Solution for Ganking

I think generally most people would like to play in the open but they also do not want to lose credits for being mindlessly ganked. Most ganking is just for the fun of it so I have a idea for a solution.
Create a module that changes the ship's signature to mimic an npc, giving the player a solid square instead of a hollow square on the radar. Gankers would have to scan your ship in order to see that "Cmdr" in the name. That would at least give players who just are trying to get in and out of a system a better chance of survival. This or have the system authority react much quicker and deadlier when wanted player is interdicting another.
 
I think generally most people would like to play in the open but they also do not want to lose credits for being mindlessly ganked. Most ganking is just for the fun of it so I have a idea for a solution.
Create a module that changes the ship's signature to mimic an npc, giving the player a solid square instead of a hollow square on the radar. Gankers would have to scan your ship in order to see that "Cmdr" in the name. That would at least give players who just are trying to get in and out of a system a better chance of survival. This or have the system authority react much quicker and deadlier when wanted player is interdicting another.
We have a solution its called Block and there's a million (slight exaggeration) threads on it.

O7
 
It's useless to suggest any solution to ganking because fdev have expressed quite clearly that they support the game style and intentionally will not do anything about it. Thus, any suggestions will fall on deaf ears.
 
Sure. Then there will be fits from those who want another module slot for this module, because why should they need to sacrifice an existing module slot...

Then WAT?! it's a size 5 module?!?! Then there will be fits from those who assumed it would be size 1, and that another size 1 module slot would also be included.

Then WAT?! The gankers are using the added slot for a combat module and wiping out the "hiders" * even faster??!!


* the term that quickly is adopted for users of this module, and thus itself went on to create another series of threads debating the plague of "hiderscrimination".

I'll leave the rest to the reader, but maybe we shouldn't have such a module...
 
Solution for ganking: don't fly paper ships.

Depends on what you mean by "paper ships". To make a decent cargo sized trade ship able to stand up to an alpha strike from a well kitted combat ship you'd probably need to put so much defences on it you'd have little room left for cargo.

My double shot frag Krait Mk2 puts out over 1300 DPS (note, Gimballed, if was fixed, would be higher). Sure, the alpha strike is over in that 1 second, but, but it can make a second strike a few seconds later after reload. All but the well kitted combat ships don't survive more than 2 volleys. Trade ships can go boom in just 1, even big elite ones.

My Gunship with OC frags does a bit more than that.

Or there's my all beam Corvette, and while the DPS isn't that high, it strips shields off even Elite NPCs in a few seconds. If thrusters targetted, then those can be taken in a few seconds as well.

Now, i'm not the best at combat, and yes, i'm only talking about the effect of my ships on NPCs, even if we are talking about Elite ones.

But let's be real here, against someone flying a murder boat, if you want a big heavy trader to fly, adding more defences isn't going to increases your chances very much, and its just going to gimp your cargo capacity to the point of it not being worth flying. In which case, might as well fly something like a Clipper, with a decent amount of cargo space, good ability to fight interdictions, and if interdicted, probably much faster boost than most combat ships. Properly built, it would still outpace a combat FdL by perhaps 100 m/s.

Problem is, especially with engineering, game just isn't balanced at all between combat and non-combat ships. Too easy to make non-combat ships go boom, while PvP combat between competent players just turns into a snooze fest.
 
Depends on what you mean by "paper ships". To make a decent cargo sized trade ship able to stand up to an alpha strike from a well kitted combat ship you'd probably need to put so much defences on it you'd have little room left for cargo.

My double shot frag Krait Mk2 puts out over 1300 DPS (note, Gimballed, if was fixed, would be higher). Sure, the alpha strike is over in that 1 second, but, but it can make a second strike a few seconds later after reload. All but the well kitted combat ships don't survive more than 2 volleys. Trade ships can go boom in just 1, even big elite ones.

My Gunship with OC frags does a bit more than that.

