Open-Only in PP2.0?

[Robert Maynard]

Again, Open is about interaction with other CMDRs, both hostiles and friendly. There is PG mode for more restrictive rules (like no PvP).

Unfortunately for you danger of PvP is part of Open. You can embrace it or enjoy PG.

Interaction with CMDRs with different goals is intrinsic to the term "Open".

What Open is about seems to be a topic all of its own.

While some insist that Open is about being able to forcibly interact with and provide danger to other players, while at the same time complaining about the block feature and that no-one needs to play in Open to affect the game, it suggests that those players don't actually accept what Open is, rather seeking it to be something it is not, by engaging in selective acceptance of the actual rules of Open (as opposed to the out-of-game rules that some would prefer every player to require to abide by).

 

[Mr Jack Burton]

What Open is about seems to be a topic all of its own.

While some insist that Open is about being able to forcibly interact with and provide danger to other players, while at the same time complaining about the block feature and that no-one needs to play in Open to affect the game, it suggests that those players don't actually accept what Open is, rather seeking it to be something it is not, by engaging in selective acceptance of the actual rules of Open (as opposed to the out-of-game rules that some would prefer every player to require to abide by).

So what's the difference in playing Open disrupting other's experiece for sure (because blocking breaks instancing, not your fault or mine but that's it) or playing in PG where everyone agree to the same rules ?

 

[Robert Maynard]

So what's the difference in playing Open disrupting other's experiece for sure (because blocking breaks instancing, not your fault or mine but that's it) or playing in PG where everyone agree to the same rules ?

If blocking breaks instancing then maybe those who tend to get blocked, due to their actions and choice of targets, might reflect on how those choices and actions have consequences for both themself and other players - beyond the simple destruction of their chosen targets.

PGs have pitiful membership limits, in relation to the number of copies of the game in circulation and given that the time it takes for a PG's membership to fill will mean that some members will have stopped playing by the time it fills, and new players don't even know if one or more of them exist to suit their play-style. Open is the only guaranteed populated game mode - and players of all play-style preferences may choose to play in it. When playing in Open all that each players needs to do is abide by the in-game rules - noting that any out-of-game rules that some players choose to play by don't need to be taken into consideration by any player who does not choose to abide by them. Also noting that while some players are quite happy with the ability to "shoot at anything one instances with" they may be less than happy with the ability of others to "block any player" and "leave the game at any time, possibly subject to a short delay".

The talk about the "spirit of community and mutual respect" seems to be rather one-sided, i.e. attempting to get those disinterested in PvP to accept and accommodate those who do - with those who enjoy PvP seemingly making no effort at all to improve the situation for those who don't.

 

[Kyokushin]

By the NPC's yes.
By other players - no. It's the whole point of Solo Mode, you play the game versus the AI only.



Who said people in Solo are safe?
You're making an awful lot of assumptions about the skill level of people in Solo.
And you're not taking account of people who may be differently abled. They are allowed to play the game as well.



Good for you, but using the word "cheat" to describe playing the game legitimately, in the manner it was sold is quite frankly offensive.



As you clearly do not understand the meaning of the word;

cheat verb - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Definition of cheat verb in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary. Meaning, pronunciation, picture, example sentences, grammar, usage notes, synonyms and more.

www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com

No body is being tricked or being told anything untrue - the game modes were advertised long before the game went on sale.
If you don't like them, move along. But constantly using an offensive term is getting on my nerves tbh.

And you perfectly proven why PowerPlay should be Open only, i cant agree more with an arguments.

There is no difference for you to be shot by NPC or a player, because at the end you're just shot down. Its not influing your "death gameplay", because rebuy for you is same, and even rebuy screen is same.

When game was introduced there was even no powerplay at all, and now changes are coming and we're discussing about possible improvements, and the main improvement in my opinion should be add the value by bringing powerplay to open only.

All actions and counter actions should be possible in two directions. At this moment playing solo is unbalanced and in terms of PowerPlay is simply OP. You can under mine system only by one way and other people cant stop you in way different than tool than you're using - its pure definition of OP.

Diversity is good and there should be multiple ways to action and counter action in-game PowerPlay.

 

[Jockey79]

And you perfectly proven why PowerPlay should be Open only, i cant agree more with an arguments.

There is no difference for you to be shot by NPC or a player, because at the end you're just shot down. Its not influing your "death gameplay", because rebuy for you is same, and even rebuy screen is same.

When game was introduced there was even no powerplay at all, and now changes are coming and we're discussing about possible improvements, and the main improvement in my opinion should be add the value by bringing powerplay to open only.

All actions and counter actions should be possible in two directions. At this moment playing solo is unbalanced and in terms of PowerPlay is simply OP. You can under mine system only by one way and other people cant stop you in way different than tool than you're using - its pure definition of OP.

