Powerplay 2.0 : what we know from partners' streams

[AEBRAM]

If you've already got everything then the same could be said about absolutely any game content. People aren't generally carrying on fighting the Thargoid war because they need another 10 billion AX bonds, etc.

But in terms of incentives I can think of:
- there's various bits of gameplay that you only get to do while pledged
- staying pledged at rank 100 gives you permanent access to all PP modules, which means you don't need to keep "spare" ones hanging around taking up module storage space just in case; the rank structure makes "pledge-to-one-and-stay" a much more efficient way to get module access than hopping around.
- at that sort of "got everything, done everything" level a new challenge is always interesting. I'm certainly hoping that the need to deal with Power NPCs means the weapons on my ship get a bit more use without needing to go to a specific "shoot things zone (Medium)" [1]
- obviously the "change the allegiance of this system" is supposed to be a motivation in itself (plenty of veteran players doing BGS stuff for similar reasons, same with a lot of the AX content)
- if you're into the social side of things then there's a lot of scope for teaming up with other people


[1] Obviously "I could be shot at when I didn't want to be" is an active disincentive to some players, but Powerplay is an explicitly competitive mechanism, and I think Frontier would be better off keeping it that way and providing something else for the people who want peaceful collaboration (we haven't had a decent "colonisation" series of CGs/events for over five years now!).

That's true. You could say that, however, powerplay v2.0 has promise over its soon to be version predecessor; Yet, let me tell it from this perspective: A player who is not active on these PP "leadership" discord channels that simply plays to play, and said player, has jumped the previous hurdles to have the PP modules, enough credits to buy anything released for credits, enough engineering material to fully engineer any purchased ship from scratch.

At this point in game play, what is the incentive or hook, to bring players described here to join a faction and invest their game time into PP 2.0 activities? From, the angle, they're not connected with these player-driven PP communities? ED: Solo server is your own sandbox; So, what will motivate or inspire players to join the PP community, and what reward could they chase for their effort, considering the player has already done the mentioned above...?

 

[Gl9k]

That's true. You could say that, however, powerplay v2.0 has promise over its soon to be version predecessor; Yet, let me tell it from this perspective: A player who is not active on these PP "leadership" discord channels that simply plays to play, and said player, has jumped the previous hurdles to have the PP modules, enough credits to buy anything released for credits, enough engineering material to fully engineer any purchased ship from scratch.

At this point in game play, what is the incentive or hook, to bring players described here to join a faction and invest their game time into PP 2.0 activities? From, the angle, they're not connected with these player-driven PP communities? ED: Solo server is your own sandbox; So, what will motivate or inspire players to join the PP community, and what reward could they chase for their effort, considering the player has already done the mentioned above...?

What I am understanding is that Powerplay 2.0 is meant to make the gamemode easier to play using in game information without needing to engage with an organization (though you will benefit greatly by joining one). If what PP has to offer does not interest you and you are just there for the modules then there is a possibility it might not be for you and that's ok because there is so much to do in this game! Also there is that new feature they will be talking about this coming wednesday so that's something to look forward to!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Conversely for me, one of the very first things I noticed about Elite Dangerous back when I started playing in 1.1 was how difficult it was to get attacked by NPCs while trading. I was expecting something more like the Elite/FE2/FFE experience where you fly along and get attacked by pirates a bit because that's what happens in an Elite game. Then you kill them and carry on. Getting through an Anarchy/lowsec/enemy system should be a slogfest, not a "oh, I pressed the SCO button so I'm at the station now, job done" because that's how they're distinguished from Highsec/friendly ones.

I am trying not to get my hopes too high that the next update will bring an entirely optional button I can press to get a bit of that experience in Elite Dangerous too, and people who like the "this is my non-combat ship so no-one should shoot it" go-anywhere design of most of the rest of the game don't have to press it.

Oh, for sure. Travelling to Reidiquat back in the day was really fun, and i'd love to see that back, especially if the attackers scaled based on rank and what you were hauling. There are some problems with this though in ED, since we now have engineered ships and no matter how many pirates are attacking, a Cutter is at zero risk, as it can't be mass locked (except by other Cutters, which don't usually spawn outside Imperial space) and its fast enough (esp. with engineering) to outrun anything dangerous within seconds.

Still, that could be argued as being the benefit of progression.

On the topic of SCO... must admit, i'm loving it, even though it reduces risk massively.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Best thread in the entire FD forums

Nah, that's the State of the Game thread!