Or there's my all beam Corvette, and while the DPS isn't that high, it strips shields off even Elite NPCs in a few seconds. If thrusters targetted, then those can be taken in a few seconds as well.

Now, i'm not the best at combat, and yes, i'm only talking about the effect of my ships on NPCs, even if we are talking about Elite ones.

But let's be real here, against someone flying a murder boat, if you want a big heavy trader to fly, adding more defences isn't going to increases your chances very much, and its just going to gimp your cargo capacity to the point of it not being worth flying. In which case, might as well fly something like a Clipper, with a decent amount of cargo space, good ability to fight interdictions, and if interdicted, probably much faster boost than most combat ships. Properly built, it would still outpace a combat FdL by perhaps 100 m/s.

Problem is, especially with engineering, game just isn't balanced at all between combat and non-combat ships. Too easy to make non-combat ships go boom, while PvP combat between competent players just turns into a snooze fest.
Paper ships = stock ships, shieldless haulers (or small shields) skipping hull day and low resistances... with ship going 590+ can use 500-600mj base shields, with slower ships, need 1500mj base shields and 2k hull at least with MRPs (all with balanced resistances) + submit/HW with fast reboot FSD helps. There are counters for all that, but point is that flying "paper ships" (in open and popular spots) doesn't provide any mitigant to the risk of being kaboomed.
 
I think generally most people would like to play in the open but they also do not want to lose credits for being mindlessly ganked. Most ganking is just for the fun of it so I have a idea for a solution.
Create a module that changes the ship's signature to mimic an npc, giving the player a solid square instead of a hollow square on the radar. Gankers would have to scan your ship in order to see that "Cmdr" in the name. That would at least give players who just are trying to get in and out of a system a better chance of survival.
In terms of supercruise, this would be considerably worse for the defender than for the attacker.

Consider the current situation:
- you enter a system
- supercruise is already populated so you know there's someone about
- you can instantly see who it is, target them to get ship type (probably don't need to worry about that Type-9, might want to watch that Mamba a bit closer)
- sure, they can see you too, but you've at least got time to hit the SCO or ram the star or any other panic move to make you hard to intercept

If both parties have masking modules then it turns into this
- you enter a system
- supercruise is already populated so you know there's someone about
- there's 10 contacts on the radar and any of them could be a player
- good luck guessing which...

... but from the attacker's point of view
- you're hanging round in supercruise pointed at the primary star
- a ship drops out of hyperspace (and actually visually moves in from a distance, not just appears)
- your bandwidth monitor suddenly spikes
- well, that's the player, lock on, close in, and fire the interdictor before they've even realised you're there

In normal space it's not so skewed in favour of the attacker but they've still I think got the advantage.
 
I think generally most people would like to play in the open but they also do not want to lose credits for being mindlessly ganked. [...]
I don't think that's the case. It's more about the loss of (game-)time than the loss of credits.

If credits are the issue for you, you can level up in Powerplay to ignore most rebuys with the 100% cost reduction if killed in one of your systems or by somebody pledged to a different Power.
 
Powerplay 2 has taken steps by reducing rebuy to zero at high enough rank and in specific places and situations. Cargo/data loss still apply.
 
The solution for ganking is play on one of the larger PvE centric private groups, like Mobius, or AXI?

I absolutely cannot get my head around the ganker mentality, but it's a part of the game and to be expected in any online game with humans playing it. It seems embedded in a subset of the population to want to ruin everyone else's fun in the name of "role play", but it IS a part of the game, and we have various tools to mitigate such exposure for those that don't want it. The closest you'll get to a ganker-free open experience, is a large private group. Or, as others have suggested, make judicious use of the block feature when you do meet one in Open.
 
