PP 2.0 has sent BGS into crisis

I might be losing my marbles, but in one of the conflicts (war) I’m involved in, the faction I support went from 3-0 to 3-2 in one day. I’m seeing a lot of traffic in this system and it happens to be a power occupied system. The faction I’m opposing is an NPC faction. Weird stuff.
 
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With any luck it'll transition seamlessly into colonization. I don't think powerplay 2.0 is going to cut it long term. A lot of players will be done with it, once they're R100. They'll stay pledged for the modules but won't actively pursue powerplay anymore.
Depending on how colonization rolls out, I can see PMF/BGS freakboys moving out into the black to do their thing.

Confession: I am a PMF/BGS freak boy. I just joined PP2 and pledged to a power because I figure if PP2 is going to roll in like a tsunami I might as well get into a boat before I drown.
 
I might be losing my marbles, but in one of the conflicts (war) I’m involved in, the faction I support went from 3-0 to 3-2 in one day. I’m seeing a lot of traffic in this system and it happens to be a power occupied system. The faction I’m opposing is an NPC faction. Weird stuff.
My understanding a while back was that a losing faction could have a "comeback" and score two points if they were well supported... my only reference to that is a long- forgotten video snip from some stream with the devs.
 
I have been running a lot of tests as I am heavily involved in BGS for my faction, I got a clean as possible test in a system (no sys traffic but me for the whole tick) I was trying to push our own faction down as we were over 75%. I put up 200+ INF for the 2nd and 3rd factions (non- natives) neither of which were in conflict. Post tick the influence in the system did not move at all for any faction, and I have had similar results with only slight shifts in other systems where there has been light traffic (where pre PP2 the work undertaken would have shifted a lower faction at least 5%). Given we have total control of the stations in a lot of our systems, unless we are lucky enough to have a lower faction with a control system elsewhere containing a RES or CNB for bounties (which are still shifting INF) it is pretty much impossible to stave off several of our systems pushing above 75% and forcing non natives to retreat. We are now in a status of permaexpansion. The only thing I have not tried / tested is trading with other factions ODY settlements but demand at those is usually minimal, so I would expect it will be a hassle either way and doubt it will be enough to counteract the problem.
 
I think if FDev keep up with fixes and updates, then PP2.0 will definitely be more of a thing than PP1.0 was.
For Powerplay 2 specifically there are some indicators of that - regardless of the effects on the wider playerbase.

1) In Powerplay 1, the number of Squadrons with pledged activity was about 250 per season (and very little variation between seasons). There's a more specific requirement on this leaderboard than most of the others - the individual gaining the PP actions has to match their squadron pledge - so that was always an underestimate; nevertheless, the figure two weeks into the current Squadron season, with the same restriction in PP2, is already over 1000 active squadrons and still rising. It'll be interesting to see where this settles longer-term, since the Thargoid war achieved a similar and somewhat long-term-sustained multiplier for the AX leaderboard participation.

2) The number of merits needed to shift a system to a new state is measured, and the number of systems in each state is published per cycle. So it's possible to get an estimate of the minimum number of merits earned by everyone during a week from the weekly changes, and this comes in at around 150-200 million merits [1] per cycle - not counting merits that are countered by the other side either locally or globally, not counting those wasted by over-capturing or losing an Acquisition fight, and relying on "big numbers" averaging to cover the case where a system is promoted or demoted gradually over multiple weeks. This metric is not dropping off at all yet (in fact, last week was the highest so far)

A reasonable estimate of mean merits per player per week based on the in-power leaderboards would be in the 10-20,000 [1] merits per week range (which will include weekly assignments which don't shift systems at all, but those were relatively small in previous weeks anyway). So that suggests a five-figure number of active players (hard to be more precise) which certainly beats CGs.

[1] Since from this week there's a large distinction, these are the system merits. Personal merits will now be 4x that or higher.