 

[Rubbernuke]

I watched a streamer use the Mandalay to decimate ships & SLF's at a Fed stronghold system. He knew what he was doing

This is what I'm concerned about-

a) FD not putting in a system with enough nuance that allows b) players who want challenge to get it.

From whats been said the sec appears to be regular ships (with perhaps the odd one being superior) with ATR like reflexes. The first iteration (now nerfed) read like a high sec system on lockdown, the second (now nerfed) high sec. I really wish this 'crazy' NPC response was on stream because frankly....I think those testing over-reacted, and are not used to very hostile security responses. In these forums people make the biowaste over having one notoriety point....

Hopefully its possible to tailor sec to PP system 'state' (stronghold, fortified, exploited) better.

Equally, the Power NPCs shouldn't be tough enough to defend the system on their own - otherwise everyone will just let the NPCs do that and focus on fortifying up systems which aren't at Stronghold yet. They need to be present and moderately threatening, but they can't be so dangerous that they make attack a much less attractive option than defence.

(Obviously if you're trying to rob a Stronghold Carrier for a huge merit payout, sure, that can have a ridiculously tough defence. But if you're just hacking a few holoscreen adverts then a light fighter to chase you off once in a while is fine)

Its a paradox really, and one where I wish you could bypass by being covert (i.e. not being scanned- once a sec ship collars you, then PP NPCs start up). The other is making attack / murder and anything perilous really lucrative.

Like I said above, I'm not convinced that the AI is really that hard- I'm an average pilot and cracking security is more about brute force, while evading security comes down to discipline. Its not easy, but if you hone your craft its not Skynet hell either. As an example, being hostile in a high sec system and BGS murdering comes down to a few key elements: 1) target choice (soft targets) 2) knowing where SC security is (they home in on you, but that takes time and can be evaded) and 3) counting kills (as not to trigger insta ATR). The other is ensuring you can kill your target in seconds with no distractions, and be out as fast as you can.

Possibly of interest, the same CMDR (@DSS Lev ) has posted a WIP spreadsheet of merits earned by various PP actions in a different reddit thread. It also highlights some potential implementation issues.

I certainly was interesting, and will be another hot topic. But it will also be a good way to shape activity- in that while you get rewards for scanning etc you get more for being pro active against powers so players are always tempted to be more 'direct'

 

[Ian Doncaster]

At this point in game play, what is the incentive or hook, to bring players described here to join a faction and invest their game time into PP 2.0 activities? From, the angle, they're not connected with these player-driven PP communities? ED: Solo server is your own sandbox; So, what will motivate or inspire players to join the PP community, and what reward could they chase for their effort, considering the player has already done the mentioned above...?

From my point of view, one of the big reasons I'm going to sign up to PP2 having done almost nothing in PP1 is that there's no requirement to join a particular community to be effective - and indeed the existing communities may find themselves making up a relatively small proportion of the active players in some powers - and I can just pick a system and try to take it for Kaine without having to worry about whether some other Kaine-supporting player group (should there be any) disapproves.

From the sandbox point of view ... there are a bunch of activities you can only do while pledged, and if you're still playing at all despite "having everything" you're already not in it for the rewards, so anything which gives extra activities or variety might be welcome.

On the topic of SCO... must admit, i'm loving it, even though it reduces risk massively.

With supercruise already essentially safe for those who wanted it to be, I certainly find the fact that it makes travel interesting in other ways to far outweigh the loss of potential danger too.

(If I get a mission enemy or similar I'll give them a chance to catch up before using it, sure)

 

[Rubbernuke]

With supercruise already essentially safe for those who wanted it to be, I certainly find the fact that it makes travel interesting in other ways to far outweigh the loss of potential danger too.

(If I get a mission enemy or similar I'll give them a chance to catch up before using it, sure)

SCO is partly why I scratch my head at issues about interdictions. Unless space is chock full of NPCs out to get you, you can boost into deep space to get a break.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

SCO is partly why I scratch my head at issues about interdictions. Unless space is chock full of NPCs out to get you, you can boost into deep space to get a break.

Pirates, System security and Powers also have yet to start using the Python 2, but I imagine that time will come! It is the type of thing Frontier may not announce, then one day Commanders will Overcharge away from the star only to see a wobbly-flying pursuer on the radar.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

SCO is partly why I scratch my head at issues about interdictions. Unless space is chock full of NPCs out to get you, you can boost into deep space to get a break.

Solo-ran Shieldless All Cargo Rack Cutters with SCO's are going to become the new PP Meta. I'm fairly sure of this.