Diversity is good and there should be multiple ways to action and counter action in-game PowerPlay.

When Elite was introduced there was no Power Play, you are correct - yet the same arguments for forcing Open Only gameplay existed.
By a lot of the same voices. For the same reasons.

All actions and counters actions are available in all modes, because "counteractions" are not limited to PvP only, there are PvE elements to counteracting someone. So you can do it in any mode. And there are diverse options, you can PvE counter in any mode, or you can PvP counter in PGs and Open.

So nothing needs to be changed, you've got everything you need.

 

[Doctor Dread]

All actions and counter actions should be possible in two directions. At this moment playing solo is unbalanced and in terms of PowerPlay is simply OP. You can under mine system only by one way and other people cant stop you in way different than tool than you're using - its pure definition of OP.

Solo is open to us all, as are the Groups or Open.

If you think Solo has some benefits, use it and out-undermine your opponents.

Diversity is good and there should be multiple ways to action and counter action in-game PowerPlay.

Yes we have diversity, multiple ways for action and counter action. Feel free to use any way you find the most beneficial for your intentions.

Don't ask anyone to play the game the way you would like.

 

[anShpan]

.

 

[enonymous]

There is no difference for you to be shot by NPC or a player, because at the end you're just shot down.

NPCs have value. Players can progress to a point where they can engage with the NPCs in a fair fight even if they're in a trade ship. Winning that fight is rewarded with money, mats and rep. To put another way: Send any two, human NPCs after my python while I'm trying to deliver missions and it's just a quick side quest that's going to give me a reward worth my time (assuming we're not talking about ATR). Make them tougher if you want. Send me 2 of the ships from a wing assassination mission. I might have to modify my ship; but I'll engage as long as they're worth my time.

Players are worthless. You have the same advantage I do; but you're not making compromise to do PvE stuff. If, for whatever reason, you're attacking me and under prepared, I'm probably not going to be able to stop you from jumping. You've wasted my time. If you're so bad that you let a trade ship kill you; you're not going to have a bounty worth the time it took. You've wasted my time. The actual design expects me to run as opposed to fight. If I achieve my objective (escape); then I'm punished. I'm further from my destination and it takes longer to achieve my objective. I'm punished worse if I fail. It's adorable that people want to use words like 'fear', 'risk' and 'danger' when talking about this issue, but we're talking giving someone the opportunity to waste your time in a worthless interaction.

Personally, I think this issue is fundamental to the game. It's bigger than powerplay; but let's look at it from the standpoint of powerplay. I spend time collecting widgets and want to go deliver them. I don't need to interact with you to deliver. You're not a part of this loop. You show up and we have this interaction designed for you to attack and for me to escape. If you win; you've done something positive for your power. You stopped a delivery. If you lose and allow me to escape; you've probably done something positive for your power (stopped a delivery). Even if I kill you; you've done something positive for your power. I can't deliver as many widgets because I had to spend time on you.

I'm doing a disservice to my power if I interact with you at all. I'm spending time on a worthless interaction instead of making deliveries. You have literally nothing of value to offer. "No no no. You win if you make the delivery!" But I don't need to waste my time on this worthless interaction to make my delivery. Having this interaction is always worse than not having it; regardless of the outcome. There is no "winning" outcome possible because the design is absurdly stupid. The only NPCs with that design are thargoids. I suppose security responses are similar, but that's literally a punishment for breaking the law of the land (void?).

I stop in a degraded emissions signal and pick up a tonne of biowaste. I'll have an elite FDL (or T10) trying to kill me until I get rid of that biowaste. They offer money, mats and rep. The interdiction is easy enough that most players can just ignore them. I'm going to smash them and take the reward. I have a newbie account that's still expert combat rank, but flying around in mostly G5 ships. 2 ranks from a corvette. They'd send me very weak ships to fight because that's how the game is balanced. They're not sending a meta FDL gankboat. Ironically, they'd still send something more of a threat than the NPC bounty hunters that show up attacking people with notoriety. Go figure.

Let's not pretend NPC interaction is the same as player interaction. It's disingenuous at best.

 

[Jockey79]

I agree that the mechanics of blocking are part of the game, and players are free to use them. However, the terms "abuse" and "misuse" in this context are about the spirit of community and mutual respect among players. Using a feature in ways that harm others' experiences or manipulate the game's intended dynamics can be considered misuse, even if it's technically within the rules.

In multiplayer environments, the balance between personal freedom and respect for others plays a significant role in maintaining a fair and enjoyable experience for everyone. Blocking players without reason or to gain an unfair advantage, while allowed, can be seen as going against the cooperative or competitive spirit that makes the game fun for all.