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I think generally most people would like to play in the open but they also do not want to lose credits for being mindlessly ganked. Most ganking is just for the fun of it so I have a idea for a solution.
Create a module that changes the ship's signature to mimic an npc, giving the player a solid square instead of a hollow square on the radar. Gankers would have to scan your ship in order to see that "Cmdr" in the name. That would at least give players who just are trying to get in and out of a system a better chance of survival.

Turning off/spoofing one's IFF shouldn't require a module, but I've always though it should be something we should be capable of. FDev, and much of the community apparently, disagree.

It would also only be a minor inconvenience to gankers and you can already hide your hollow square for much of a supercruise journey by shadowing an NPC sufficiently closely. Of course, once targeted the jig is up.

This or have the system authority react much quicker and deadlier when wanted player is interdicting another.

They can already stretch the bounds of credulity in response time and the most potent extant security forces already have hardware CMDRs cannot match. There is no way to make them fast or powerful enough to provide reliable protection, if they can only respond once an attack has been launch.

Policing cannot be a deterrent as long as consequence are negligible and cannot be a defense unless policing takes initiative gets proactive. Neither of these are likely--the community is profoundly consequence adverse and Frontier is unlikely to treat CMDR on CMDR ganking significantly differently from CMDR on NPC ganking, which most every does at some point. Likewise, NPCs have little persistence, and a new system to enable them to effectively preempt attacks is probably not practical at this point in the game.

Launch your fighter, they hate that.

I won't personally use SLFs while other CMDRs are present, without their permission, due to Frontier never fully addressing the bug they introduced back in 3.4.

That said, this bug is unlikely to crop up over the duration of an interdiction against a trade ship and the SLF is pretty much the only way to have some offsensive capability, outside of ramming, while hardpoints are retracted and spooling one's FSD. The SLF models with a PDT can also be sent after likely dumbfire users to reduce the odds that an FSD reboot munition makes it to target. Of course that presumes there is enough time, but there usually is not.

Depends on what you mean by "paper ships". To make a decent cargo sized trade ship able to stand up to an alpha strike from a well kitted combat ship you'd probably need to put so much defences on it you'd have little room left for cargo.

My shieldless T-9 can survive encounters with most gankers in fully kitted Python Mk-2 frag boats, and it carries more than 700 tons of cargo.

Shields are the problem with defense. Of the ships typically used for cargo, only the Cutter and Anaconda get a more favorable cargo vs. defense ratio from shielding. Essentially every other ship is better off focusing on hull, countermeasures, and mobility, if they want to carry the most cargo with the most protection.

Paper ships = stock ships, shieldless haulers (or small shields) skipping hull day and low resistances... with ship going 590+ can use 500-600mj base shields, with slower ships, need 1500mj base shields and 2k hull at least with MRPs (all with balanced resistances) + submit/HW with fast reboot FSD helps.

I would rather be able to go silent the moment I submit, have multiple PDTs, an ECM, and heatsink launcher...backed by ~5k hull with high resists and an MRP to protect my shielded/armored internals...than token shielding which eats into a hundred more tons of cargo capacity and requires me to try to dodge Grom Bombs in a T-9.

Also - not a solution to ganking - solution to meeting other players while playing in Open ...

There is always Local chat, if one wants to see if someone else is around.
 
Paper ships = stock ships, shieldless haulers (or small shields) skipping hull day and low resistances... with ship going 590+ can use 500-600mj base shields, with slower ships, need 1500mj base shields and 2k hull at least with MRPs (all with balanced resistances) + submit/HW with fast reboot FSD helps. There are counters for all that, but point is that flying "paper ships" (in open and popular spots) doesn't provide any mitigant to the risk of being kaboomed.

My point was, even if you're not flying a paper ship, if its a big hauling ship, doesn't really matter if you go to all those lengths to add defence, you're still going boom before you can even high wake, so might as well not even bother. Have more cargo space. The chances of getting ganked are pretty low, so reap the benefit while you can, and then the occasional gank you're still way ahead than you would be if you had sacrificed cargo space for bigger shields and HRPs/MRPs/SCBs.
 