 

[Rubbernuke]

What I mean is, unless its changed in recent times security does not use LR or wide angle interdictors, and evasion is essentially turning around ans zooming past them. Also even in wings, if an NPC fails it drops from SC so unless you have several behind you again....thats not really 'chained' to the point of being 'bad'.

 

[Nowski]

From my point of view, one of the big reasons I'm going to sign up to PP2 having done almost nothing in PP1 is that there's no requirement to join a particular community

Very much this! I never did get to find out what 'CC' means - and now I don't have to!

Regards GP's quandary of "what's in it for players who already have everything?" I'd be curious to know what would make a valid answer outside of "better design, extra gameplay, more player agency", since it's already stated the players in question are practically impossible to incentivise in terms of in-game rewards.

Maybe gameplay challenges such as extra-tough NPCs (available, but not omnipresent, I hope!) and easy-to-find venues for PvP action would be a possible answer.

 

[Rebel Yell]

That's true. You could say that, however, powerplay v2.0 has promise over its soon to be version predecessor; Yet, let me tell it from this perspective: A player who is not active on these PP "leadership" discord channels that simply plays to play, and said player, has jumped the previous hurdles to have the PP modules, enough credits to buy anything released for credits, enough engineering material to fully engineer any purchased ship from scratch.

At this point in game play, what is the incentive or hook, to bring players described here to join a faction and invest their game time into PP 2.0 activities? From, the angle, they're not connected with these player-driven PP communities? ED: Solo server is your own sandbox; So, what will motivate or inspire players to join the PP community, and what reward could they chase for their effort, considering the player has already done the mentioned above...?

Fair points. We (at Archon Delaine's PP community) opted for a radical change in our organisation. We reckon that PP 2.0 is going to bring Powerplay to the mainstream in the game, so that it is not a "niche" (or module-linked) activity anymore: that means it is going to be really hard (if not impossible) to "manage" a Power as it used to be in PP 1.0 (where a small number of fellow powerplayers was enough to keep almost every Power afloat without big struggle).

So we switched from a "lead driven" organisation to a "community guided" one, where we have in practice reached and united all the squadrons/factions/players who are willing to pledge for Delaine in PP 2.0 and carry on his cause/ethos. As far as they are looking to be part of it... of course we are pretty much aware that anyone else can pledge Delaine and blaze her/his own trail.

Bottom line, what makes a difference is the "social" part... and yes, you can look at this as an "incentive".

 

[Rubbernuke]

Fair points. We (at Archon Delaine's PP community) opted for a radical change in our organisation. We reckon that PP 2.0 is going to bring Powerplay to the mainstream in the game, so that it is not a "niche" (or module-linked) activity anymore: that means it is going to be really hard (if not impossible) to "manage" a Power as it used to be in PP 1.0 (where a small number of fellow powerplayers was enough to keep almost every Power afloat without big struggle).

So we switched from a "lead driven" organisation to a "community guided" one, where we have in practice reached and united all the squadrons/factions/players who are willing to pledge for Delaine in PP 2.0 and carry on his cause/ethos. As far as they are looking to be part of it... of course we are pretty much aware that anyone else can pledge Delaine and blaze her/his own trail.

Bottom line, what makes a difference is the "social" part... and yes, you can look at this as an "incentive".

PP2 discords are now more about highlighting strategically important areas that the new UI will highlight but not be able to sort into a priority list.

Sort of pick and mix.

 

[St0rmFury]

PP2 discords are now more about highlighting strategically important areas that the new UI will highlight but not be able to sort into a priority list.

Sort of pick and mix.

I remember D2EA's discord doing something like this for BGS. Their planner will list down a bunch of tasks to do every week (either doing BH/CZ, selling carto, etc) and contributors will report back with how much they turn in/sold. Pretty organised.

 

[Rebel Yell]

PP2 discords are now more about highlighting strategically important areas that the new UI will highlight but not be able to sort into a priority list.

Sort of pick and mix.

Exactly, and/or to coordinate "diplomatic" overlaps.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I don't see the logic of PP NPCs spawning over random parts of a huge planet. There is no reason for them to be there, the same there is no PP related reason for anyone to be there.

Imagine you're a Power's representative at a station or base, monitoring the local Supercruise traffic. You're tracking a hostile ship, which descends down to what should be a completely empty part of the planet below. You're naturally going to send someone to see what they're up to.