I have been running a lot of tests as I am heavily involved in BGS for my faction, I got a clean as possible test in a system (no sys traffic but me for the whole tick) I was trying to push our own faction down as we were over 75%. I put up 200+ INF for the 2nd and 3rd factions (non- natives) neither of which were in conflict. Post tick the influence in the system did not move at all for any faction, and I have had similar results with only slight shifts in other systems where there has been light traffic (where pre PP2 the work undertaken would have shifted a lower faction at least 5%). Given we have total control of the stations in a lot of our systems, unless we are lucky enough to have a lower faction with a control system elsewhere containing a RES or CNB for bounties (which are still shifting INF) it is pretty much impossible to stave off several of our systems pushing above 75% and forcing non natives to retreat. We are now in a status of permaexpansion. The only thing I have not tried / tested is trading with other factions ODY settlements but demand at those is usually minimal, so I would expect it will be a hassle either way and doubt it will be enough to counteract the problem.
This is interesting, thank you - and I think the first attempt at a "clean system" test I've seen. If missions aren't having the normal effect that would certainly explain some things.

The slightly odd thing is that out in my monitoring of Colonia systems, everything seems basically normal - there are no runaway controlling factions (if anything they're down slightly), influence movements are all within the normal ranges, overall traffic levels do seem to be up a bit with the update too. So are missions only not working specifically in Powerplay-affected systems?
 
I can, will, and have done that to people repeatedly. As for "dealing with any trouble makers" I can't remember the last time a BGS group actually tried to actually fight me head-on. I have the run of the system right under their damn noses and they don't, and can't, do jack.

Just because you graffiti'd your name over it doesn't make it yours.
If you go into a system in solo mode and vandalize someone's BGS, you are just an annoyance who wastes everyone's time. Nobody can deal with you "head on".
 
If you go into a system in solo mode and vandalize someone's BGS, you are just an annoyance who wastes everyone's time. Nobody can deal with you "head on".
who the hell said anything about doing it in solo? You had to invent a whole high-horse to get on there.

I'm half tempted to just say something moddable just so the mods - who have all read the hotel california threads and are well familiar with my position on the modes - get to just laugh at you for vomiting out something so utterly presumptuous.
 
If you go into a system in solo mode and vandalize someone's BGS, you are just an annoyance who wastes everyone's time. Nobody can deal with you "head on".
Same could be said for me. First 4 years I played on PS and even though I'm on PC now, the only time I can get online to play is the graveyard shift, regardless of being in open on both.
 
If you go into a system in solo mode and vandalize someone's BGS, you are just an annoyance who wastes everyone's time. Nobody can deal with you "head on".
Hotel California aside... whose BGS? It certainly doesn't belong to you or me... and if FD didn't want people making the galaxy change shape, they simply wouldn't have made this a thing.

Every player action affects the BGS, that's the point. No player gets to decide what is and isn't allowed by others.
 
Every player action affects the BGS, that's the point.
Hence the desire for open only to have any/more effect on the BGS/PP.

Territorial possession. It is the the curse of humanity since the tribes of Ig* and Og* fought for control of a waterhole or foraging grounds..

* Disclaimer - no relation to anyone living or dead! Made them up!
 
Besides, if someone is covertly messing about with "your" BGS, then you access to the exact same levers that they do in order to counter the effects they're having.

Otherwise you might as well complain about how unfair it is that players in different timezones can influence the BGS while you're asleep and unable to counter it in that moment.
 
Besides, if someone is covertly messing about with "your" BGS, then you access to the exact same levers that they do in order to counter the effects they're having.

Otherwise you might as well complain about how unfair it is that players in different timezones can influence the BGS while you're asleep and unable to counter it in that moment.
Covert means that the perpetrators cannot be identified. This usually means not being in open, not updating Inara or using alts with no links to factions etc.

If you cannot identify who is doing unto you, you cannot retaliate.
 
Covert means that the perpetrators cannot be identified. This usually means not being in open, not updating Inara or using alts with no links to factions etc.

If you cannot identify who is doing unto you, you cannot retaliate.

You can still observe the effects and counter those. If someone is making a concerted effort then it should be obvious, otherwise how would the BGS gardeners even know that someone is pulling up their roses in order to complain about it?
 