Shields are the problem with defense. Of the ships typically used for cargo, only the Cutter and Anaconda get a more favorable cargo vs. defense ratio from shielding. Essentially every other ship is better off focusing on hull, countermeasures, and mobility, if they want to carry the most cargo with the most protection.
How much shielding would be sufficient ? My T9 runs with 993 MJ raw and good resistances, my T8 with 1234 MJ raw and good resistances. Both are fully dedicated cargo ships with max capacity. I don't fly open though.
 
you're still going boom before you can even high wake

I'm pretty sure Rebel Yell's CMDR would survive, more often than not.

The chances of getting ganked are pretty low, so reap the benefit while you can, and then the occasional gank you're still way ahead than you would be if you had sacrificed cargo space for bigger shields and HRPs/MRPs/SCBs.

Personally, I won't play a character that just assumes he's going to survive every ship loss, so avoiding ship loss is something I prioritize much more highly than cargo delivered, CG placing, BGS conflicts, credits, or almost anything else in-game...except those times I am setting my character aside to do wholly out of character testing/experimentation, in which case none of that other stuff matters either. I mean, my CMDR is willing to take risks, but without breaking that forth wall, there is a big difference between knowing the ejection-microjump sequence is very reliable, and knowing it will literally never allow anyone to come to harm. I know the latter is true, but my CMDR cannot.

How much shielding would be sufficient ? My T9 runs with 993 MJ raw and good resistances, my T8 with 1234 MJ raw and good resistances. Both are fully dedicated cargo ships with max capacity. I don't fly open though.

That ship would likely survive one pass of a frag boat, if you're moving evasively. The problem is that you (and your subsystems) can be targeted right away, for optimal convergence, and if they have FSD disruptors, you are probably going to catch one as they have a lead indicator and you don't have PDTs.

Most gankers suck and you'd probably survive one encounter, but someone competent catches you while you're flying those configs, its a rebuy screen, unless you're very lucky. Only the best gankers aren't slowed down by not being able to target their opponents, which is why I don't like shields on most of my traders...I can't use them if I'm silent, and there often aren't any utilities to spare for heatsinks.
 
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I'm pretty sure Rebel Yell's CMDR would survive, more often than not.



Personally, I won't play a character that just assumes he's going to survive every ship loss, so avoiding ship loss is something I prioritize much more highly than cargo delivered, CG placing, BGS conflicts, credits, or almost anything else in-game...except those times I am setting my character aside to do wholly out of character testing/experimentation, in which case none of that other stuff matters either. I mean, my CMDR is willing to take risks, but without breaking that forth wall, there is a big difference between knowing the ejection-microjump sequence is very reliable, and knowing it will literally never allow anyone to come to harm. I know the latter is true, but my CMDR cannot.



That ship would likely survive one pass of a frag boat, if you're moving evasively. The problem is that you (and your subsystems) can be targeted right away, for optimal convergence, and if they have FSD disruptors, you are probably going to catch one as they have a lead indicator and you don't have PDTs.

Most gankers suck and you'd probably survive one encounter, but someone competent catches you while you're flying those configs, its a rebuy screen, unless you're very lucky. Only the best gankers aren't slowed down by not being able to target their opponents, which is why I don't like shields on most of my traders...I can't use them if I'm silent, and there often aren't any utilities to spare for heatsinks.

Could you post some builds, via Coriolis or similar?

My cmdr is an open only trader/smuggler and I've always ran shields but maybe I don't need to?

Of course, you could consider that once you've been interdicted you've already lost - the skill is avoiding being interdicted in the first place.

I think the best way to survive in Open is to practice avoiding interdictions and learning how to high wake.

Sadly this advice to some seems to be a "gitgud har har", but quite frankly I have always seen ganks and the like as challenges to overcome rather than a reason not to play in Open, certainly NPCs provide zero challenge.
 
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