In most games, these patrols would always be present in the game world, controlled by the game's servers, which are hosted by the development team. The problem with this game is that Frontier aren't the ones doing the hosting to save money. It's the players doing the hosting, and only when they're in the area, so this type of behavior is simulated via spawning rules, rather than handled by the game's servers.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Fair points. We (at Archon Delaine's PP community) opted for a radical change in our organisation. We reckon that PP 2.0 is going to bring Powerplay to the mainstream in the game, so that it is not a "niche" (or module-linked) activity anymore: that means it is going to be really hard (if not impossible) to "manage" a Power as it used to be in PP 1.0 (where a small number of fellow powerplayers was enough to keep almost every Power afloat without big struggle).

So we switched from a "lead driven" organisation to a "community guided" one, where we have in practice reached and united all the squadrons/factions/players who are willing to pledge for Delaine in PP 2.0 and carry on his cause/ethos. As far as they are looking to be part of it... of course we are pretty much aware that anyone else can pledge Delaine and blaze her/his own trail.

Bottom line, what makes a difference is the "social" part... and yes, you can look at this as an "incentive".

So what you're saying is, less of a code, more a set of guidelines? Chomps apple seductively

 

[Rebel Yell]

So what you're saying is, less of a code, more a set of guidelines? Chomps apple seductively

Guidelines to promote cooperation within the community, share ideas, collect feedbacks and assess/coordinate the effort in the most fun-efficient way.

That's pretty much different from the current PP 1.0 situation, where leaders set an order of priorities for every Cycle (fortifications, preparations)... decide where to send underminers or what system must be prepped to launch an expansion, controlling the prep/cons vote, win/lose BGS conflicts (and/or flip systems to favourable governments) and so on.

 

[Darkfyre99]

That's true. You could say that, however, powerplay v2.0 has promise over its soon to be version predecessor; Yet, let me tell it from this perspective: A player who is not active on these PP "leadership" discord channels that simply plays to play, and said player, has jumped the previous hurdles to have the PP modules, enough credits to buy anything released for credits, enough engineering material to fully engineer any purchased ship from scratch.

At this point in game play, what is the incentive or hook, to bring players described here to join a faction and invest their game time into PP 2.0 activities? From, the angle, they're not connected with these player-driven PP communities? ED: Solo server is your own sandbox; So, what will motivate or inspire players to join the PP community, and what reward could they chase for their effort, considering the player has already done the mentioned above...?

Speaking as a "lone wolf" PowerPlayer (though on the BGS side of things) my motivation for participating in PowerPlay 1.0 is exactly the same as my motivation for participating in PowerPlay 2.0: role playing. I'm roleplaying as an Imperial Agent, whose primary motive is to aide Brave Freedom Fighters against the oppression of the Evil Galactic Federation and its Corporate Overlords, and spreading the light of Freedom and Prosperity that the Empire brings to the Galaxy. More importantly, after my long Exploration journey after the BGS revamp removed most of the nuance from BGS manipulation, I decided, in character, to stop supporting the Traditionalist faction of Imperial Faction (In the person of Arissa-Langley Duval) and support the Progressive movement (in the persion of Aisling Duval)

In PowerPlay 1.0, the whole Ethos system determined what local factions I would promote and which ones I would attack, whether I was in Imperial Space or Federation Space. This made it slightly more complex, and thus more interesting, than BGS manipulation pre-PowerPlay. I stopped earning merits after a few months of playing simply because the BGS side of things had a rich variety of fun PvE gameplay options to choose from, while earning merits had only two rather grindy ones. In PowerPlay 2.0, I'll be able to gain merits via normal gameplay, and have any particular PowerPlay campaign take much less time than BGS play normally takes... or quickly determine the level of player opposition.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Imagine you're a Power's representative at a station or base, monitoring the local Supercruise traffic. You're tracking a hostile ship, which descends down to what should be a completely empty part of the planet below. You're naturally going to send someone to see what they're up to.

In most games, these patrols would always be present in the game world, controlled by the game's servers, which are hosted by the development team. The problem with this game is that Frontier aren't the ones doing the hosting to save money. It's the players doing the hosting, and only when they're in the area, so this type of behavior is simulated via spawning rules, rather than handled by the game's servers.

Well, now we are into the realm of imagining anything, so the question has to be asked, are there enough resources to send ships after every random ship that lands on any random planet? Let's imagine they don't have those sorts of resources in poorer/less populous systems but do so in richer/higher population systems. Also factor in how many planets, how far they are from the nearest station?

It would them make more sense to base the chance of a spawn and how long before the spawn on those, and perhaps other, factors.