It's not about whether you can block someone, but rather how and why you do it, and how it impacts the larger community.


the key issue here is the broader impact on player interactions within Open PP which is intended to be a mode of competitive interaction between players. The feature may not directly "break" PowerPlay mechanics, but blocking in Open can reduce meaningful player-to-player encounters and distort the dynamics of PowerPlay competition.
While it’s true that PowerPlay can be played in Solo/PG (so no need to block), Open is where the real inter-faction competition takes place, especially for players looking for genuine interactions, both in terms of combat and strategy. Blocking someone to avoid encounters in Open can diminish that competitive element, reducing the depth of the PowerPlay experience for those who want to engage in that type of play.
So, while blocking may seem personal and justified, its overuse in a competitive system like PP could be seen as a misuse when it impacts the integrity of player driven competition,

I also want to emphasize that this isn't about accusing anyone personally, but rather encouraging a respectful and fair gaming environment where everyone can enjoy the game to its fullest. Healthy competition and mutual respect are what keep the community strong, and it's always worth considering how our actions might impact others.

Power Play is not a competitive PvP system and is available in all modes, so my block list does not impact those who play Power Play at all.
"Player driven" does not equal player ships going boom constantly.

As for playing in Open Mode and blocking those who do PvP, well we do not have a real PvE Mode.
So if anyone wants to fly in Open Mode and just block others, that's fine.

The Mobius Groups may be fun, but it has a major flaw - only one person can manage the group, so if they are not around and there are problems. There isn't anything anyone else can do about it. Plus they can change their mind on the group rules at any point, and again, nothing anyone else can do about it. So the only real solution for those who want to play social PvE style is to play in Open Mode and block everyone. That way I do not have to rely on anyone else to manage my game for me and I can socialise as much or as little as I like.

And again, you cannot overuse or misuse a feature we were told we can freely use without any restrictions.
I can put the entire game community except for 1 other person, then and wonder around Open Mode all day long - it's my choice and Frontier supports it.

 

[St0rmFury]

I don't remember who said this, but iirc it was from the open VS solo thread.

"NPCs exist for our entertainment, other players don't."

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

"NPCs exist for our entertainment, other players don't."

I bet there are CMDRs who disagree with that...

 

[Doctor Dread]

I don't remember who said this, but iirc it was from the open VS solo thread.

"NPCs exist for our entertainment, other players don't."

I bet there are CMDRs who disagree with that...

 

[Mr Jack Burton]

Power Play is not a competitive PvP system and is available in all modes, so my block list does not impact those who play Power Play at all.
"Player driven" does not equal player ships going boom constantly.

According Oxford Dictionary
'used to describe a situation in which people or organizations compete against each other.'
Since Power Play is driven by players, both people and organizations, it’s perfectly fine for things to go boom.
If your rulebook excludes PvP, Private Group sounds like your safe haven... or maybe a relaxing book.

As for playing in Open Mode and blocking those who do PvP, well we do not have a real PvE Mode.
So if anyone wants to fly in Open Mode and just block others, that's fine.

By blocking everyone left and right, you're not just avoiding PvP, you’re giving others the delightful experience of broken instancing, turning a multiplayer universe into your very own single-player adventure.

Sure, it's allowed, kind of like using the library’s Wi-Fi to stream a movie.

But… doesn't it mess up the fun for those who are actually looking for a real challenge and, you know, players they can actually see?

The Mobius Groups may be fun, but it has a major flaw - only one person can manage the group, so if they are not around and there are problems. There isn't anything anyone else can do about it. Plus they can change their mind on the group rules at any point, and again, nothing anyone else can do about it. So the only real solution for those who want to play social PvE style is to play in Open Mode and block everyone. That way I do not have to rely on anyone else to manage my game for me and I can socialise as much or as little as I like.

So, the solution is to block the entire server?
It’s like showing up to a party, locking yourself in an empty room, and saying, 'I'm having the time of my life!'

Frontier allows it, sure, but they also allow you to leave your shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot... doesn’t mean it's classy.

And again, you cannot overuse or misuse a feature we were told we can freely use without any restrictions.
I can put the entire game community except for 1 other person, then and wonder around Open Mode all day long - it's my choice and Frontier supports it.

Sure, you can block everyone except one person and roam around Open all day, just like you can go to a buffet and only eat the crackers. It’s allowed, but you’re kind of missing the point. Frontier may support the feature, but turning Open Mode into your personal ghost town feels a bit like buying front-row concert tickets and then wearing noise-canceling headphones the whole time.

 

[Jockey79]

According Oxford Dictionary
'used to describe a situation in which people or organizations compete against each other.'
Since Power Play is driven by players, both people and organizations, it’s perfectly fine for things to go boom.
If your rulebook excludes PvP, Private Group sounds like your safe haven... or maybe a relaxing book.

