Frontier understand what needs to be in the sequel. If we all vote for new animals, maybe Frontier underestimates how much we like the white rhino, red kangaroo, polar bear, or other animals that really should have been in from the beginning.
Like instead of the capuchin, maybe we get a howler monkey or squirrel monkey instead.
The subspecies debate I'd say is pretty much over, with species being the standard and accepted animal category.
The number of animals allowed to be voted is still not clear but most people seem to be reasonably happy in the range of 100-150. Whoever will be in charge should have the final say.
Please dont pre sort your list with any sort of tags it will just make it harder to incorporate into the data just leave it as a simple list.
Separating animals by whats essential by continent is an impossible task since that is highly subjective and separating them based on range is extremely difficult to implement.
Also people are acting like not saying anything new is a bad thing we are making a wishlist of the most wanted animals from a sequel if that happens to be animals we have already seen so be it.
Originally, my idea was to cover the entire lifespan of PZ2 with a list like this. That means base game + DLC. (That's why there are 300 animals; if you assume base animals + birds + terrariums + fish, I can very well imagine a total volume of 300 to make a well-rounded game)
But I'm fine with covering the base game first and then moving on to the DLCs later, when we know what PZ2 contains. Then you know what you're dealing with and you're no longer fishing in the dark.
The question now remains:
Do we allow subspecies or not?
- I don't know exactly how I want to position myself on that. On the one hand, it means a lot of work going through the lists and filtering (I imagine it like this: "x" tigers ("x" Siberian, "x" Sumatran, ...))
On the other hand, I would like to have the option of selecting both a tropical and a taiga tiger, I like to have both. And we could possibly avoid something like the HBB if we could vote specifically for the Grizzly and the EBB.
And what I would also like to clarify:
Your core competencies?
Mine are: looking for spelling mistakes and I could also change the names to the usual spelling (so I would then make Andean bear into Spectacled Bear, etc.)
But I'm fine with covering the base game first and then moving on to the DLCs later, when we know what PZ2 contains. Then you know what you're dealing with and you're no longer fishing in the dark.
The question now remains:
Do we allow subspecies or not?
- I don't know exactly how I want to position myself on that. On the one hand, it means a lot of work going through the lists and filtering (I imagine it like this: "x" tigers ("x" Siberian, "x" Sumatran, ...))
On the other hand, I would like to have the option of selecting both a tropical and a taiga tiger, I like to have both. And we could possibly avoid something like the HBB if we could vote specifically for the Grizzly and the EBB.
And what I would also like to clarify:
Your core competencies?
Mine are: looking for spelling mistakes and I could also change the names to the usual spelling (so I would then make Andean bear into Spectacled Bear, etc.)
I think we are pretty firmly against subspecies on the list at the moment, although we could always link to a thread where subspecies can be discussed in greater detail
I really liked @SuzieSky annual list, so my recommendation would be one list prior to launch, and then after launch we make a new list every year
I do agree pre and post launch should be different lists simply due to the impossible task that is deciding what is and isnt possible in a game we dont even have proof is coming and also the large number of animals that will come at once.
I dont however like the idea of new lists annually people still to this day put their wishlist in the wrong list even though they are clearly marked with the year. A new list every year will severely limit how well we can survey the community because it will make participation confusing and more complicated.
Getting people to visit the forums once to vote is hard enough getting those same people to remember or care to vote every year is next to impossible. The only thing I think the annual lists do well is fix a common issue of "ghost" animals things people only voted for to represent a group that got a different addition but there are other ways to fix that such as allowing people to change their votes once a year to suit their current needs.