You can still observe the effects and counter those. If someone is making a concerted effort then it should be obvious, otherwise how would the BGS gardeners even know that someone is pulling up their roses in order to complain about it?
Working on your own BGS to counteract disruption is a defensive measure, only reacting to enemy moves. Offensive action to disrupt the enemy is probably the best way to get them to stop.
 
Offensive action to disrupt the enemy is probably the best way to get them to stop.
Yes - though this, of course, is dependent on the enemy having something you can attack, which isn't required. [1]
Hence all the complaints about (Frontier setting up incentives so that) random players passing through are disrupting the influence levels.


Powerplay, sure, you can't attack someone's position without having territory of your own that the "Beyond Frontline Penalty" gives you at least a vague reason to care about.


[1] And as some groups have found, the risk of being so successful that your enemy no longer has anything left to defend is that they no longer need to spend time defending it.
 
Hence the desire for open only to have any/more effect on the BGS/PP.
Open only Powerplay; sure, whatever. That's the point of it.

Open only BGS? Dumb. That's like saying ship textures should be Open Only, or "the Empire" is Open only.

But I'll draw the line there, because that's straight into Hotel California.

PP is Competitive group vs group play.

BGS is not, no matter how much people try and make it a thing[1]. Competition implies balance, and the BGS is not balanced by design.

[1] to suggest otherwise is like suggesting RL elections exist exclusively for gambling, rather than for electing government officials... and moreover suggesting that it's "unfair" that one party is popular and the other isn't.
 
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For Powerplay 2 specifically there are some indicators of that - regardless of the effects on the wider playerbase.

1) In Powerplay 1, the number of Squadrons with pledged activity was about 250 per season (and very little variation between seasons). There's a more specific requirement on this leaderboard than most of the others - the individual gaining the PP actions has to match their squadron pledge - so that was always an underestimate; nevertheless, the figure two weeks into the current Squadron season, with the same restriction in PP2, is already over 1000 active squadrons and still rising. It'll be interesting to see where this settles longer-term, since the Thargoid war achieved a similar and somewhat long-term-sustained multiplier for the AX leaderboard participation.

2) The number of merits needed to shift a system to a new state is measured, and the number of systems in each state is published per cycle. So it's possible to get an estimate of the minimum number of merits earned by everyone during a week from the weekly changes, and this comes in at around 150-200 million merits [1] per cycle - not counting merits that are countered by the other side either locally or globally, not counting those wasted by over-capturing or losing an Acquisition fight, and relying on "big numbers" averaging to cover the case where a system is promoted or demoted gradually over multiple weeks. This metric is not dropping off at all yet (in fact, last week was the highest so far)

A reasonable estimate of mean merits per player per week based on the in-power leaderboards would be in the 10-20,000 [1] merits per week range (which will include weekly assignments which don't shift systems at all, but those were relatively small in previous weeks anyway). So that suggests a five-figure number of active players (hard to be more precise) which certainly beats CGs.

[1] Since from this week there's a large distinction, these are the system merits. Personal merits will now be 4x that or higher.


This is interesting, thank you - and I think the first attempt at a "clean system" test I've seen. If missions aren't having the normal effect that would certainly explain some things.

The slightly odd thing is that out in my monitoring of Colonia systems, everything seems basically normal - there are no runaway controlling factions (if anything they're down slightly), influence movements are all within the normal ranges, overall traffic levels do seem to be up a bit with the update too. So are missions only not working specifically in Powerplay-affected systems?
 
Yes, not been to Colonia for a while, but I don't think power play is out there which is why you will not see the same out there. The systems that are being problematic for us are ones with Powers present, esp. High Tech and Extraction economies, given they quickly went into boom following PP2, I expect that increased trade was the culprit, the systems did not shoot up just gradually increased over days. As the player spike drops off this has settled a little, but the easiest way to drop the systems back down (working missions for other factions) seemingly has no or little effect. I have a plan, but just waiting for thing to settle down a bit more.
 
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