I didn't say it wasn't fine for things to go boom, I said "going boom constantly". There is a difference.
And PP does not rely on any ships going boom at all for it to be competitive.

PvP is optional within the competitive system.

By blocking everyone left and right, you're not just avoiding PvP, you’re giving others the delightful experience of broken instancing, turning a multiplayer universe into your very own single-player adventure.

Wrong. Because new people will pop up all the time (I don't have the entire list of players, so it's actually impossible to block everyone), plus I'm not blocking the people I want to play within the game. So it continues to be a multiplayer game for me, where I decide if I ever want to see people after our first encounter.

This is also how the instancing works, it's not broken - it's working as intended.

Sure, it's allowed, kind of like using the library’s Wi-Fi to stream a movie.

I don't think you are allowed to do that, you may want to check the terms and conditions for using the Wi-Fi at your library.

But… doesn't it mess up the fun for those who are actually looking for a real challenge and, you know, players they can actually see?

No, in fact, it improves the fun - because the players you will see, want you to see them.

So, the solution is to block the entire server?

Yes

It’s like showing up to a party, locking yourself in an empty room, and saying, 'I'm having the time of my life!'

I'm quite careful about choosing the type of people I hang out with, so I don't go to parties where any random person could pull a gun and start shooting.

I don't go to parties where any random person could pull a gun and start shooting.
Frontier allows it, sure, but they also allow you to leave your shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot... doesn’t mean it's classy. [/quote]

Wow, you really struggle with reading T&Cs, first, you're abusing the library Wi-Fi and now you are not following the sign in the car park that asks for all carts to be returned to a collection point. No wonder you didn't read Frontiers T&Cs or game information saying no other player is forced to spend time with you.

Sure, you can block everyone except one person and roam around Open all day, just like you can go to a buffet and only eat the crackers. It’s allowed, but you’re kind of missing the point. Frontier may support the feature, but turning Open Mode into your personal ghost town feels a bit like buying front-row concert tickets and then wearing noise-canceling headphones the whole time.

And that's my choice, not yours.

To expand on your analogy here, my family and I went to watch Disney on Ice a few years ago in Birmingham. And whoever their sound tech was, clearly was a moron. Instead of ensuring we all got quality sound, they just went with the lazy option and turned the volume up - way up. My entire family struggled for the entire show, fortunately for my son he already had ear defenders on. Yes, my son went to a concert with noise-cancelling headphones on and guess what, he didn't stop anyone else from enjoying the stupidly loud music.

Just like me putting PvP'ers on block, doesn't stop them from enjoying the game with other PvP'ers.
Why don't you stop concerning yourself with what everyone else is doing when it's none of your business and just go and play the game with people what to socialise with you.

 

[Rubbernuke]

PvP in contested systems it seems (pic via Alec Turner)

 

[Rubbernuke]

All actions and counters actions are available in all modes

So how do you counter the above screenshot in other modes?

 

[Robert Maynard]

So how do you counter the above screenshot in other modes?

By doing more of the other stuff that affects Powerplay 2.0, i.e. the rest of the game, noting that intercepting CMDRs requires both sides to want to engage in that optional aspect of the gameplay on offer.

It's as much a guaranteed part of the game as the "or just hunt other CMDRs" line that used to be part of the advertising (and was subsequently removed), i.e. it is possible but specific CMDRs cannot be targeted unless they want to be.

 

[Mr Jack Burton]

PvP in contested systems it seems (pic via Alec Turner)

View attachment 405499

At least it’s crystal clear that "competition" includes PvP now
It’s kind of embarrassing that we need this spelled out in black and white just to start having a meaningful discussion about such an explicit design feature.

 

[Robert Maynard]

At least it’s crystal clear that "competition" includes PvP now
It’s kind of embarrassing that we need this spelled out in black and white just to start having a meaningful discussion about such an explicit design feature.

Includes PvP for whom?

 

[Rubbernuke]

By doing more of the other stuff that affects Powerplay 2.0, i.e. the rest of the game, noting that intercepting CMDRs requires both sides to want to engage in that optional aspect of the gameplay on offer.

It's as much a guaranteed part of the game as the "or just hunt other CMDRs" line that used to be part of the advertising (and was subsequently removed), i.e. it is possible but specific CMDRs cannot be targeted unless they want to be.

But how in that system? I predicted this would happen when I talked about NPC resistance in systems being contested- its obvious from this screenshot there is no NPC opposition until the system is won and then you can UM (and go after NPCs).

The screen shows that two powers are now locked in, and every other one present is the NPC hunters slowing them down. So potentially you could have ten other powers with the command 'kill all commanders'.